Guest watchbuff Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow, strong words here. True this is an "illegal" business for the dealers. But I hardly think any are going to a federal pen anytime soon. It's "small time" For the sellers, stand behind what you sell, when a refund, a legit problem requires a refund it's best to give it up and move on. Sell only the best, the pick of the litter. The QC ends with you placing that package in the mail. NONE of the buyers here work for free. For the buyers, its simple. Find what you like find a few sellers offering the same thing or close to what meets your needa and wants and have them compete against each other. My money is green everywhere I go. We work hard for it and use your head, get feedback and get educated. Check my post on PAM boxes where you can go to a "dealer" and spend twice as much here or get it right from the sweatshop's hands. The watches require more attention, the super reps require attention to detail like never before in this illicit hobby. I understand the dealers have to "eat" ,but not filet mignon every night. The advantage is to the buyer. If a dealer is alwyas on the high side of the mean average for a given item, the smart money will not go there. The smart money is the repeat business that puts the food on their table. I think most dealers here are fair and are hovering around the same price but if they had the opportunity their markup would triple if they had the solidarity. Like a buyer movement that is just not going to happen. I have been wanting a watch with a "unique" movement for some time. I asked a dealer who carries this watch for a price and details and the details sent to me were directly linked to a website where the SAME watch is selling for DOUBLE of what he is asking from me. You think he likes me, I dont think so. He is counting on the "other " idiot that will quadruple his profit margin, and make his usual 50 - 100% on me. Goes back to what it is. if you want the prestige, the fanfare of walking into the AD and having them do everything short of getting you off in that nice velvet chair and sip champagne and have them laugh at your jokes just to get your $$$$ for an overpriced item that is well engineered but paying for the name. So forget about being [censored] about prices of reps, just do what's smart. Get the best value for what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 (edited) Opinions are like arseholes....everybody has one....in my case....I could care less about your opinion.....it matters not a jot to me..it won't affect members who do business with me...and with new members who come along and read the 'bad' review....when that 'bad' review is countered by 'good' reviews....your opinion will carry no weight at all.....same as your 'mission statement' contained in your siggy...the problem is that you think your opinion matters...and that it will influence people.......it may ...but not to any significant degree......ask most members...who is TeeJay....and a significant numeber won't know you...but ask them who is Josty or Thrushy ..or Angus or Ruby...even TTK..and they'll know immediatley.....posting your opinion in the forlorn hope that people will listen to you....is a lot like pissing in the wind.....the LWL thread proved that,.....DESPITE the establishment of truth that J&A were lying.....it didn't drive the customers away...J&A are still doing business....and NO...I don't believe that Admin should have banned them....as much as you would have liked him to....they have an extensive catalogue of items available to members here......generally give good service....and the LWL thread served it's purpose...it brought them into line...about lying...it would never bring them into line with YOUR chosen pricing policy....! It's the same as Bearcats call to organise a 'boycott'......the truth is the members want the flash but don't wannna pay the cash...so they turn to the next best alternative...a facsimile of their heart's desire.....politicking about prices and standards....consumerism issues...etc etc...amount to nothing more than a hill of beans....and will NEVER sway the majority away from their objective....! The truth of the matter is that 1x photograph from me.....or any of the dealers ....that hits somebody's hot button...will [censored] all over any expressed opinion..by you or any other member......unless of course it's from a dealer such as Luucky who is a known scammer....! As for me or any other deaaler 'knowing' about the risk....I think you'll find that there are very few 'stoopid' dealers around these parts....they know the risk.....but there's a lot of 'stoopid' members who forget there's a risk.....hence the need to remind them of one of the principles reasons for high pricing....! BTW...please don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out to CQout...it would be much better if it hit you on the head....for obvious reasons....I'll let you have the last word...as you no doubt will.....I've said my piece...my stance is well known......so please excuse me....I have some customers I need to go and rip off....>! Edited October 28, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watchbuff Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow well said! so please excuse me....I have some customers I need to go and rip off....