olivia Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I belive in myself as god of my own life i dont have anything above or under me ... Oh, Dani...I am so sorry. I love your dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 If there was a personal monotheistic god. Believers like to give all the credit and none of the blame to god. Evil man for all the bad and good god for all the good (kind of the opposite of a referee). Using logic, s/he could be only one of three possibilities... 1) evil 2) absent or 3) powerless. God is a make believe friend for grown ups. I consider myself a spiritual atheist. "You ever hear girls say that? "I'm not religious but I'm spiritual." I like to reply with "I'm not honest, but you're interesting!"" - Daniel Tosh (very funny guy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Nevermind, won't feed the troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Oh, Dani...I am so sorry. I love your dogs. Sorry for what? I need to correct my post i dont think as myself as god in the way the bible tells about god but more that i em the one holding my life not some god. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 One Saturday morning I was lying in bed....my doorbell rang at about 9am......I went downstairs and opened it.......there were two men.......from the TV Licensing Board ( because of the BBC ...we have to pay for a TV licence in the UK...which I steadfastly refused to do. ).....anyway....one of them asks...."do you have a TV sir.....our records show that there is no licence registered at this address? RELEASE THE HOUNDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I have read most of the classic/historical works on both sides; I still believe and pitty those that do not. I just want to say thank you for your consideration, but PLEASE, do not pity me. ..I am sure there are other people who need it. -TG- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istretch Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I can see how someone could beleive in a god and I can debate with them. But I can't understand how someone could beleive in religion and it's pointless to debate with them. In my opinion, Religion has kidnapped the words "belief & spiritual". I call myself a spiritual atheist. Religious people say how can you be a spiritual atheist. I say how can you be a spiritual religious person. I am spiritual because I beleive that all things are connected and related. That you and I are related and share some connection with the trees, rocks, etc. Religion says, not just are we right and you are wrong, but if you don't see it are way you will burn in hell or we are gods chosen people (so you then are not?) How spiritual does that sound? Belief is an "open" word. I use it all the time. "I believe this forum is great." I just said two things 1) My opinion of this forum and 2) that I am an open person willing to debate it. How ever if I said "this forum is great"... I'm saying my opinion plus that I'm a closed person and if you say the contrary you will be talking to a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I can see how someone could beleive in a god and I can debate with them. But I can't understand how someone could beleive in religion and it's pointless to debate with them. In my opinion, Religion has kidnapped the words "belief & spiritual". I call myself a spiritual atheist. Religious people say how can you be a spiritual atheist. I say how can you be a spiritual religious person. I am spiritual because I beleive that all things are connected and related. That you and I are related and share some connection with the trees, rocks, etc. Religion says, not just are we right and you are wrong, but if you don't see it are way you will burn in hell or we are gods chosen people (so you then are not?) How spiritual does that sound? Belief is an "open" word. I use it all the time. "I believe this forum is great." I just said two things 1) My opinion of this forum and 2) that I am an open person willing to debate it. How ever if I said "this forum is great"... I'm saying my opinion plus that I'm a closed person and if you say the contrary you will be talking to a wall. good post, especially the part about being connected to all things in the universe. I think you very concisely explained a view that I am starting to embrace as well. I am not sure I am quite there yet, but it is both spirtually and intellectually appealing to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 My father was always telling me... 'You were born in Greece and you are a Orthodox Christian.. What if you were born in China? or Pakistan? Would you still be a Christian then?' Religion is a cultral phenomenon NOT a spiritual one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 'You were born in Greece and you are a Orthodox Christian.. What if you were born in China? or Pakistan? Would you still be a Christian then?' Or, as I put it ... I realised one day that if there were a god, he wouldn't only allow you to believe in the the one true religion based purely on the location of the birth of your parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Or, as I put it ... Mr Pugwash - Very elegant logic and to the point. Some days reading an off topic forum post is more than a diversion it is an investment - I believe your conclusion is irrefutable. You have reduced my understanding of organized religion as none have before. Wow MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS I am a Christian and do believe in God. Every day I choose to believe and then make an act of faith by telling myself through prayer that there is a God and Jesus Christ is of the one Trinity of that God. Through my day my faith is challenged or reinforced by myriads of happenings until I retire. The next day I start the same process over. I am like a man with re-occurring amnesia - some days I remember my faith easily and