jimbo Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 A few thoughts I am having, and would love to have some debate on this... With the release of the new BCE and steelfish and HBB ceramic models, and with other watches coming our way (Cousteau divers, possibly the long-awaited AP ROO), we seem to be miving into an exciting area of reps, with levels of detail I never would have anticipated in a rep. However, prices also seem to be reaching levels I, for one, am uncomfortable paying for a rep. I realize that this is a free market, and that prices are set by what the market will bear. If dealsrs begin to have unsold stock at a high price point, it would make sense that there would be some pressure to reduce price and move some stock. Take, for example, the new ceramic HBB. Beautiful watch, impressive visually, but with a movement that is present in watches 1/3 the price, with some questions about long-term reliability, and with a history of screws falling out and other QC issues. These reps are getting too expensive to justify the fun of a quick purchase with occasional wear. I look around at other items that I could purchase for the same price point, and I start to ask myself, what would I get more enjoyment from? A new Apple iPhone, maybe ($599 list)? Watch videos, listen to music, camera, internet browsing, cell phone, IM, GPS, Google maps? Or perhaps a Sony Playstation 3 ($599 list)? 60 GB hard drive, media center capability, BluRay high-def player, video games in 1080p, WiFi, killer looks? Thinking of these other things and the level of technology and sophistication required, I really scratch my head when I try to justify spending the same money on a replica item that I have absolutely no assurance will be working properly even 1 month after I buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Personally I have to agree that the higher costing reps do not appeal to me. That being said, I am sure that the amount of disposable income varies from one person to another. If you have big dough, then spending 500.00 instead of 250.00 probably is not the question. And then of course your points on what else to spend it on becomes pertinent. A few years back I was spending 400.00 plus for reps that now are selling for 250.00. I recently spent over 300.00 for Eddies IWC. That particular watch was way worth the money to me. I am sure that in a few months or a year that same watch, if still available, will be 250.00. Of course the issue of Asian or eta then comes into the picture. I suppose that it really is a question of what a particular watch is really worth to you. 500.00 and 600.00 reps, for me, IS NOT the way to go. As you stated there are MANY watches out there that cost that money that have really good movements in them AND have warranties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 My problem with the "super reps" is not that I can buy something more enjoyable for the cost. I have a problem with paying that much for an asian movement that replacement parts will not be available for in 3 years and the fact that there are still serious QC issues even though the watch "looks" superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 My problem with the "super reps" is not that I can buy something more enjoyable for the cost. I have a problem with paying that much for an asian movement that replacement parts will not be available for in 3 years and the fact that there are still serious QC issues even though the watch "looks" superb. Absolutely agree. I could never justify paying more than $300 for a replica. The beauty of these watches is literally skin deep. If Bulova, Tissot, or Hamilton can give me a beautiful mechanical chronograph for around $650 all of which smell, and perform very Swiss, why would I pay 2/3 this for a "super-rep". The fidelity of the copying technology might be getting better but you can be assured what's under the greasepaint and polish is the same ol same ol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 upgraded version... best version... super lume ... super rep... how much super is super? I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I agree that some of the Asia 7750 super reps are priced in an uncomfortable zone given their movements. The probabily of requiring a $200+ service is also something to be considered. We've had super reps in the past but these also had what I would label "super" movements as well. The ETA 7753, 2893-2 Pams & rollie GMTs plus 2892-2 FMs come to mind. The 7753 Pam was not priced too much above the HBB and that was one hell of a watch with the same movement as the gen. The new super reps such as the Steelfish and Ultimate PO are they way to go, IMO. These have reliable movements at a price that keeps the collecting process fun. Too many problems reported with the Asia 7750 to consider at this price unless it included a trip to the The Zigmeister spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Absolutely agree. I could never justify paying more than $300 for a replica. The beauty of these watches is literally skin deep. If Bulova, Tissot, or Hamilton can give me a beautiful mechanical chronograph for around $650 all of which smell, and perform very Swiss, why would I pay 2/3 this for a "super-rep". The fidelity of the copying technology might be getting better but you can be assured what's under the greasepaint and polish is the same ol same ol. Well said. I recently bought myself another brand new gen Oris. It cost me $850cdn, which is roughly $700usd. For that price, I am warrantied, and I have a highly reliable modified ETA 2836-2 movement. The super reps, though highly accurate and nice in appearance are just too much for me to justify that kind of spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Since the introduction of these better replicas we have seen