kye_lin Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Hi I might be able to get a few genuine swiss 6497-2 highbeat 21600Hz movements. I spoke to my watchmaker and he already has one for me. These are NOS. Not sure how many more I can get?? My watchmaker says probably another 10 more.... The price will be around USD350, depending on the numbers... maybe cheaper.... Just judging the interest here. How many out there will be interested?? I will try to get a pic next week... I am in Singapore btw.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 350 sounds too expensive,,,is this for a simple undecorated movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I'll second that...$350?! Cousins supply a sealed (not loose pack) Unitas 6497 for under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) We need to know the level of finish and decoration. AFAIK the 6497-2 was only supplied to watch manufacturers and was not sold as a replacement item. I bought one for an ultimate PAM and it was originally intended for a Hamilton of some sort. The finish is much better than the standard 6497 with blued screws and sunburst wheels, similar to the Cdg decorated 6497-1, but the top plates have polished hammered finish rather than the Cdg stripes. The whole of the movement is well finished, even on the dial side which normally can't be seen. I may be interested in a 6497-2 but the finish would be the determining factor. The normal decorated 6497-1 has broad Cdg stripes almost identical to the preA Panerai which used the 6497-2. I also have 2 of these 6497-1s, with one fitted in a Jimmy Fu case, with a genuine preA dial, gen tritium hands, gen crown & stem, gen CG etc. I looks 100% correct apart from the Panerai stamp on the movement, but should have been a higher beat 6497-2. However I have seen decorated 6497-2 movements with a narrower Cdg stripe at 45 degrees to the decorated 6497-1. This pattern is visually identical to the earlier pre-Vendome Panerai movement but it was based on the slower beat 6497-1. Perverse or what? I have already enquired if the top plates can be swapped around but no-one seems to know the answer as parts for the 6497-1 and 6497-2 don't share the same part numbers. I just went ahead and got mine assembled on the basis of visual accuracy rather than functional correctness. Please read the 'Pre-A and T-SWISS-T Officine Panerai 1997-1998' article in the Archive section of Paneristi.com. This gives an excellent insight into the various movements in these earlier PAMs. All Swiss manufactured Panerai used the 6497-2. Possibly we can get 6497-2s with the same pattern as the current PAM000 & 005 (yet another Cdg variation). That would be nice. Bottom line - I'm interested but need detail. Edited September 20, 2007 by PAMman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Please check to see if the 6497-2 has not only the high beat movement but the longer 56 hr. power reserve? I have a base 6497-2 movement and I really like it. You can really hear the difference in comparison to the 6497-1. As it was mentioned, all of the GEN Panerai use the 6497-2. And this movement has the correct balance wheel with the flared spokes. Unfortunately, none of the 6497-2 have the Panerai embellishments, so I guess these movements would be best suited to closed back Panerai REPs. Mine sits in an 001B with a JimmyFu case and crown guard. Probably my nicest Panerai REP. I'd love to see some pictures!! Here is the base 6497-2 movement in my watch: http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30466 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted October 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) Ok guys.. here are the pics... the is a 6497/2 hi beat 21600Hz gen swiss movement.. with secong hand pin intact.... I only have 3... cousins sell the 6497/1 low-beat movement.... More expensive than I expected.... USD500 shipped.... I am not earning anything here... just passing on a good rare deal... I already got one for myself.... My watchmaker is an ex-rolex guy (15 years with rolex)... He assessed the movements and they are working well.. BUT dry.. Needs full servicing and oiling.. He is willing to do it for extra USD100... Pics: Kai Edited October 1, 2007 by kye_lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new & improved osteopath Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Are you sure this is Swiss movement- I thought there was an ETA hallmark behind the balance wheel on the ETAs? Please correct me if I'm wrong- just not sure. -O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkarpas Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 it doesnt have bevelled gears nor swan neck (isnt it supposed to have?) and how on earth this manual mvt can be more expensive than a swiss 7750 chrono mvt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 I don't see the stamp either and wasn't this bridge configuation something unique to panerai? I mean, besides the replica movements, did eta ever sell these? Anyway, you can actually get a Swiss made watch with a decorated 6497/8 for