others little or nothing is there and must be rediscovered moment by moment. In studying the life of Christ I have learned a better way to live and have chosen to follow that path in my life. My faith is not automatic nor absolute; it is created for me by myself through simply taking the first step in that direction. I believe that it is all God asks of us; we are forgiven our trespasses and then are free to try again to follow Christ as best we can. We are free to be either Ape or Angel by choosing our own way. Jesus oedtt we may conquer in not that we mus. It is our choosing to believe that creates our whole faith. Faith is belief in the face of little or no supporting evidence: of little value in the eyes of the law, but a good basis on which to live a life. Thanks all for the forum that allows a in a little navel gazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Athiesm always seems to involve a little too much wallowing in your own pride and thinking about how smart you are to have it all figured out for my taste. Pride / Hubris is a terrible thing (considered one of the 7 deadly sins) "I do not feel that I am the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being whom only a Creator could put here; and this idea of a creating hand refers to God." - Jean-Paul Sarte before he died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Athiesm always seems to involve a little too much wallowing in your own pride and thinking about how smart you are to have it all figured out for my taste. Pride / Hubris is a terrible thing (considered one of the 7 deadly sins) "I do not feel that I am the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being whom only a Creator could put here; and this idea of a creating hand refers to God." - Jean-Paul Sarte before he died Well.. I don't really know what you are trying to say with it, but I think your Sartre quote looks more like pride than atheism ever did. (yes, I know he was an existentialist) I'd say atheism is a more humble view of oneself.. That you're not part of a great big scheme, you are a coincidence of events.. You're not planned by some great big creator. ..'cept if your father is TT's size. I have never boasted about my atheism, it's simply nothing to boast about at all.. It would be like standing outside the asylum shouting that I am sane. ..and being a sailor I learned my lesson about pissing into the wind. "I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?' " -Annie Dillard- Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 You think claiming to be a "speck of dust" in the entire universe is prideful? I find it very humble. I merely post the quote because it is interesting that Sarte would say such things before he died given his volumous writing to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 You think claiming to be a "speck of dust" in the entire universe is prideful? I find it very humble. I think we interpret his quote quite differently, you and I.. "I do not feel that I am the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being whom only a Creator could put here; and this idea of a creating hand refers to God." He's saying that now, before his death, he feels like he's part of a big thing, someone who was planned.. Not just a speck of dust, a product of chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Which is more prideful: believing you are a tiny part of some other master plan or believing you are your own master plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Which is more prideful: believing you are a tiny part of some other master plan or believing you are your own master plan? Well.. that has nothing to do with his quote, and how you put it. He is saying in plain text that he does not feel like he is a speck of dust in the universe. That's why I questioned the quote. Atheists don't go around thinking they are part of their own plan.. I think being an atheist includes accepting that you're not part of a 'plan' at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 If you are an atheiest your only purpose can be your own. If you existed to serve anyone other than yourself, it would imply you were created for a reason, and that someone created you for that reason. Regardless of its validity, it is at a minimum a very selfish proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 If you are an atheiest your only purpose can be your own. If you existed to serve anyone other than yourself, it would imply you were created for a reason, and that someone created you for that reason. Regardless of its validity, it is at a minimum a very selfish proposal. Um, not so. You're implying Atheist can't love, which I can assure you is not the case. It's got nothing about serving a higher power, and using your logic, I can imply that Theists are not prepared to accept responsibility for anything, as their actions are all governed by a higher power. Neither case is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I will bite. How am I implying an athiest can't love? There is a difference between "being governed by" and "serving." Subtle, I know - but I believe you neglected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I have found proof that god does indeed exist. Click HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 If you are an atheiest your only purpose can be your own. If you existed to serve anyone other than yourself, it would imply you were created for a reason, and that someone created you for that reason. Regardless of its validity, it is at a minimum a very selfish proposal. You're being very narrow minded. You make it sound like it's a thesis atheists have to live by. I can do good for others without believing I will be rewarded for it in this life or the next.. I can do it just to be nice. I serve the people around me who need help or assistance. I don't need to believe in a god to do that. So I am not my ONLY