>! Finally an honest summation! Truth is people come here for the best deal, sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't. O well. TTK I have yet to buy from you but your reputation is in good order (if thats possible in an ilegal business) but any of us would have no problem purchasing from you that has positive experiences before. This is a hobby for people with a champagne taste on a beer budget. I could buy several more gens but why the hell would I do that and throw my money away. The car I drive, the house I live in, and the restaurants I go to validate the timepiece on my wrist. BTW TTK Do you carry any Tourbillons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Actually black markets are the ultimate free markets - free from government intervention. As long as you don't call getting arrested government intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Actually black markets are the ultimate free markets - free from government intervention. As long as you don't call getting arrested government intervention. Black Markets are only free markets for the sellers. The buyers always get the worst end of the stick in any supposed example of a free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Free markets are like free lunches...imaginary,....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Actually black markets are the ultimate free markets - free from government intervention. As long as you don't call getting arrested government intervention. except the rep market is more than a black market--it's sort of like a combination of the smack market and the vintage lunchbox market. Junkies and collectors are equal victims of the same f'd up psychosis. Which is of course why the idea of a boycott is funny, like saying "the price of crack is up 26%! That's it...It's Red Bull for me from now on!" But maybe we should try to be more sensible, though. A few pages back TTK was poking fun at one of his non-forum initiated customers who's happy to pay a flat rate of 15% of gen, no matter the attributes of the rep. But check out the breitling area, for example: more than a few guys who know their way around the rep market are shelling out 50% of the price of a gen to mod their SFSO's to 99% and I've gone to 40% of a used PAM just cause I scored a gen dial. Makes those $800 Mellow Yellows seem almost undervalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 (edited) Opinions are like arseholes....everybody has one....in my case....I could care less about your opinion.....it matters not a jot to me..it won't affect members who do business with me...and with new members who come along and read the 'bad' review....when that 'bad' review is countered by 'good' reviews....your opinion will carry no weight at all.....same as your 'mission statement' contained in your siggy...the problem is that you think your opinion matters...and that it will influence people.......it may ...but not to any significant degree......ask most members...who is TeeJay....and a significant numeber won't know you...but ask them who is Josty or Thrushy ..or Angus or Ruby...even TTK..and they'll know immediatley..... Oh dear, talk about sour grapes because I'm not grovelling to do business with you I don't think my opinion is worth more or less than anyone else's opinion. As you say, opinions are like arseholes and everyone has one. As I said before, and which clearly went over your head, I was not talking about MY OPINION, I was talking about an opinion which permeates forums. So people don't know who I am. I couldn't care less. I wouldn't expect people to know me, and don't desire the attention, once more, you are using totally false choices to try and deflect the discussion from the actual issue: Forum Propoganda = Only 'recommended collectors' are honest. All auction site sellers are scammers. That is what I object to, and what does nothing to help people who are afraid to think outside the box. As Ken mentioned with the shooting fish in a barrel scenario. Dealers who pay to sell here are effectively having the customers funnelled to them. I wonder how well those same dealers would fare if they had to rely on auction sites, where all transactions are visible and no negative rep goes unread or unregistered, and having to directly compete with other sellers. Sure, there's competition here, but not like there would be on an auction site. It's easy to act like a big fish when you're in a small pond. posting your opinion in the forlorn hope that people will listen to you....is a lot like pissing in the wind.... Boo Hoo. So it's my time to waste. If people don't want to read what I write, they can put me on ignore. Funny how the dissenting voices are always ridiculed and marginalized. Sounds somewhat fascistic to me... On RWG, you don't choose Dealer, Dealer chooses you the LWL thread proved that,.....DESPITE the establishment of truth that J&A were lying.....it didn't drive the customers away...J&A are still doing business.... Sure they're still doing business, but as Pug pointed out above, their business practices have changed. They knew they'd pushed their luck as far as it would go, people called them on it, and they've made changes. Obviously, not as futile an effort as your pissing in the wind comment would encourage someone to think... and NO...I don't believe that Admin should have banned them....as much as you would have liked him to....they have an extensive catalogue of items available to members here......generally give good service....and the LWL thread served it's purpose...it brought them into line...about lying... Out of curiousity, why would you not want them banned? It would potentially increase business for you, but also, allowing them to remain sets the rather dangerous precedent for dealers caught lying, being allowed to retain their 'recommended' status. On a forum established to protect buyers from unscrupulous dealers, that comes across as a somewhat hypocritical stance to have been taken by the powers that be. it would never bring them into line with YOUR chosen pricing