The President leads the Nation in Prayer

[Victoria]

As you may know, my dad is currently in hospital. In a private, Catholic hospital in fact, which was a blessing today, since a priest came over when I was there, and gave my father Holy Communion, leading my mum, he and I in brief prayer.

He's a retired priest, being possibly over 80, which I suspect given what I'm about to tell you below. He goes around patients' beds to take the load off of other priests' duties, and we for one, were thankful for it.

Afterwards, he and I got to talking.

To my astonishment, he was a World War II vet, and was present in the second wave of invasions on D-Day. You could've knocked me down with a feather when I heard that.

I've met very few men who were there on D-Day, and I confess, tears instantly came to my eyes in gratefulness at the courage this kid (as he must've been then) displayed, like thousands of others did storming the beaches of Normandy.

The Padre, with shaking hands but not of emotion, just because he's old now, comforted ME. He thought of me first, not of himself.

That is so at odds with the post-modern Western world, where it's such a Me-First, Me-Last mentality, that it's simple, and decent, and beautiful.

I thanked him again for his prayers, saying how much they seem to help some people.

He closed his eyes, and remembered that when the D-Day Invasion was on its way, the then President of the United States of America, Franklin D. Roosevelt (DEMOCRAT, need I remind you, and the closest politician in the White House to being a Socialist Americans have ever had), gave one of his famous "Fireside Chats", leading the entire nation in prayer for the safety of the men and women who were giving their lives that very day.

Can you imagine that today? A president, any president not just mentioning God, the Almighty, but leading a nation in PRAYER over the airwaves?

I had read of it, but I had never heard it.

Here it is, for the record, in .rm format and written out. Perhaps you may enjoy it, or at least, wonder at it, as I did.

http://easylink.playstream.com/historyplac...p-fdr-prayer.rm

My Fellow Americans:

Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.

And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.

Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.

And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.

Thy will be done, Almighty God.

Amen.

Franklin D. Roosevelt - June 6, 1944

Amen, Mr. President. And thanks. Prayers are a comforting thing, since they cost nothing, and give everything.

[Pugwash]

Prayers are a comforting thing, since they cost nothing, and give everything.

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

[Victoria]

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

Baby, thanks so much for that. Really.

Allow me to say this to you, and through you, to others:

I know we're going to disagree about many things, but I am not in any doubt as to your native intelligence, whether or not I agree with you. Sometimes when people disagree, it seems like they not only dismiss their views, but their very intelligence. That is wrong, IMO. And disrespectful.

Wish it weren't the case on the internet, but that remove seems to make even normally cowardly people into lions online.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

I'm sure Wendell Wilkie would've appreciated your vote.

[ryyannon]

God save the Queen.

Miss Barrett

And Miss Barrett's dad,

In any order you like.

[Victoria]

God save the Queen.

Miss Barrett

And Miss Barrett's dad,

In any order you like.

My dad, first. Me, I'm young, and the Queen is going to live to be older than dirt like her Mum.

And Ryyannon, miss you. But then, you're tired of hearing that I betcha...still miss you.

[Emmzy]

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

Your disrespect sir is astounding and is only to be expected.....more the shame.

V. Hope Dad gets well soon.

Enjoyed reading the prayer delivered by a fine man, part of a group of fine men who inspired men and women without whom you and I would probably not be living the fantastic lives we have today.

[Pugwash]

Your disrespect sir is astounding and is only to be expected.....more the shame.

There was no disrespect at all. Even VB posted that there was no disrespect.

Please don't look for drama where there is none.

[Guest TTK]

I'm going to disagree with you Pugs....that may come as a surprise given that I'm irreligious and my views on religionare well established here.

FDR was the right President at the right time....regardless of his political or religious views.....his words brought comfort ...hope and inspiration to millions....who heard it.....worldwide.....I may judge the man on a personal basis regarding his religious beliefs....but I won;t judge the man's performance ...being religious doesn't make you a bad person....and having or instilling faith and hope in others thru' your beliefs is never really a bad thing....!

The world and the US was a different place in the 40's.....far removed from the society that we know today....I personally think it was a better time.....people related to each other in better ways...that's not to say that there was none of the ills that we suffer from today....but back then society seemed to be suffering less than today......!

I may have my viewpoints on religion.....but I respect other people's right to have their view....regardless of how wonky or carzy i think it is....and yes I'll carry the torch for evolution and the big bang theory and science over creationism.....but I wouldn't deny anyone their faith.....it's their right...it may not be God given....but it's still their right.

[Pugwash]

FDR was the right President at the right time....regardless of his political or religious views.....his words brought comfort ...hope and inspiration to millions....who heard it.....worldwide.....

We're actually agreeing. His speech back then was the right thing to do, but today would simply not work.

