TJGladeRaider Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I am interested in GMTs with real GMT movements - unlike the Rx Subs and Om SMPs that I am aware of. Other than the Pams, which I have several of, are there any good GMTs out there with real GMT movements in them? I keep hearing that a real GMT Sub is coming, so I am looking forward to that. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) I have more than a dozen GMT watches. Most have basic Chinese movements - I have had no problems with any of the Chinese cheapies... except that the hands fell off my Alain Silberstein... and were fixed in a pub by Davy (Thanks, mate) Probably the most true to the original are the Vacheron Constantine Dual Time Regualtor and the Maurice Lacroix Pontos GMT. My Rolex GMTII won't satisfy a purist... but fooled a Rolex collector :-) As for better movements... I have an Asain 21J Pam 0GMT from Jos Nana - no problems to report. Lovely watch. I also have two GMTs powered by ETA 2836-2 movements, both bought at the Guangzhou watch market. One has developed a slight problem - the GMT hand will no longer move. But I am sure that there is a simple fix for this. As far as accuracy to the original is concerned, you won't go far wrong with the Pam 063 and 029. The new Seamaster Professional looks good, too... I'm hesitating over this because I really don't like metal bracelets. EDIT to add: Sorry... What is your definition of "a real GMT movement"? Happy timekeeping! Clive Edited May 21, 2006 by Highflyingclive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I keep hearing that a real GMT Sub is coming, so I am looking forward to that. Bill I don't know a lot about Rolex... I don't like them much. But a GMT Sub... wouldn't that be the GMTII? I look forward to being stood corrected... :-) Happy timekeeping! Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I don't know a lot about Rolex... I don't like them much. But a GMT Sub... wouldn't that be the GMTII? I look forward to being stood corrected... :-) Happy timekeeping! Clive Yes, much like the GMT II currently offered but I am told that this newer version will be dramatically improved over what is currently available. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertrinaustin Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hey Bill, I think most of the current offer and independant 4th hand. How will the new versions be different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hey Bill, I think most of the current offer and independant 4th hand. How will the new versions be different? If I tried to tell you, I'd get it wrong. Joshua tells me that there is a new gmt coming I should wait for - that's really all I know. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Genuine Omega and Ral*x GMT/Explorer watches have independently adjustable HOUR hand, not GMT (24 hour) hand. Any ETA movement with this in a rep is modified and not the specification of the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Genuine Omega and Ral*x GMT/Explorer watches have independently adjustable HOUR hand, not GMT (24 hour) hand. Any ETA movement with this in a rep is modified and not the specification of the real thing. Thank you for explaining this clearly to other people, there just seems to be too much of a common misconception that GMT watches have a 24 hour adjustable hand, which would be a totally useless feature for adjusting timezones. True GMT watches should be able to have the hour hand move backwards and forwards, without affecting the other hand, which is used as the hometime, and the date should also move forward or backward when the hour hand is moved, since some timezones require this, such as Toronto-Hong Kong where you move 12 hours ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL44 Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have a great rollie GMTII and I like it very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 A new GMT movement coming out, very interesting. I'm interested in adding a nice GMT Master to my collection. I just wonder if this new movement will be worth waiting for, if it will have problems, it seems that the more complicated a rep movement is, the higher the probability for breakdowns. When you think about it, a GMT movement is being asked to do some complex things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 El has a Gmt that features the Genuine Rolex adjustable hour hand funtionality ...e-mail him for the details... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 A new GMT movement coming out, very interesting. I'm interested in adding a nice GMT Master to my collection. I just wonder if this new movement will be worth waiting for, if it will have problems, it seems that the more complicated a rep movement is, the higher the probability for breakdowns. When you think about it, a GMT movement is being asked to do some complex things. I wish they would put the 2893 in them. I realize that this is a MUCHHHHH more expensive movement, but it would make for a much better watch. