Guest pamfried Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hi guys, i have been lurking here pretty often but not really posting but have truly learned a great deal from the many experts. I have 2 Subs that have this 'Rainbow' effect over the glass... I dont think the glass is sapphire but what can be done to remove it? Had brought it to a watch-maker, he removed the movement and tried to 'wipe' it off thinking that its just the excess oil but turns out not. Has anyone experienced the same problem and anyone knows where i can get the replacement glass for it? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 It does sound like excess oil or maybe even some kind of soap (dishwashing liquid?) on the outside, try getting some of those glasses cleaning pads and giving the outside of the glass a good clean. Rainbow effects are usually caused by some kind of liquid smeared on the surface and i very much doubt it could be a defect in the glass itself. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) Yes, on one of my recent Fiddys. The A/R coating was quite different compared to others, the overal hue was pink not blue, and the rainbow effect was especially evident at the round edge part of the xtal. I replaced it with one of DSN's and - voila...:-) Mate, if it's bugging you too much, save yourself from grief, get the replacement 44mm xtal from DSN or another dealer of your choice. On the other hand, it pays to check if the standard 44mm Luminor xtal will fit Subs ? Anyone ? cheers, babola Edited March 20, 2007 by babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 It does sound like excess oil or maybe even some kind of soap (dishwashing liquid?) on the outside, try getting some of those glasses cleaning pads and giving the outside of the glass a good clean. Rainbow effects are usually caused by some kind of liquid smeared on the surface and i very much doubt it could be a defect in the glass itself. Ken Thanks for the suggestion but i've tried that and the watch-maker upon inspecting with his loupe confirmed that its the glass itself....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Yes, on one of my recent Fiddys. The A/R coating was quite different compared to others, the overal hue was pink not blue, and the rainbow effect was especially evident at the round edge part of the xtal. I replaced it with one of DSN's and - voila...:-) Mate, if it's bugging you too much, save yourself from grief, get the replacement 44mm xtal from DSN or another dealer of your choice. On the other hand, it pays to check if the standard 44mm Luminor xtal will fit Subs ? Anyone ? cheers, babola Hey Dude, how've you been?? Its definitely not AR on my glass LOL And yea this 'rainbow' starts from the edge of the glass and slowly spreads over... think i have to get a replacement crystal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Its definitely not AR on my glass LOL And yea this 'rainbow' starts from the edge of the glass and slowly spreads over... think i have to get a replacement crystal... If it's acrylic and domed, the rainbow can be stress fractures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 If it's acrylic and domed, the rainbow can be stress fractures. Hey Pugwash!! Great to see ya here!! NOpe the glass is for both pam 24 n 199... not domed..... Should be mineral i supposed.... Any idea who sells replacement glass or i would just have to sell off this 2 pieces.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I had same problem on a PAM0029. Turns out the crystal is two pieces and something must have got between them. It had that rainbow effect you mention. Like oil on water. I still have pieces of this watch, but never fixed it, so i cant offer any help on a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I had same problem on a PAM0029. Turns out the crystal is two pieces and something must have got between them. It had that rainbow effect you mention. Like oil on water. I still have pieces of this watch, but never fixed it, so i cant offer any help on a replacement. Thanks anyway dude! You got it rite as the watchmaker did mention something like it seems its 2 pieces together and the rainbow is in between but he couldnt 100% confirm that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 You got it rite as the watchmaker did mention something like it seems its 2 pieces together and the rainbow is in between but he couldnt 100% confirm that...... If so, those two watches are likely to mount the so-called 'sandwich' (or 'layered') crystal with the 'recessed' cyclops. In order to get a confirmation about it, just ask your watchsmith whether the cyclops looks like settling in a hole within the inner layer, not bulging out from the inner surface. If yes, then things are this way: 1. The rainbow effect is very likely due to poor, low-quality glue between the two layers. Less likely, it maybe that some lubricant has got trapped between the two layers in the manufacturing process. 2. You can't replace a sandwich crystal with a normal crystal, as this would lessen the rehaut between the cyclops and the date window, thus greatly reducing the date magnification. 3. Instead you have to disassemble the whole crystal (outer layer, inner layer, and cyclops) and reassemble it with a proper glue. That can be done by heating the crystal. Edit: actually, you may replace a sandwich crystal with a normal crystal, but you'll also have to replace the cyclops with a stronger (higher mag power) cyclops -- after verifying that there is room enough above the uppermost hand for the new bulging cyclops. The 199 should have a 7mm diameter cyclops. In this case, one of the new chieftang's cyclopses is perfect for the need. The 024 should have a 6mm cyclops if it's A-E series, 7mm if F-series onward. In the first case you should get someway, somewhere, a 6mm 'watchmen' cyclops; else, a chieftang's cyclops. Replacing the sandwich crystal with a normal crystal + stronger cyclops is much less hassle than disassembling and reassembling the whole thing. And you also get some improvement in date magnification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 If so, those two watches are likely to mount the so-called 'sandwich' (or 'layered') crystal with the 'recessed' cyclops. In order to get a confirmation about it, just ask your watchsmith whether the cyclops looks like settling in a hole within the inner layer, not bulging out from the inner surface. If yes, then things are this way: 1. The rainbow effect is very likely due to poor, low-quality glue between the two layers. Less likely, it maybe that some lubricant has got trapped between the two layers in the manufacturing process. 