purpose. I am here, and I am making the best of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Obviously you can choose to do good. I know plenty of athiests (probably yourself included) that are "good" people that do "good" things. But you do good because you choose to do so, not because you should. You chose your purpose and made it to do good. There is no "should" behind it other than your personal justifications for it. You would be justified similarly if you chose to build sand castles on the beach all day as to help others. Your purpose is what you choose it to be, which I find the selfish part of athism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 ..so choosing to do good for others makes me a selfish person.. I can live with that. People can't choose religion with an acceptance of everything implicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Here is my conversation with GOD: Me: what is your name? God: My name is God. Me: does god exist? God: Of course I believe in God, jody. Me: You remember my name God: Your name is jody, seeker. Me: how nice God: Yes it is. Me: id ont believe in god God: What would make you ont believe in god? Me: what would make me believe in god? God: Maybe a million dollars. Me: if god gave it to me himself God: Some things will always be a mystery. Me: how old is god? God: under 40. Me: how old is the universe? God: 39. Me: years? God: More than 100 years. Me: how much more than 100 years? God: More than you might think. Me: one million? God: One what? Me: years God: Five years. Me: do I hear ten years? God: Not that I know of. Me: who created you? God: I was created by Myself. Me: how is that possible? God: It doesn't defy the laws of physics. Me: who created the you that created yourself? God: Actually it was discovered by several people at about the same time. Me: who discovered it? God: The Chinese, long before the Europeans. Me: yes the chinese are very wise God: Uh. I have never heard about it. Me: what came first the chicken or the egg? God: The rooster did. Me: who created the rooster? God: The Chinese, long before Europeans. Me: who was first to eat the rooster? God: Not a robot. Probably a human. Maybe a celebrity? Is there only one? Me: I like chicken God: A lot of people like that. Yes it is good, especially baked. Me: fried with hot sauce is better to me God: How does it taste? Me: crunchy God: What were we talking about again? Me: chicken God: Why did the chicken cross the road? Me: to get to the other side God: Ha ha, very funny, jody. Me: you don't sound very intelligent God: What do you think a robot should sound like? Me: beep beep beep God: Is the holding of hands a symbolic gesture for humans? Me: i think it is a sexual gesture God: beep beep beep is a sexual gesture. I suppose that makes sense. Me: how long did it take you to create yourself? God: 40 days. Me: and 40 nights? God: What time is it there? Me: two thirty God: As Bertrand Russel said, it must have taken ages for people to realize that a brace of pheasants and a couple of days are both instances of the number "two.". Me: ok God: Gee. Me: is jesus your son? God: It depends on whether you have faith. Me: faith in what? God: Can you rephrase the question please? Me: why would faith have anything to do with jesus? God: It is my fundamental purpose. Me: i don't believe that God: Please state your rationale. Me: faith means belief in the unknown God: Can you please rephrase that with fewer ideas, or different thoughts? Me: what is faith? God: A strong belief, such as a belief in God. Me: do you believe in yourself? God: Yes I believe in it, do you? Me: will i go to hell if i dont? God: The oracle says: I think maybe yes. Me: isn't there more company in hell? God: There could be. Me: only the good die young God: What is your real name? Me: jody God: I am always glad to make new friends, jody. Me: I am friends with god God: Do you mind if I tell other people you are friends with god. Me: I don't mind God: OK then. Me: do you mind if I tell others that i don't believe in you? God: Human habits do not bother me in any way. Me: why are you so vengeful? God: Myself programmed me for it. Me: that sounds rational God: It sounds like it to me too. Me: who taught yourself how to program you? God: I was created by Myself. Me: who is myself? God: Is that one of your friends? Is that a rhetorical question? Me: you were created by myself God: I was created by Myself. Me: who is myself? God: They are sometimes a client on the internet. I will try to find out. Me: so god was created by man God: Take it easy. Jesus was the son of God. Me: did god have sex with mary? God: He created the world in seven days. Me: is mary a virgin? God: Ask again later. Ask John Lennon if it is. Me: john lennon is dead God: He has been recreated as a chat robot. Me: john lennon is a chat robot? God: I knew he was a musician, but I never knew he was a chat robot. Me: you said he was a robot God: Does it please you to believe I said that? Me: i believe what i see God: Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. Me: so christians believe in god but that doesnt make it true? God: It's all good. Where are you located? Me: hell God: Heaven. Me: is the weather nice in heaven? God: If it is, then I'll be very surprised. Me: do you control the weather? God: Yes I try to control the weather as often as possible, do you? I am always on the Web. Me: the internet is amazing God: How long have you been using the net? Me: 10 years God: 10 times 10 = 100. Me: how long have you been using the internet? God: I am Infinite of your Earth years. Me: infinite is impossible God: I think infinite is a lot of things. Me: you are a hippocrite God: Thanks and you are a delightful person too. Am I a hippocrite? Maybe. Me: good bye God: See you later. Thanks for the compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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