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 None of my GMT reps have a "real GMT movement". They are just reps... :-) But - just wondering... how many real watches that display two timezones have a "real GMT movement"? The GMTII, of course and the Oris XXL Worldtimer (which is not a worldtimer at all, but is a very handsome GMT watch)... how many others have a "home-time" hand that remains stationery when the hour hand is advanced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 with regards to the EL's Rolex, which btw, some of the other dealers also offer, the hour hand is adjustable, but again, nothing like the real thing, the real Rolex and Omegas have the hour hand jump hourly when adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 None of my GMT reps have a "real GMT movement". They are just reps... :-) But - just wondering... how many real watches that display two timezones have a "real GMT movement"? The GMTII, of course and the Oris XXL Worldtimer (which is not a worldtimer at all, but is a very handsome GMT watch)... how many others have a "home-time" hand that remains stationery when the hour hand is advanced? Watches that I've owned that come to mind: JLC Master Compressor Dualmatic JLC Master Control Hometime Omega GMTs And to an extent, the Ulysse Nardin GMT+/-, which has a window display for hometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 So do the PAM 029/063 work exactly like the genuines, or do the gen hour hands jump as opposed to the gmt hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faide Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 If I tried to tell you, I'd get it wrong. Joshua tells me that there is a new gmt coming I should wait for - that's really all I know. Bill Hmm any news on the new GMT movement anyone??? Thanks _Faide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Personally I don't know why members desire so much after the 2893 movement. It's very expensive and according to Eddie it's very unreliable compared to the "faux" modified 2836-2. Why pay premium for the expensive movement? When reps go to 500-600$ range it's too much... and I think it would be wiser to invest money on a genuine. You could find a preowned gen vintage Rolex GMT for $1600 - $1700 and Omega SMP in $1000 range. This is what EL wrote at the old RWG (I pasted it to RWI a while back so I was able to find it again) quote--------------------------------------------------> I offer 2836 and 2893 for the gmt... for the record...it does not matter to me which is which...the price is pretty much fixed by the distributor.... 2893...as most know is $$$ movt,...and once it is not in sync,,,hard to fix and $$$ to fix. i have shipped many 2893 ,,,,many....and i also have lots of issue with 2893..and when these come back to me,,,these 2893 just go back to distributor and return back to maker right away as instructed by maker. As once it is reassembled or retouch the movt,,,it has become unstable, exteemely unstable. and so far, i have quite a few return on the 2893...over 20 pcs....even these have been checked prior shipping out...i am sure many in the forum who have the 2893 may discover that gmt hand may slack in time or not sync with time...and fallen into the twilight zone..... but in 2836...i only have 1 issue with not sync with the time. This is what i know,,,and this is the info that i get,,and this is the feedback i have ...and this is the stat. and number does not lie. Regardless of what the eta movt says...or swatch group say....basically i do only believe what my qc lady and my repair mate inform me...and i have no doubt about their capabilities and judgement. I love to sell 2893 more than 2836....but 2836 is a simpler movt... and easier to fix...and from my point of view....on my service side...2836 better for me.... not many will know how to fix 2893 and 2892.,...and what if the local watchsmith screws the movt up...this mean the movt is gone...but 2836 is the work horse of the swatch group and many watchsmiths know this movt inside and out....like a the hook mechanism of victoria secret bras...2893 is the french corset....nice and sexy...but in my opinion has rather dim record.... I do not know much about movt...but i do one thing for sure....i knwo the stat...and i know the record...and i know the detail. If u were to ask me which is better.....benz or toyota....i will tell you ,,,if u have the cash sure...benz is better....but if u dont want to bet for return of service...toyota is one u may want to go with. <----------------outsert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 So do the PAM 029/063 work exactly like the genuines, or do the gen hour hands jump as opposed to the gmt hand? Genuine PAM029/063 have ETA 2893 movement