an increase in price. I can understand, and am willing to pay more for them, we are getting a much more aesthetically pleasing watch. However, I paid that much (approx) for a Swiss BCE, and I would definitely not be prepared to pay that much for an Asian movement, no matter how good it is! If it was Swiss and that price no problems, asian, well it's a tad expensive!! I would also question myself when buying the gen for the price it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I am willing to pay more than 300 usd for watch if I know that it is very good quality and will last a very long time. That means for me a Panerai 111 with a swiss ETA/Unitas. From what I have understood there is not much that can break on that watch so the only thing where spare parts or service will be required is the movement, and since it is a common and uncomplicated movement I think every watch maker should be able to help me with that every fifth year. So considering that I can keep it for a long time (10-20 years?) I think it offers a good value. I would not pay a similar amount of money for a watch with a poor movement or with other items quickly worn out (screw crowns, bezels etc). A few of those good looking but poor quality items will add up to what you pay for a pretty good second hand gen. such as the Omega James Bond Seamaster etc. Another advantage is of course if buying a common 2nd hand gen is that you can sell it and get you money back. That might be considerably more difficult if you instead have three reps with asian chronograph movements which in worst case dont work any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 One thing I don't necessarily understand is that people will ante up the extra 300-400 bucks for the swiss movement, but isn't the asian 7750 as good, once it has been serviced? A new movement still hasn't been serviced, has it? I understand that you're getting a better long-term base with the swiss, but isn't it just as good to go with the serviced asian? I would rather pay $400 for a serviced asian ultimate BCE than the 600 or whatever it is for the swiss movement....unless I'm missing something (quite possible ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chronomat123 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I have to agree. Let's take the new Breitling Chronomat Evolution with Swiss 7750. These are going for around $700. I have routinely purchased GENUINE Breitling Chronomats on leather straps for $800-$1000. As for the HBB, while it's an awesome watch, I am very suspect of these modified movements. Modified movements even in gens are typically unreliable, not to mention how bad they are in reps, visavis the Asian Daytonas--both of mine are paperweights now. The only genuine Breitling chrono whose movement crapped out on me was the Montbrillant from the 90s with and ETA and a DD chrono module attached. I don't trust modified movements anymore. Like the poster above me, I feel that $300 for a rep with, e.g.,a real Swiss Unitas is quite a deal. But paying $650 for an HBB with a movement like a timebomb--well, I'd rather stick my finger in a socket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I have been quite lucky with the asian 7750 movements. I have several runnig strong for 1 to 2 years now. I believe this HBB has an unmodified 7750 movement and the main problem was with the daytona's seconds at 6. I have 3 of these and only one crapped out right away. I still feel that the real question that should be addresed is: is the creamic bezel worth $200? No way in hell!!! The full ceramic Chanel j12 can be had for around $200 and change. Why is the previous big bang $400 and now they slap a ceramic bezel on it and it is $600? I believe strongly that the steel and rose gold versions are well worth the money. As are the SFSO and BCE. Where else can you get an automatic movement (chrono or not) sapphire crystal, 316L case and bracelet with weight and workmanship comparable to these and AR coating for around $400? The watches themselves are well worth the money no matter what is on the dial, I just don't feel the $200 upcharge is justified for that ceramic piece of crap. I would say maybe it's worth an extra $65.00 and that is being generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 The reason I came to RWG was to be saved from $500-$600 replicas. I think it's absolute lunacy to shell out that kind of scratch for a replica. The whole point here I thought was value for the dollar. I'd rather be known as a legitimate Oris owner, a fine watch, than pay a similar amount to be a phony. No value in paying that much for a fake. An asian 7750 chrono for $275 is a fine value, for $499 it's just plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 For me the upper limit for a rep is $250. I just won't go above that for a disposable watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 How much to spend is really a personal decision... I probably would ask myself a question like what else I can do with $599 before I spend that much money on a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I agree with the reluctance to buyany Asian movement however attractive the watch, particularly as the 28,800 chrono movement has diffrent hand sizes than the Swiss 7750. I have 2 GSTs that I will get swapped to Swiss movements but I'm buying no more Asain chronos with the newer movements. I also totally agree with the confidence in the Unitas / ETA PAMs. Mine all have unaltered movements and solid casebacks........way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronax74 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 completly agrre with all of you ! its a shame to make us pay a watch 1115 usd when you know the movement cost 265 usd ( a real chinise flying tourbillion !