And yes, VB's dad and family would take comfort in prayer, which is why it was a good thing to do for her and her family. That also is not the point.

[Emmzy]

We're actually agreeing. His speech back then was the right thing to do, but today would simply not work.

And yes, VB's dad and family would take comfort in prayer, which is why it was a good thing to do for her and her family. That also is not the point.

Keep digging.......your response to the original posting was disrespectful and in bad taste, I've re read it and can't see any forgiveness from V, I may be wrong......why respond at all if that's what you had to say?

Pomposity in action....again!

Give it a rest.

[jfreeman420]

First VB, let me wish your dad a speedy recovery.

Can you imagine that today? A president, any president not just mentioning God, the Almighty, but leading a nation in PRAYER over the airwaves?

Albeit unfortunate in my opinion, religion is the basis for 100% of the Republican candidates' platforms and many of the Democrats as well. 75% of the US claim to be of Christian faith. Because of this presidential candidates feel the need to appeal to constituents' religious beliefs. I can guarantee if 75% of America claimed to be muslin 90% of the candidates would be preaching praise to allah.

Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and religious freedom is part of what America was founded on. Although I may not agree with FDR or your beliefs, V, if that is what is comforting to you I am noone to mock or minimalize that.

I do not believe however that the word god or any other reference to any entity that may or may not exist should be allowed in any governmental function in any capacity. Religion is personal and everyone has a right to believe whatever they want but if you are spending my tax dollars and making decisions that affect my life do not impose what you believe to be religion on me. I would be happy if I never heard a politician utter the word god again.

[Guest TTK]

.....You're just worried they shut down Vegas....condemned as Gomorrah....with LA as Sodom....

[Guest TTK]

BTW Lady V......my best wishes for your father....I neglected to post that above....a speedy healthy recovery....!

[jfreeman420]

.....You're just worried they shut down Vegas....condemned as Gomorrah....with LA as Sodom....

Well those right wing religious fanatics are already hindering gambling expansion here in Florida and blocking much needed tax revenue that 80% of residents approve of.

I guess Vegas could be next......................................

[Kollektor]

V, wishing your dad a quick recovery.

Re the "great debate"... In my university days, I thought Atheism was the sign of a great intellect. Now I see it as a sign of arrogance and ignorance. It is quite possible that neither modern religions nor modern science accurately portray "reality," whatever that may be. Many students of quantum mechanics believe that the mind actually has an impact on reality. The Double Slit experiment and the duality of the particle/wave shows that human perception affects the outcome of the experiment.

As far as evolution is concerned, there is a certain elasticity of genes beyond which mutations are generally not survivable. Earth is estimated at 5 billion years old, the universe at 15-20 billion years. Not only have biology laboratories failed to establish how the initial emergence of single celled organisms developed from inorganic matter, one must marvel at the sheer complexity of each component of the human body, including symmetry. The eye in itself is an object far more complex than any object we can create in a factory or laboratory. The evolution of such complexity would be miraculous, even in 5B years.

Many scientists believe that no computer will ever be able to emulate the functionality of the human brain. Will computers ever "experience" consciousness? Roger Penrose says, no. (Emperor's New Mind). How is consciousness created from a physical object? Is it enough to have a neural network of computers? But back to the religion of Evolution.... Oddly enough, the fossil record does not depict huge variations and mutations among species, so I remember the new school theory about these major quantum jumps in mutations throughout evolution. Can't remember what that one is called but I'm sure someone here will remind me. I'd say that theory is more of a religion than science. "Theory," means that it's an explanation. A few years ago, we thought the universe was oscillating, expanding and contracting without any starting point (which goes against all Newtonian logic of cause and effect). Now we believe in the "Big Bang," the "cause" of which is still nebulous.

Not a religious man, but not a self absorbed pompous one, either. Whether a particular religion is silly or not does not make Atheism a logical imperative or conclusion. Whatever the truth may be, there IS an absolute reality out there. Our attempts to explain it are subjective. Atheists think they know it all. Ironically, they often think themselves to be the most open minded people in the world and yet they are so adamant in their beliefs. Probably comes from the natural association of "Christianity" as an organized religion with the existance of a Greater Being that exists outside of space and time. The two are not mutually exclusive and should not be confused.

[docblackrock]

Read Emperor's New Mind by Cambridge prof. Roger Penrose.

Wrong university Fellow of my old college. Never heard him speak though, but have Dawkins. Both great minds, the latter much more of the evangelist/populist.

[Kollektor]

Wrong university Fellow of my old college. Never heard him speak though, but have Dawkins. Both great minds, the latter much more of the evangelist/populist.