with adjustable 24 hour GMT hand, not the hour hand. The ETA 2893 was a lazy and simple solution to the GMT problem, and quite a few companies used it. Note that Swatchgroup-owned Omega did not use their sister companies ETA movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagae Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Other than the Pams, which I have several of, are there any good GMTs out there with real GMT movements in them? You asked about "real GMT movements" and also wanted "unmodified movements." This is really going to depend on how you define these items. If by unmodified you mean an ETA movement, then the ETA 2893 "GMT" movement is what you want. This movement is used in a number of authentic watches to add the second time zone feature. However, what's a 100% Asian movement that supports a second time zone called? Wouldn't that also be "unmodified" since it was probably designed to support that feature? It also depends on what you mean by GMT movement. Many companies will call a watch with the 2893 a GMT watch. Sure, it has a 12 hour hand and a 24 hour hand and you could set the 24 hour hand to keep track of Zulu time. However, if you wanted a watch where the 24 hour hand kept track of Zulu/GMT/home and the 12 hour hand to be set to whatever time zone you're currently it, that movement really doesn't work that well. You would need something that operates the way an authentic Rollie GMT Master IIs do it. There were some GMT watches out a while ago that reversed the positions of the hour and 24 hour hands and there are rumors of some other watches being available some time soon. Also, don't necessarily believe everything you read. The 2893 is a great movement. That movement is used in many expensive authentic watches and can be worked on by competent people. Besides, if that was such a horrible movement, why was everyone so happy when Eddie was able to sell a bunch of them last month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) I have never disagreed with EL but will this one time. The ETA 2893-2 is one of the best movements out there in terms of accuracy and reliability. It is super smooth and easier to work on than a straight up 2836 & not one that has been modified via the date wheel to operate the GMT hand. The latter is a comment from The Zigmeister that has obviously had experience with these movements. The 2893-2 been favorably compared to the Rollie 3135 movement in terms of perfomance, reliability and accuracy. Better in some respects than the Rollie and other highly respected in house movements. A good read on the subject is @ http://www.chronometrie.com/eta2892/eta2892.html The 2893-2 also arrives on these watches clean, properly lubricated & timed so it saves the cost and hassle of servicing the movement. Value wise, the 2893-2 Pams represent a very good deal, IMO. The movement alone retails for $400 and can be purchased for $300. The cost of a new 2893-2 GMT Pam delivered was $435 which leaves only $135 for everything else. At the offered price of slightly used models, it's an absolute bargain. It is a better value than the 2836-2 equiped models whose movement can be purchased for $70 or less. Jet Edited June 4, 2006 by Jetsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Great link, Jet. Many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hi, Clive: You're very welcome! Cheers, Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Genuine Omega and Ral*x GMT/Explorer watches have independently adjustable HOUR hand, not GMT (24 hour) hand. I thought on the Exp II, the bezel is fixed . . . wouldn't the GMT hand HAVE to be independently adjustable ?? B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 I thought on the Exp II, the bezel is fixed . . . wouldn't the GMT hand HAVE to be independently adjustable ?? B Yes, of course... but in a "proper" GMT, the fourth hand says steady while the main hands are moved. In theory, this enables you to cange the main hands to local time, whilst leaving "home time" where it is. In reality, few of us spend so much travelling to make this a worthwhile complication.... I travel a bit. China, Japan, Taiwan, etc, perhaps three times a year. I find a GMT watch really useful. I keep the fourth hand on China time when I am in the UK. When I'm travelling, I ajust the main hands to local time, and the fourth hand to UK time. OK... its a bit of a fiddle. But it is a 12 hour flight from Heathrow to Hong Kong... 12 very boring hours. I need somethin to occupy my mind. Ajusting a real GMT would take a matter of seconds. (Although I would stil have to fiddle around, for a minute or two, changing the fourth hand to home time) Ajusting my "improper" GMT replica watch wastes four or five minutes.... Sometimes I fill up the flight time by taking two watches with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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