policy....! MY chosen price policy?? Think back there, I'm not the one complaining that something I want costs X and I only want to pay Y for it. I clearly said, and another member quoted me on it, that my opinion has always been "It costs what it costs." If I don't like the price, I go elsewhere for something, I don't try and get the price reduced. It's the same as Bearcats call to organise a 'boycott'......the truth is the members want the flash but don't wannna pay the cash...so they turn to the next best alternative...a facsimile of their heart's desire.....politicking about prices and standards....consumerism issues...etc etc...amount to nothing more than a hill of beans....and will NEVER sway the majority away from their objective....! Absolutely so. Personally, I've nearly reached the limit of what watches I actually want. Sure, there are a few projects I'd like to do (like a vintagized Planet Ocean) and I'll probably continue to order watches for folks as gifts, but, once I've got the watches I want for my collection, I just won't need to buy anymore. That's not a case of going along with an organized boycott (which I agree, is not going to happen) it's just a case of once I have what I want, I won't be wanting anything else. The truth of the matter is that 1x photograph from me.....or any of the dealers ....that hits somebody's hot button...will [censored] all over any expressed opinion..by you or any other member...... Depends on if that person is someone who buys watches for their collection wants to have a load they never wear, but aren't specific about what they want. As mentioned elsewhere, I collect to a pattern: Movie memorabelia. Once I have the 'movie watches' (and the few projects) I want, I highly doubt I'd buy anything else. Of course, that's not to say that there won't be some super nice watch that I decide I really want, but, if I did make that choice, it would be one I would wear, rather than one that would be a 'box filler', and it would have to be something pretty special to capture my attention enough to want it, AND fit the criteria I have for wearing a watch (primarily ease of visibility). unless of course it's from a dealer such as Luucky who is a known scammer....! Although as you pointed out above, people know that A&J are liars, yet still choose to take the risk of buying from them. I think that that at the core, freedom of choice, rather than enforced opinion, is the key issue I was refering to. As for me or any other deaaler 'knowing' about the risk....I think you'll find that there are very few 'stoopid' dealers around these parts....they know the risk.....but there's a lot of 'stoopid' members who forget there's a risk.....hence the need to remind them of one of the principles reasons for high pricing....! And as I said above, sure, there are a few who forget the risk, but they are not ones who become repeat clients. They are the 'who has the best Sub??' crowd who convince themselves that they are buying dirt-cheap discounted gens rather than copies. As I said, no-one begrudges dealers reasonable expenses which come with the nature of this illegal business. What people object to, is people who, when called out on an issue, cry "But it's an illegal business, I don't want my front door kicked in and get black-bagged* by the federales for selling illegal goods which I made an informed choice to sell" That kind of crybaby bullock faeces just pisses people off. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Applys to any job whatever it might be, from stacking supermarket shelves, selling videos, selling cars, selling insurance, rocket scientist, brain surgeon, or even designing tattoos ( ) whatever line of business someone may be in, if you don't want to do it, don't do it, do something else, just don't [censored] and moan about it when called out. (For the record, I am not saying that this is something that you personally do, just illustrating the behaviour which others have exhibited) BTW...please don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out to CQout...it would be much better if it hit you on the head....for obvious reasons.... You make it sound like I don't have a choice, and that I am being 'punished'/missing out on something by using CQout... As I said previously, I've never had a problem with those sites which wasn't immediately and satisfactorily resolved. Shame I can't say the same about my transactions with 'recommended' dealers. Funny how even now, I still get PMs asking for the source of my watches. If they were as bad as some would make out (sure, I know they're not perfect, but they're certainly good enough for my purposes) people wouldn't be asking me about them. I'll let you have the last word...as you no doubt will.....I've said my piece...my stance is well known......so please excuse me.... Likewise, I've said what I need to say and made the points as clear as possible. If people have a question about that, they can feel free to ask me for clarification. I have some customers I need to go and rip off....