What Is Your Response If Someone Were To Ask You If Your Pam Is The Real Deal?

[rt2]

Hi all, I know a lot of talk here is on the quality of the reps and parts and such but I had 2 groups of questions to ask to delve into the mind of the rep owner and I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

1) For folks who have both gen and fake pams/watches

- Do you still wear your fakes after you got the gens? Assuming the gens came later yuh.

- Do you think the fakes somehow degrade the value of the gens you have? Eg. if someone were to know you wear reps they could have a base assumption that all your watches are reps

2) As there is a vibrant community for panerai and they tend to want to speak to others that wear pams, if a paneristi were to come up and speak to you and you had a rep on, what would you do?

- Would you flaunt your rep knowing that it has been modded so that its undetectable and pass it off as a gen?

- Would you say its a rep, say that you're wearing it as you can't afford the real thing for now? Laugh it off and dazzle them with your knowledge of panerais and SEs

- Would you play it cool and not engage in further conversation and exit when the chance presents itself?

what would your reaction be?

I guess these questions extend beyond pam reps but just wanted to know what the thoughts are for lurkers and posters here. I have put on my flame proof oversized undies in case some people think this doesn't belong here. Thanks

[t]

1. if you have the real deal... you will not like the rep

2. yes it is genuine... genuine replica

[jonthebhoy]

As always..............."Reproduction"

[namor]

I my over 10 Years meanwhile of rep-wearing/collecting I learned to keep cool and relaxed...

From perhaps 10 guys who call your watch a rep only 1 knows (and even that guy is not sure) what to look for.

It's just human nature - people can't stand it seeing you with a Rollie and wearing a Seiko themselves. That's the whole Problem. It's this ugly feeling of envy, partially resulted from knowing not enough about watches - very very few people know that almost everyone can buy a real Rollie ! Just go into your AD and they will sell you one with affordable monthly rates, after let's say 3 years it's yours. Finito. That easy.

I don't know what people think when you say Rollie - they seem to really think it costs 100K+ each...

So wearing a rep, always be prepared to be "called out" - and it's really amusing meanwhile. I immediately ask what the giveaway should be ? Either they just smile in a silly way and just tell something like "You really spent THAT much money for a watch ?" - then I tell them that you can buy a used one for example for about 1.500,- USD - "Whoa ! Really ? I thought they're much more expensive !".

OR

They start telling you about flaws which just don't exist - that's the funniest, and easiest to react...

Then they're different types of buyers/collectors.

Watchlovers - they love gens and reps because they respect the style, quality and craftmanship of both in relation to their value.

Gen-lovers - mostly they just don't like the idea of having trouble and issues with reps and fear being called out.

Brand-lovers - paneristi for example, they militantly are against reps, unimportant which way you argue - it's a kind of arrogance. I think most of them haven't just realized that their favourite brands just do the same like "our" factories - but with better quality and QC. But is this worth several grands ? Sometimes yes - sometimes no...

I think "rep-lovers" are the same like "watchlovers" - many of us do have gens or plan to buy some in future. The point is just that we can get 10 watches here for the price of one gen.

So coming back to your question: at the end of the day I always tell that it is a Replica - but I always try to figure out for what reason I was asked.

[V]

1) For folks who have both gen and fake pams/watches

- Do you still wear your fakes after you got the gens? Assuming the gens came later yuh.

- Do you think the fakes somehow degrade the value of the gens you have? Eg. if someone were to know you wear reps they could have a base assumption that all your watches are reps

- Yes I still wear my reps... But I kept the higher quality ones (frankens)

- You are right.. They degrade the value to the people who knew me (not the close friends and family).. But if they ask I tell them the truth.. some of them they believe me some of them not..

The most important thing though is that I KNOW it is a gen.. And I enjoy looking at it when I wear it.