this price. Perhaps not the highbeat, but is there really such a price difference? Sorry, but IMO, this seems too high a price for this movement, and it needs to be serviced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Ok guys.. here are the pics... the is a 6497/2 hi beat 21600Hz gen swiss movement.. with secong hand pin intact.... I only have 3... cousins sell the 6497/1 low-beat movement.... More expensive than I expected.... USD500 shipped.... I am not earning anything here... just passing on a good rare deal... I already got one for myself.... My watchmaker is an ex-rolex guy (15 years with rolex)... He assessed the movements and they are working well.. BUT dry.. Needs full servicing and oiling.. He is willing to do it for extra USD100... Firstly, Cousins sell both the 6497-1 and the 6497-2. The latter according to their newly designed site comes in at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi.. Ok guys.. I passed on all the questions to the supplier and my watchmaker... Please note that I am just passing on a rare deal.. not out to make money at all.. if u guys are not interested.... it is ok... we can forget about the whole thing.. The deal is: ETA supplied these three-bridged movements to panerai.... panerai then added their own swan neck and bridge engravings.... these movements are without ETA stamp but genuine swiss.... The supplier's dad used to work for ETA and some "EXTRA" movements that were made for panerai were smuggled out.... these 3 are part of them... Ok.. there u are... up to u guys to decide.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Firstly, Cousins sell both the 6497-1 and the 6497-2. The latter according to their newly designed site comes in at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Pics: Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 it doesnt have bevelled gears nor swan neck (isnt it supposed to have?) and how on earth this manual mvt can be more expensive than a swiss 7750 chrono mvt? The swan neck is added on. Soprod, Panerai etc.. GEN Swiss 6497 movements do not come from the factory with swan neck regulators. And most of the GEN movements do not have beveled gears. When these movements were available, they were very costly. I remember hearing that they sold for $400+. However, I've never seen a GEN Swiss movement with the ETA stampings behind the balance wheel. Only the Asian REP movements come without the stampings. But I could be wrong...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about movements, but I thought blue screws (the real ones) weren't blue in the gap where the screw driver fits. I thought that part of the screw was machined after the screw was blued (heated) and that only the asian copy movements had screws that were completely blue. I know this is the case with my decorated ETA 7753. Someone please correct me if my understanding is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi Kai, The incabloc system on your pictured movement looks Asian. So does the gold counterweight? Are you sure it's Swiss?? Does it have the flared spoke balance wheel. That movement doesn't look anything like my 6497-2. sherwin Hi Sherwin.. My watchmaker took it apart and had a look at all the parts.. as far as he knows... everything looks kosher... he compared to one of his own genuine 6497/2 movement and everything looks the same.. except the bridges.... which look like the panerai ones.... He is an ex-rolex guy and as far as I know.. trustworthy and a real standup guy.... he is not too bothered about the movements selling or not as well... the supplier is a friend of his.... and he had to pester the guy to look for these movements from his old stock when I mentioned that this might be a rare find.... only 4 came up.. I took one for myself... Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I see the 6498-1 and 6498-2, but I don't see the 6497-2?? Am I missing something? Could you please give me a link, because I would definitely like a few of the 6497-2 movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi Sherwin.. My watchmaker took it apart and had a look at all the parts.. as far as he knows... everything looks kosher... he compared to one of his own genuine 6497/2 movement and everything looks the same.. except the bridges.... which look like the panerai ones.... He is an ex-rolex guy and as far as I know.. trustworthy and a real standup guy.... he is not too bothered about the movements selling or not as well... the supplier is a friend of his.... and he had to pester the guy to look for these movements from his old stock when I mentioned that this might be a rare find.... only 4 came up.. I took one for myself... Kai Would be interested in The Zigmeister's opinion here. For now, I'm not going to question the authenticity of these movts amid talk of 'smuggling' out before sending to Panerai - you and your watchmaker have the benefit of the doubt, even if I know that at the time (prior to the use of their four inhouse movts), Panerai did ALL their own bridgework, not just decoration. But regardless, 600usd for what is still