Well, let's say Oxbridge. One of the two :-) Dawkins has his own religion going. I read 1 or 2 of his books (Selfish Gene and another one I think... off top of head). He seems very impressed with himself! I'm not a fan of evangelists... but rather of those who seek truth in life. Penrose is brilliant. Glad someone's heard of him!

[Bansenshukai]

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

I have been in combat. I have seen men die right before my eyes (four men, to be exact). While in the military, I have followed tremendous leaders and, so far, all of them have had a belief in prayer and/or a basic belief in God (from the Judeo-Christian tradition). Also, one of my most stellar subordinates is a devout Muslim. I have never experienced their leadership/followership abilities lessened by their beliefs. I also don't believe that a man's religious beliefs necessarily make anyone a good leader. So, while I understand that you disagree with a "leader whose idea of helping is talking to his imaginary friend" [a leader who thinks prayer is helpful in yielding a positive result], I don't understand your reasoning. Religion does not make a person a bad person, or a leader a bad leader by mere association. The abuse of such beliefs in order to push for a cause is what affects effective leadership. Heck, even my 16-year-old nephew knows that.

[Victoria]

Keep digging.......your response to the original posting was disrespectful and in bad taste, I've re read it and can't see any forgiveness from V, I may be wrong......why respond at all if that's what you had to say?

Pomposity in action....again!

Give it a rest.

Emmzy, thanks first for your concern certainly during a more trying hour in my life, than would normally be the case. I just left dad, and he's resting well, but in hospital presumably for the next week.

I would just like to say that though the "imaginary friend" remark was perhaps a little abrupt given the circumstances, I know our Pugwash now well enough to know there was no malice in his heart.

He simply has entrenched views on the topic, and feels comfortable enough with me to air them, even during this time.

Also, though I haven't read any other reply as yet (I am reading them sequentially), I'd also like to say that my placing my father's condition in this thread about prayer may have been awkward. My mind is not exactly uncluttered without feeling.

I think we have discussed the topic of religion, however, so basically I was aiming for a broader point than just whether God exists or not.

Even those who do not believe in God, believe in the power of positive thoughts, which some call positive Beta waves. I think putting it those scientific terms for some, makes them understand my point a little better -- though the President's usage of "our religion" and "crusade" in his speech was so astounding to me, as to make me gasp out loud.

I hope we are all on the same page now, regarding my intent.

Thanks again!

[Kollektor]

V, sorry to threadjack. Inappropriate - this is about your dad and the heroes to whom we owe our debt of gratitude. I will pray for your dad's recovery. Those WWII vets were indeed a special lot.

While we may have descended into the "Me First" generation, there is hope. People have come together to help those displaced by the fires in Southern California. Donations, volunteers, the works. It's a tremendous show of community and support, reminiscent of days of old. Uplifting.

[Victoria]

V, sorry to threadjack. Inappropriate - this is about your dad and the heroes to whom we owe our debt of gratitude. I will pray for your dad's recovery. Those WWII vets were indeed a special lot.

While we may have descended into the "Me First" generation, there is hope. People have come together to help those displaced by the fires in Southern California. Donations, volunteers, the works. It's a tremendous show of community and support, reminiscent of days of old. Uplifting.

Drat! I meant to continue posting, but guess what? Some old offers for straps on Risti all came through today, LOL. So much for being done with straps. Receiving 3 more, so I was paying for them in the lull -- not because I was upset, or anything.

Just to clarify.

Thanks, Kollektor and to all who replied! I am very happy to argue any point, usually, but yes, of course, the exact emotionally-charged circumstances of this thread cloud the intent a bit.

I am not in the least offended, and I would like to mention that I am dumbstruck by the level of kindness exhibited publicly and privately about the situation.

I would like to highlight TTK, and thank him from the bottom of my heart, for his kind words. I always knew you were a softie.

Guys, falling asleep here. We'll duel tomorrow (God willing).

[gioarmani]

Best wishes, babe.

[jake48]

Not a class act:

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

Class act:

I would just like to say that though the "imaginary friend" remark was perhaps a little abrupt given the circumstances, I know our Pugwash now well enough to know there was no malice in his heart.

He simply has entrenched views on the topic, and feels comfortable enough with me to air them, even during this time...

The contrast between the two can be seen with unquestionable clarity.

Amazing act of poor taste...

BTW - V - Your father is in my prayers - God Bless...

[Guest TTK]

I always knew you were a softie.

Aww sheez......now you've gone and given the game way....and ruined my board persona.......garrumph.....!

[Pugwash]

Amazing act of poor taste...

What will it take? Does VB herself have to come on and tell you all to stop using her thread to create drama?

She knows me, she knows where I'm coming from and she understands I mean her no malice at all, and that to me is enough, regardless of what you think.

Sheesh, go find drama where there actually is some and let people either discuss religion or VB's poor dad in this thread.