Varnish or not?

[freddy333]

I want to vintagize my MBW DRSD dial using the spray varnish process other members have used successfully, so I went to my local art supply store and asked for a can of 'matte finish' spray varnish. But as I was just about to begin spraying the dial, I noticed that the can does not say 'varnish' anywhere on it...it just says 'Matte Finish' as you can see here

This may be a stupid question, but before I kill my dial or make a return trip to the store...can anyone tell me if this looks like the right stuff (matte varnish), or is this a can of something different--like clear matte paint or something like that? Did the store in fact sell me the right stuff, even though the word 'varnish' does not appear anywhere on the label? I always thought that the only difference between 'varnish' and 'paint' is that varnish has a slightly caramel (yellowish-brown) tint. If so, since the can says 'Non-yellowing' does that mean it is not 'varnish'?

[predfan2001]

I've been using thinned out flat brown or rust paint airbrushed on the dial. Then tint the markers and hands with a very thin mix of tan and yellow enamel using the smallest brush you can find. I do use Testors Dullcoat on my vintage dials before the hands go back on. Here's my 16610 that I just aged the markers and hands:

[freddy333]

Nanuq -- That is what I was afraid of. But I thought people were using a spray can of varnish as opposed to an air gun, at least I think that is what was recommended in one of the tutorials I read (but cannot find now). No?

Also, I would like to replicate the texture of your dial, but I want to keep the markers and text white. Will an amber colored varnish also yellow or darken the markers and dial text? If so, maybe I should try the spray I have now?

Any thoughts???

[freddy333]

Predfan -- Nice work, but for this watch I want to keep the markers as close to white as possible. I have a number of pictures of gen DRSDs and Subs from TZ that still have white markers. I know they tend to be rarer, but that is the look I am after. But I do like the appearance of the black part of Nanaq's dial.

[freddy333]

Is it the amber tinting of the dial that suggests the watch has an authentic patina, or is it the 'matte' texture?

I would like to add an authentic-looking patina, but I would like to maintain the whiteness of the dial's text and markers. Although it is somewhat less typical, I have seen a number of vintage Subs and Seadwellers on TZ with white (or very nearly white) dial markings, and I am wondering if adding the texture of Nanuq's dial without the yellowing will look real or not?

Ordinarily, I would just do some testing on old dials, but, unfortunately, I killed all of my scrap dials during my previous re-luming testing and they were all tossed into the bin.

I am kind of thinking that the can of 'Matte Finish' I have now (shown above) will probably do the trick, but I really do not want to have to buy another MBW DRSD if I am wrong..

Any thoughts?

[Dizzy]

i guess it depends on the look you are going for. I like the heavy corrosion look of the lumpy darker varnish but that doesnt sound like the look you are going for. The clear matt spray will just make the whole dial look dull which is a good thing. The varnish will give it a bit of a darker older look. Whatever you end up doing please post pics if you can. I am very interested in this process and would like to see your results!

Lonnie

[tourbillon]

I find that some something as simple as Lipton tea is enough to age/matte the dial and markers. It does wonders for the hands too. If I make a mistake, I just wipe it off and start over. It looks great.

[freddy333]

For anyone who has been following this thread, here is the final result of my MBW DRSD dial after a coat of the (clear, non-yellowing) Matte Finish as mentioned in my original post (I apologize for the odd camera angles, but it is difficult to photograph such small texture details, especially when viewed through a superdome lens and ambient light reflections)

As you can see, it produced a nice, realistic texture to the dial without discoloring (yellowing) the white text or index markers (which I did not want to do)

The look I was going for is that of some of the dials shown on doubleredseadweller.com with white or nearly white index markers

And I think the result was perfect.

The matte finish also tamed the slight shininess and freshly applied contours of the original MBW index markers. As they no longer screamed 'new', the need to relume them no longer seemed mandatory (though I may still dab some Night Color on them in the future to puff them up a bit.....we shall see). I also selected not to apply the finish to the hands, as Nanuq had recommended. Although I did not have any more spare dials to test various spray techniques on, I did have some extra MBW hands (I had replaced the OEM MBW hands with a set of Clark's, which are VERY nice) and I was not totally pleased with the results. From a distance, they look nice and aged (slightly corroded). But when you get close (arm's distance and with bare eyes), the hands look like they are covered with water droplets. Maybe the amber colored varnish tones the effect down a bit, but it just looked weird to me, so I decided not to do the hands even though the argument could be made that they look too new for such an old watch (though I prefer to think that they were recently replaced during the last Rolex service).

The Krylon finish also has a tendency to produce a whitish appearance as successive coats are applied. And I used this side effect to produce an interesting and quite realistic-looking slight bleached effect between the markers. The effect is so subtle in fact that it is not apparent in any of the photos. But, seen live, the black portions of the dial now look uneven & somewhat blotchy, as though the dial had long-ago suffered water damage or the natural bleaching effects of long-term overexposure to the sun. Nice.

The bottom line is that this is a small detail, but a very important step towards improving the appearance of a vintage dial, especially when viewed through the merciless gaze of a loupe. In its original state, the MBW dial looks more realistic from a distance (when viewed with the naked eye) than it does under close inspection (through a loupe). But, now, the converse is true. Like peeling the skins of an onion, as you peer closer and closer, there are more (realistic-looking) details to see.

If you have the skills to remove the dial, it is a very easy mod to perform -- fix the dial onto a flat surface & apply 2 light passes with the spray from about 10 inches -- and the results, as others have also suggested, speak for themselves.

[Guest Carl]

Very nice job.

I like the matte dial finish. Thanks for posting!

Carl

[tourbillon]

That's a great finish. I think for that era, the clear matte finish and white markers works quite well.

Lipton Tea is an easy alternative for an older look. You can matte and mottle a dial, and add layers of tea to the hands until they are stained the yellow you want.

[tourbillon]

Sorry for such a small image. I kept reducing the image until I was allowed to upload it.

[freddy333]

Thank you. If I was going for a discolored (yellowish) look, I probably would have used tea as well. It is very difficult to get a realistic discoloration, so I decided to play it safe & stick with white.

Tourbillon - You should upgrade your membership so you can upload larger photos. Or upload them to a photo hosting service like photobucket and then you can copy the URL from the hosting service into the 'Insert Image' button URL box in your posting here.

[Slartibartfast]

As you can see, it produced a nice, realistic texture to the dial without discoloring (yellowing) the white text or index markers (which I did not want to do)

I followed onto this thread from a reply you posted to another member. I must say that the matt finish you have achieved with the spray can looks fantastic. I have a 1655 that has come with a gloss dial, and looks just wrong. I will try the matt spray technique that you have posted. Great work freddy!

[freddy333]

Good luck & do not forget to post pictures of the final result.

[Slartibartfast]

Good luck & do not forget to post pictures of the final result.

Followed the advice here from freddy333 to use matt spray varnish on my 1655 dial. Wow!!!! This has transformed the look of the watch totally. Thanks freddy for a priceless tip! I will post some pics in the coming week!

[freddy333]

Congrads. Waiting for the pics.