>! I've never accused you of ripping anyone off, so unless that is an admission of guilt, I will take it as amusing sarcasm * Reference to how political dissidents and other undesireables were arrested in the movie V For Vendetta Edited October 28, 2007 by TeeJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgegrasser Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 This is pointless I'm afraid. Mention what you saved to your wife if the boycott is successful, and she will find a way to spend it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 (edited) Oh dear, talk about sour grapes because I'm not grovelling to do business with you Sour grapes.....I couldn't give a fukk ifyou disappeared up your own arrsehole.....tho' it would make a change from your CQout dealers....! I don't know you....don't give a flying fukk about you...so please don't try to elevate yourself by claiming that I would pay any attention to you...never mind feel sour grapes that YOU wouldn't buy from me....here's the newsflash....I wouldn't sell to you........you ain't gonna ride on my coat-tails....! I don't think my opinion is worth more or less than anyone else's opinion. I never said it wasn't....I said it mattered not a jot to me....that went completely over your head.....but that'snot surprising given that it's the size of a peanut....what YOU object to is of little consequence here....would you like a little cheese with your whine...see you in six months time...we'll conduct a Mori poll...and see how effective your campaign and objectives have fared.... ...end of discussion.....! BTW...good luckon your 'vintagised' Planet Ocean.....duh..! Edited October 28, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watchbuff Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow, I can feel the love all the way from here. For T- Obviously you are talking to someone who is in it to make $$$$ as well as a hobby. and there is nothjing wrong with that. As for TTK- You take care and pride in your business, althought it is illicit, do not ever complain to customers and justify the gouging ( o yes it does happen here) for the "risk" If I did not like the risk asssociated with my "job" than I would surely change my career path. Now shake hands and have a Guinness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Absolutely, and in most cases, those scammers are immediately banned. Why Admin has not banned A&J, I will never understand, as I feel the evidence there would be more than enough to get any other newcoming dealer barred, and the way that they have lied and manipulated people, should be enough to make folks realize "Sure, they were okay in the past, but aren't as trustworthy now, and something should be done to protect forum buyers from them" I thought this topic was about pricing, not about your rant concerning A&J? We all see your signature. We get it, TJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 (edited) @WB....you won't hear me complain about the risk...I'm a big hairy arsed boy who knows the risk....Isimply EXPLAIN to all those whiny whingy arsed moaners like TJ....that you have to take EVERYTHING into account ....these guys think that because they see or read about someone picking up items in Guangzhou at low low prices....that every dealer should be selling at those prices......lemons....! As for a career path....that ended when I retired....I leave that to the young Turks like Josty and Thrushy......I pick and choosemy customers....if I don't wanna deal with someone...I don't...I pick my watch....then choose my customer....! TJ's just a ranter who feels he got turned over.....best advice....get a life....in his tiny mind he thinks I'm expressing sour grapes...'cos he won't buy from me...well fukk me dead...I s'pose I better cancel that Veyron again.....dolt....! Nice bike.... Edited October 28, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 I thought this topic was about pricing, not about your rant concerning A&J? We all see your signature. We get it, TJ. Boo Hoo. Off-topic it might have been, but it was IN CONTEXT as a reply of my conversation with TTK. @WB....you won't hear me complain about the risk...I'm a big hairy arsed boy who knows the risk....Isimply EXPLAIN to all those whiny whingy arsed moaners like TJ....that you have to take EVERYTHING into account ....these guys think that because they see or read about someone picking up items in Guangzhou at low low prices....that every dealer should be selling at those prices......lemons....! Whiny? I'm not one of the people whining about prices being too high, infact, I've said several times that my opinion is it costs what it costs and either pay the price, save for the price, or look for cheaper alternatives. I've never actually said anything about getting prices lowered. If I have, please quote where I did so. As for a career path....that ended when I retired....I leave that to the young Turks like Josty and Thrushy......I pick and choosemy customers....if I don't wanna deal with someone...I don't...I pick my watch....then choose my customer....! I'd love to see how well that attitude serves you on an auction site where you don't have a forum full of willing buyers to choose from On RWG you don't choose Dealer, Dealer chooses you! TJ's just a ranter who feels he got turned over..... Feels? You think I'm imagining not receiving goods for nearly 12 weeks? You think I imagined making the paypal payment to Silix? You think I imagined the email telling me that the goods would be shipped out? Silix is nothing more than a drop-shipping liar. Oh, but I forgot, 'recommended' dealers here don't rip off people do they.....That only happens on CQout.... best advice....get a life.... Got a good one, thanks, that's why, as I said above, I'm not chasing down the parts I'm owed. That's not going to stop me from pointing out the lies in the Forum Propoganda. in his tiny mind he thinks I'm expressing sour grapes...'cos he won't buy from me... You're not?? Now that is funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 ..ever notice how motivations are made visible not by what is said, but by where and when, how loud and how long ? Now stay tuned for a commercial break.