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy83 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I've been following reps for a few years and, as you can tell by my post count, have lost interest lately. They're too expensive, unreliable and misrepresented. Why spend the money? To top it off, sending it back to China for "warranty" service is not my idea of a smart move. Think about the less expensive brands out there that are gens. I just bought a Hamilton, with superlume, a movement that I know is swiss and is serviced, warranty, box, very nice strap for...that's right...$250!! The quality is great and I don't have to sneak into a watchsmith and ask if he services reps. I can drop the thing off. And the quality I mentioned...better than some of these so called "super" reps that cost double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I am not surprised at who is not buying at these prices.What I want to know is who is? $600 for a potential paperweight is frightening. In the past I have a rationalized buying Asian movement watches as either inexpensive or readily able to replace the movement if it dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I've been following reps for a few years and, as you can tell by my post count, have lost interest lately. They're too expensive, unreliable and misrepresented. Why spend the money? To top it off, sending it back to China for "warranty" service is not my idea of a smart move. Think about the less expensive brands out there that are gens. I just bought a Hamilton, with superlume, a movement that I know is swiss and is serviced, warranty, box, very nice strap for...that's right...$250!! The quality is great and I don't have to sneak into a watchsmith and ask if he services reps. I can drop the thing off. And the quality I mentioned...better than some of these so called "super" reps that cost double. That's exactly the point. I believe certain replicas represent a tremendous value but they are few and far between. What we're seeing here is a ceiling push by the dealers to gauge just how far we'll go. There's lots of enthusiasm on this board for the latest wave of suposedly 1-1 replicas and I have to admit, the level of counterfeit fidelity is getting very good. They are not, nor will they ever be forgery class, but I can feel my juices flowing when the latest Breitling clone comes out and it's beautifully reproduced. It's this emotional, sensual response to our watch passion that ALL watch manufacturers, replica and genuine, count on to drive a luxury item buy. The replica buying decision has to be tempered with good judgement and more than just a little skepticisim. A luxury price for an un-waranteed, poorly QC'd watch of unknown origins quickly tempers my enthusiasm. A mid to high hundreds genuine is always a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I aggree with you. And from an economical point of view a second hand gen is a far better choice. After a few years there is an obvious risk that the rep is broken and cannot be repaired, which means that it is practically worthless. If one instead has bought a gen., you will most likelly have a perfectly working watch also after 5 years, and if you want to sell it you will probably be able to get the money back. So even if the price of a rep can makes it tempting and gives the feeling of making a bargain, many of them will probably end up being more expensive. The replica buying decision has to be tempered with good judgement and more than just a little skepticisim. A luxury price for an un-waranteed, poorly QC'd watch of unknown origins quickly tempers my enthusiasm. A mid to high hundreds genuine is always a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I agree that some of the Asia 7750 super reps are priced in an uncomfortable zone given their movements. The probabily of requiring a $200+ service is also something to be considered. We've had super reps in the past but these also had what I would label "super" movements as well. The ETA 7753 and 2893-2 Pams & rollie GMTs plus 2892-2 FMs come to mind. The 7753 Pam was not priced too much above the HBB and that was one hell of a watch with the same movement as the gen. The new super reps such as the Steelfish and Ultimate PO are they way to go, IMO. These have reliable movements at a price that keeps the collecting process fun. Too many problems reported with the Asia 7750 to consider at this price unless it included a trip to the The Zigmeister spa. Man I hadn't though about my pam 063 with 2893 in a while... Bought it for $400 less then a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyclmbr Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 How could you forget about your 063? Had one and reluctantly sold it to help start-up costs. That was a super watch period! I was advised by a number of people on this forum not to do it. I wish I would have listened to them! My first rule of rep buying. Buy the movement. Like I said, I had the 2893 063. I have a 2893 Exp II. Both of which were on the very upper end on what I would spend on a rep. Climb on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I love my BSFSO! I paid $295 for it though....I would say it is totaly worth the $330'ish that the "cartel" dealers are asking for it, but you can find it for under 300 if you ask around... the HBB are a little over priced IMO, I kinda think $350-400 for the SS, $400'ish for the RG and $450'ish for the ceramic would be more acceptable. I am kinda scared to find out what the new IWC cousteau is gonna be priced at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Lucky for me I hate the HBB and AP ROO (Whatever tf that is... I hate all AP) so I'm sticking with Joshua's 98$-200$ reps that are very beautiful and great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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