At the end .. who cares what other people say? As long as you enjoy what you wear

[t]

the biggest problem is- when you say it is a rep -all people think it is a $30 watch

if you say it is a rep but worth some hundret $$$... they will not belive you

best is to say NOTHING... it was a gift

[Watchmeister]

I actually can't imagine anyone asking. Except if you have no business wearing an expensive watch in real life. One time I sat down with a chairman of a company in a 1 on 1 meeting who was wearing the gold gen of a rep I was wearing. I said nothing until he commented nice watch. I then told him about the watch and rep collecting. Ended up in a long conversation on the rep industry. He was very interested in a constructive manner in spite of the fact that he is chairman and of a large branded consumer products company. I bought mine for $110. He paid $18,000 after a good night at the baccarat table. It was the FM Vegas. It did look a lot nicer in 18k - but not $17,900 better.

I was glad that I own a few gens though. That way I could say my credo with a straight face - A rep is not a rep. A watch is a watch.

[ubiquitous]

I always just tell the truth...

I built this watch.

That always piques the interest and intrigue of whomever I am talking with, seguing into discussion of the how's the why's and so on, and usually ends with that person asking...

Can you build me one?

[rt2]

Hi everyone thanks for the replies. They are very interesting indeed. I have no reps so far and was thinking of buying one which explains my presence in these forums. I am still undecided but am happy to learn more about the different watch collecting experience with reps and franken watches. Cheers

Oh and ubiquitous, how do I build me a watch?

[blackseal]

"Watchlovers - they love gens and reps because they respect the style, quality and craftmanship of both in relation to their value."

thats it. namor wrote this.

that is the great difference between us and the most people who wear "cheap fakes" to impress someone else. those guys have a lot in common with conceited gen holders... (or is "hoity-toity" the right word ? almost a funny word) they even don´t know how their watch works.

a friend of mine is watchmaker. he really frets about customers with high graded mechanical watches and chrongraphs who don´t even know what they can do with their watch. he often had advised a quartz watch to someone like that...

in germany we call this "perlen vor die säue". in free translation it means something like "to throw pearls before swine"...

so its a decision for quality and style and not for reputation. my blackseal would be the same to me either when there are no engravings on it.

so lets build up our own watch. the perfect watch ;-)

has anyone a concept how this watch should look ?

[HauteHippie]

I like to play with these people who just have to ask, and typically respond "You tell me" while moving my wrist towards them so they can get a better look.

[flavor flav]

i'm trying to think of a rep i own that i have not modded or built from parts so i always give the randy answer "i built this" "it's custom made from original and aftermarket parts" they always ask me how much $$$ to build them one

[fishgodeep]

I tend to find that people are actually interested to learn about the incredible mark-ups within the supply chain of genuine luxury goods.

When you consider that a genuine $5000 RRP PAM contains maybe $300 of materials , $300 of COSC testing, approx $300 labour and the reseller purchases for maybe $2800 direct from OP , simple maths tells you some one is making a lot of money.

The fact that authorised dealers exist only in the most elite of shopping areas , where rents rates etc will be astronomical, they need to make a lot of money per item.

It's the "location , location , location " rule that's key to a brands success and maintaining Elite status..........much more than TV advertising etc for these Ultra rich brands.

The incentive to maintain pricing across the globe ( there is very little free competition between dealers) all smacks of Cartel like activity and is simply not permitted in most industries.

Money attracts money , so the people with the money to buy genuine, will also either be in position to or influence the right decision for these brands - be that by ignoring price fixing and cartel like activity , strengthening anti-counterfeit laws in their favour etc.

All that said, the genuine article is the genuine article and any rep, copy , fake reproduction etc cannot be anything more than what it is. You are only trying to fool yourself if you think or say otherwise, regardless of quality , % close to gen etc.

Reps only exist because of this huge profit margin that is open for exploitation and always will be.

I certainly wouldn't have a collection of 20 reps with work to do on them that lead me here if I had the millions of spare cash for an uber rich lifestyle - I'd be the genuine brands target customer because I would be attracted to the areas where the genuine dealers would be waiting to help me part with my cash.

All of this debate rep/ gen for me really boils down to human behaviour and class systems that have existed ever since records began.....

I think mister Rolex himself said something like ..." If you want to tell the time get a Timex ....If you want to tell the world you're here get a Rolex"

We are all here in part because we are waiting for our next ride on the "class elevator" ....up preferably.

Any badge of status that will help get to the front of the queue (or fool accordingly) and go to the next floor or two is legitimate.

That's why we ain't wearing Timex

Fishgodeep