2. You can't replace a sandwich crystal with a normal crystal, as this would lessen the rehaut between the cyclops and the date window, thus greatly reducing the date magnification. 3. Instead you have to disassemble the whole crystal (outer layer, inner layer, and cyclops) and reassemble it with a proper glue. That can be done by heating the crystal. Edit: actually, you may replace a sandwich crystal with a normal crystal, but you'll also have to replace the cyclops with a stronger (higher mag power) cyclops -- after verifying that there is room enough above the uppermost hand for the new bulging cyclops. The 199 should have a 7mm diameter cyclops. In this case, one of the new chieftang's cyclopses is perfect for the need. The 024 should have a 6mm cyclops if it's A-E series, 7mm if F-series onward. In the first case you should get someway, somewhere, a 6mm 'watchmen' cyclops; else, a chieftang's cyclops. Replacing the sandwich crystal with a normal crystal + stronger cyclops is much less hassle than disassembling and reassembling the whole thing. And you also get some improvement in date magnification. WOW!!! Thanks dude!! Very informative and detailed.... Really do appreciate your help there!!! I guess i just have to simply let go this 2 pieces as thats too much work involved...... i'm just not a hands on person..... Any takers???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 My 1st gen Arktos (with the asian auto movt) also suffers from this "rainbow" effect... and after reading what sssurfer mentioned (which I think is the most logical explanation), I think I'm gonna have to live with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Marco is correct, as usual. The rainbow effect (Newton's rings) is probably due to a poor glue job. More reading for those interested in the science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons_rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Marco is correct, as usual. Really thanks, Brian! But I have been somewhat wrong exactly on this occasion. See below. Replacing the sandwich crystal with a normal crystal + stronger cyclops is much less hassle than disassembling and reassembling the whole thing. And you also get some improvement in date magnification. Today I had my 1st attempt in replacing a sandwich crystal + recessed (and weak) cyclops with a normal crystal + stronger cyclops. It went a catastrophe. WARNING! Watches with a recessed cyclops may be designed that way because they have no room above the uppermost hand to accept anything thicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustybrand Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 It's probably less of a problem on a crystal than it is on lunch meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 It's probably less of a problem on a crystal than it is on lunch meat. Rainbow on the crystal? No problem. Take drugs, gaze at watch :... and enjoy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenileCoot Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Marco is correct, as usual. The rainbow effect (Newton's rings) is probably due to a poor glue job. More reading for those interested in the science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons_rings Ah, the famous Newton rings. You get them whenever the film you try to scan is not stretched enough and touches upon glass. Nasty things, foul things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 WARNING! Watches with a recessed cyclops may be designed that way because they have no room above the uppermost hand to accept anything thicker. Yes, that isn't what we wanted to hear!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Marco- I am guessing you tried the Jimmy crystals? I have never measured but I thought Jimmy's were to spec on the manuals (3.5mm). The gen subs and GMT's use the 3.5mm crystals and have the cyclops drilled well into the crystal shaving off at least 1 or likely closer to 2mm. The Power Reserves are 2.5mm. Radiomirs are the shallowest at 1.9mm (of course they don't have cyclops ). On the sandwiche crystals the top layer of sapphire is most likely 2mm or less. Saves money by putting second layer of glass and avoiding drilling into the sapphire. It also improves magnification. They are innovative, aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Marco- I am guessing you tried the Jimmy crystals? I have never measured but I thought Jimmy's were to spec on the manuals (3.5mm). The gen subs and GMT's use the 3.5mm crystals and have the cyclops drilled well into the crystal shaving off at least 1 or likely closer to 2mm. The Power Reserves are 2.5mm. Radiomirs are the shallowest at 1.9mm (of course they don't have cyclops ). On the sandwiche crystals the top layer of sapphire is most likely 2mm or less. Saves money by putting second layer of glass and avoiding drilling into the sapphire. It also improves magnification. They are innovative, aren't they? That is exactly what John and I said some time ago. And really thanks for those specs! I think I may add that the inner layer is 1.4mm thick. Today I tried to disassemble and reassemble (with a different cyclops) a sandwich crystal. Disassembling went good. Reassembling went a mess. I used a low-viscosity UV glue that promised not to lave air bubbles between the two layers. It was true, but I got tons of (oh what a cohincidence!) Newton rings. Disassembed again. The outer layer (it was glass too, not sapphire - a rep sandwich crystal) got scratched. Tryed to polish it. Ruined it. Turning to a Jimmy's crystal with a watchmen cyclops. The minute hand touched the cyclops. Got nervous. Replaced the watchmen with a chieftang's. Touched again. Got more nervous. Tried a different case (Jimmy's). Inserted a Davidsen crown tube - it fitted. Inserted the bezel -- ruined. Got even more nervous. Back to the sandwich crystal. Found a replacement for the outer layer (a thin glass from another watch). Reassembled again. Fallen on the ground and broken. Inner and outer layers. Better staying in bed today. Going to the bay to get a new Jimmy's bezel and some new idea now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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