Sadly this is becoming all too common

[Victoria]

A Man of Strength

"A strong man has faith that he is strong enough for the journey ...

but a man of strength has faith that it is in the journey that he

will become strong."

I don't recognise this quote. Did you write it Nanuq?

It's beautiful.

[andreww]

Simple fact, kids can be mean little [censored]. There were kids I teased when I was young (I still regret that). Any child that doesn't fit in, bears the brunt of endless ridicule. The jocks, the rich kids, the good looking ones, all prey of the "have nots". But lets ask why school shootings happen? Children bullying other kids certainly isn't a new thing. It is simply the fact that kids have access to weapons. Obviously walking into a crowded school with a knife or bat would have little impact, as the assailant could be quickly overpowered with very little in the way of casualties. Guns on the other hand offer these kids untouchability. They are always suicidal anyway, and know what their outcome will be, they simply want to kill people. Guns in my opinion are for the cowardly. They are for those that can not face their problems head on. You gun lovers only help to perpetuate incidences like this by your refusal to even acknowledge any correlation between the availability of guns and gun violence.

[Victoria]

You gun lovers only help to perpetuate incidences like this by your refusal to even acknowledge any correlation between the availability of guns and gun violence.

You can outlaw all the porn in the world. It won't stop sex.

You can outlaw all the drugs in the world. It won't stop junkies.

You can outlaw all the booze in this world. It won't stop drunks.

You can outlaw all the nastiness in this world, and we'll be stuck in some anaesthesised v-chip Pollyanna Rated-G world, where nothing bad happens, and all is sugarcane candy dreams.

Or you can see what is happening to these boys, and help them. They are crying out for help. But no one listens. They just care about advancing their little pet ideas about what is wrong with this world.

[Desuetude]

But specifically, black kids don't usually enter a school with a personal arsenal of arms, and kill their classmates and teachers.

It's possible that they don't do that, because in places where they study, there are metal detectors and police standing guard outside. But something tells me that's not quite it.

White teenaged boys have issues, more than other sexes and races. We need to address them, as a society, because those who don't act out when kids, go on to become lone serial killers later on.

Sorry V, that couldn't be further from the truth. Gang and vendetta shootings occur far more often than you'd think in inner city schools. There's a reason that homicide has been the leading cause of death among Black males age 15-19 since 1969. Also, I should mention that in spite of the panic that gripped the nation when the first rash of suburban school shootings occured in '97 and '98, the number of violent deaths in school settings decreased by 27.5% between '92 and '98. I won't bother going into the rest of the inner city, convicted felon, juvenile offender and gang data, I'll let you read the whole report on "promising strategies to end gun violence in the US" here

Simple fact, kids can be mean little [censored]. There were kids I teased when I was young (I still regret that). Any child that doesn't fit in, bears the brunt of endless ridicule. The jocks, the rich kids, the good looking ones, all prey of the "have nots". But lets ask why school shootings happen? Children bullying other kids certainly isn't a new thing. It is simply the fact that kids have access to weapons. Obviously walking into a crowded school with a knife or bat would have little impact, as the assailant could be quickly overpowered with very little in the way of casualties. Guns on the other hand offer these kids untouchability. They are always suicidal anyway, and know what their outcome will be, they simply want to kill people. Guns in my opinion are for the cowardly. They are for those that can not face their problems head on. You gun lovers only help to perpetuate incidences like this by your refusal to even acknowledge any correlation between the availability of guns and gun violence.