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow, I can feel the love all the way from here. For T- Obviously you are talking to someone who is in it to make $$$$ as well as a hobby. and there is nothjing wrong with that. As for TTK- You take care and pride in your business, althought it is illicit, do not ever complain to customers and justify the gouging ( o yes it does happen here) for the "risk" If I did not like the risk asssociated with my "job" than I would surely change my career path. Now shake hands and have a Guinness Absolutely, and I have no issue with that or TTK at all. Infact, he's one of the few forum dealers I would consider buying from if I was having difficulty sourcing a piece. Sure, he can be abrasive and has no tollerance for a55holes, but that's the way I like people. I have no respect for two-faced people who say one thing and mean something else. We may be disagreeing on this issue, but he calls a spade a spade, and I respect him for that. I also respect that people don't accuse him of being a scammer. Indeed, Guinness's on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_ Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 i spent 1400$ for 4 rol reps from josh, yes they r amazing but damm with that money i could buy a gen!! i noticed that when someone buys a watch from him the price in his site raises about 10$ for the model bought... :| damn... in china life is really cheap i think jos is something like a billionaire in his place.... by the way the service offered is really great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 I also respect that people don't accuse him of being a scammer. Darn tootin'.....when George and Maria were charging $430 for MBW's.....I brought them down to $350.....with EMS included.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Darn tootin'.....when George and Maria were charging $430 for MBW's.....I brought them down to $350.....with EMS included.....! And a damn fine move that was Nothing like a little healthy competition to bring about market changes Out of curiosity, how does one aquire a pet wombat? Was it a rescue/adoption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rep_pete Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I've got many years as a rep collector and must say that these rep forums that pretend to guide you away from "scam" sites to "reputable" dealers are nothing else then yet other "scam" sites. I've looked through all the big rep forums and strangely enough the recomended dealers are mostly the same in all of them??? I've bought many watches from your so called scam sites(just the cheap ones though - less than $100) and from your reutable dealers(paid up to $400) and result is always the same, namely: - sometimes you get great watches - sometimes you get real sh.t - sometimes you get nothing Fact is that the good watches sold through your dealers can be bought in Bangkok for around $40-50 - (that is if you find the proper dealer and not the market stalls and the real crappy ones , but loads of dealer selling great reps.). So your so called dealers selling them for $180 and up is nothing short of a ripoff, specially as most dealers are Chinese and buying straight from factories. Then your dealers cooperate to fix prices and on top I would suspect they pay the upkeep of these rep forums - so yet another scam site. I save loads of money by buying a lot when in Thailand, comapred to prices from your sellers it pays my air ticket several times over. Then i ship them to myself from thailand in small alotments. And make no misstakes, the reps I pick up are as good as you can get - nothing beats actually checking yourself what you buy. Why not keep a rep forum where members just talk and compare reps and have no dealers, there are so many great rep collectors here with loads of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Why not keep a rep forum where members just talk and compare reps and have no dealers, there are so many great rep collectors here with loads of experience. http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum/ Enjoy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Who put up the fly-paper again....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Who put up the fly-paper again....? Look on the bright side at least it gives Billy Goat Gruff the day off to cross the bridge in peace . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroflott Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum/ Enjoy . Quietly and patiently, there's a hellova lot of good info and advice being given over there - principally to noobs - which avoids cluttering up this forum with even more of the same old crappy issues and questions that most of us have seen more times than we'd care to remember. Not high-profile (and high-maintenance) like RWG2, RWG1 goes its own way, pretty much indifferent to the venom and ridiculization aimed at it by those who find it necessary to define their own existence in terms of belittling others. There's more going on there than on much more 'respectable' forums like TRC, but RWG1 suffers from an image problem fuelled by ancient feuds that a handfull of members here can't seem to get over. Personally, I barely give a [censored] one way or another - I've no particular vested interest in anyone or anything either here or there, other than occasionally lobbing a rock into the stagnant waters of the complacent and self-congratulatory group-think that has become one of stultifying aspects of RWG2. Incidentally, it would be interesting to see how many of our current members were guided here by some of the dedicated RWG1 members, after learning the 'ABCs' of rep watch collecting.... If they possess either the balls or the honesty to admit it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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