essentially an undecorated (that bridgework is neither here nor there) standard Unitas 6497-1 which I can pick up new and sealed for less than 200usd, does not represent a "rare" or "great" deal. For a couple of hundred more, I can buy a genuine half-decent Rolex c.1570 or a Cortebert c.616. I know what I'd rather spend my money on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Would be interested in The Zigmeister's opinion here. For now, I'm not going to question the authenticity of these movts amid talk of 'smuggling' out before sending to Panerai - you and your watchmaker have the benefit of the doubt, even if I know that at the time (prior to the use of their four inhouse movts), Panerai did ALL their own bridgework, not just decoration. But regardless, 600usd for what is still essentially an undecorated (that bridgework is neither here nor there) standard Unitas 6497-1 which I can pick up new and sealed for less than 200usd, does not represent a "rare" or "great" deal. For a couple of hundred more, I can buy a genuine half-decent Rolex c.1570 or a Cortebert c.616. I know what I'd rather spend my money on. The 6497-2 is really just a novelty. A movement that is used in the GEN Panerai since day one. The only reason it's so expensive is because it was supposedly made just for Officine Panerai. That's why no one stocks it. I just heard back from Cousins and they don't have it in stock......just the 6498-2 which is a different animal. The newer Asian 6497-2 is actually a very nice movement. It's dirt cheap, reliable, and has the thumbs up from both The Zigmeister and Vacuum. It's also visually more accurate than the "getting hard to find" GEN Swiss movement. Is it worth $600?? I don't know?? But if the point is to create the most accurate REP possible, there is no substitution for the GEN movement. I've asked Vacuum to try to swap some parts to create the Franken 6497-2. I'll report on how well that works. With regards to Kai's movement, I'm not sure what that is?? But if it was a fully decorated GEN Panerai movement, I would gladly pay $600 for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Would a comparison pic of the movement in a gen 000G, which is powered by a minimally decorated 6497-2, help? I just sold mine to a neighbor, but I bet I can borrow it anytime to take a few pics. What should I take close ups of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 They don't have it. Just confirmed this morning: Dear Sir Unfortunately we do not have this movement. I am sorry we could not be more helpful on this occasion. Best regards Cousins Hello, I am looking for the ETA 6497-2 movement. Do you currently have any in stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Would a comparison pic of the movement in a gen 000G, which is powered by a minimally decorated 6497-2, help? I just sold mine to a neighbor, but I bet I can borrow it anytime to take a few pics. What should I take close ups of? Really......an undecorated 6497-2 in a GEN Panerai?? I just assumed that they were all decorated open caseback or not?? I'd love to see pics of the GEN movement. Please take a shot of the balance assembly, the large ratchet wheel and crown wheel and also if possible, get a close up of the eta stampings underneath the balance wheel. Pics like these if possible: http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30466 Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skcheng Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about movements, but I thought blue screws (the real ones) weren't blue in the gap where the screw driver fits. I thought that part of the screw was machined after the screw was blued (heated) and that only the asian copy movements had screws that were completely blue. I know this is the case with my decorated ETA 7753. Someone please correct me if my understanding is wrong. I'm not sure where this originated from?? Maybe Tourby?? But if you look at any GEN Panerai movement, you will see that the screws are blue in the slots. The Soprod movements have very nice blued screws and the slots are silver. So, Asian copy and GEN Panerai movements have completely blued screws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I have showed the supplier all the feedback here... he has lowered the price to USD375 shipped... the lowest he can go... the full servicing by my watchmaker stays the same at USD100.... the rest is up to you guys.... that is the best price I manage to wrestle from him after much debate back and forth for 2 days... Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 The movement shown is Asian ETA 6497 clone, nothing less nothing more. All the usual Asian mov't tell-tale bits are there, visible without loupe. Stay away from it. Your watchmaker is either not telling you the truth, or he's unable to identify Asian ETA rep. Even if it was a gen ETA 6497-2, $375 (475 with the 'service' ?!?) for the movement in that state/shape and form is hardly worth dishing out. babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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