First off, children prey on the weak, it isn't fundamentally different than what goes on as adults, it just happens to be more blatant. Now, onto your flawed analysis of the cause behind school shootings. Children today have less access to guns than they ever have. Between 1972 and 2006, the number of households with firearms in the US dropped by 20%, from a high of 54 percent in 1977 to 34.5 percent in 2006. From 1980 to 2006, the percentage of Americans who reported personally owning a gun dropped more than nine percentage points: from a high of 30.7 percent in 1985 to a low during the period of 21.6 percent in 2006. I'll let you read this decidedly gun-control supportive report to further hammer this into your head. Looks like us silly little "gun lovers" aren't helping to perpetuate much at all, at least when it comes to having weapons available at our children's disposal. So, given the statistics in the report I linked to in my response to V, and the report I cited here, let's put those last few nails in the coffin. You can get all emotional, hoot and holler about how evil gun owners are, how their owning guns causes innocent children to be harmed, etc. Personally, I think that it is an argument often made by people looking to dump the blame on something else, when the blame should be on the very people making said arguments. Do healthy, loved, supported, well cared for and adjusted children, whose parents take active roles in their lives, go on shooting rampages? We all know the answer to that rhetorical question. Shall we blame video games, TV, the internet, video games, and music for these unconscionable acts? The only time these things can be blamed is when parents fail to perform in the most important job they have...being a dedicated, active, involved, loving parent. Children always seek the influence of figures in their lives; its how they shape themselves as people. If parents fail to be a positive, significant presence in a child's life, it leaves a vulnerable, impressionable child victim to the very elements of society that surround them, that they have not been able to put into context due to their parents failure to ground them, and give them perspective.

Nanuq's got the right idea. Caring, and being active in children's lives is what will help solve this problem. In an ever increasingly self-centric society, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that people simply have forgotten their priorities. However, it is only the inferior parents that will blame society, the media, popular culture, and lack of gun control, when it is themselves they should blame. For the record, I am a supporter of moderate gun control. I am a bigger supporter of ignorance control.

[Desuetude]

You can outlaw all the porn in the world. It won't stop sex.

You can outlaw all the drugs in the world. It won't stop junkies.

You can outlaw all the booze in this world. It won't stop drunks.

You can outlaw all the nastiness in this world, and we'll be stuck in some anaesthesised v-chip Pollyanna Rated-G world, where nothing bad happens, and all is sugarcane candy dreams.

Or you can see what is happening to these boys, and help them. They are crying out for help. But no one listens. They just care about advancing their little pet ideas about what is wrong with this world.

The head of the nail hath been struck

[elwopo]

This is beyond belief (sarcasm....because it actually is TOO easy to believe)

Kenberg started a post about the sadness of an event involving children, and extended prayers.

The very FIRST REPLY just HAD to include a comment about something that had nothing to do with the intent of the post. The reply wasn't about the kids....it was about "look at me". The comment made was not necessary....had no point other than to stir things up....and was more about ego than the subject at hand.

Kenberg even made a plea....when things (predictably) went awry....to keep it on track.

Too bad that egos would not allow that to happen. It's all about ME and what I have to say because I'M right and YOU are WRONG.

Sad and shameful. Anyone who posted anything other than thoughts of the children and their families should be embarrassed.

But.....all is not lost!

I've started a new topic in the Looney bin....for all of us loons.

Got something to say? An opinion you just can't live unless it's put out there? Wanna state your case and crush opposing opinions?

Well.....there is your new home. Put on your big kid undies and bring on whatever game you believe you have.

I'll be around to watch the show....and throw down with anyone.

@Kenberg.......

Sincerely sorry to add to the thread crap. I've got nothing but respect for you.....and what you tried to do with your post only confirms what most of us knew already. You are one intensely honorable guy. Nothing but good wishes for you and yours.

Your post reminded me to hug my son just a little bit more than usual (he thinks I'm nuts.....but that's nothing abnormal at this stage)

[KB]

@elwopo thank you, nothing more just thank you.

Ken

[Desuetude]

Here here. If it wasn't apparent before, my initial post was not to drag the thread further off topic.

[Rxus]

My prayers go out to the families of those involved.

All those kids both the attacker(s) and the victims belong to us, it is the world we built that has shaped them into whom they are today, and likewise they will be responsible for the tragedies their kids bring upon themselves.

It's a sad world we live in, but we strive to find happnies in every second of this life, otherwise why keep on living.

May they RIP..(minus the shooter)

[andreww]

First off, children prey on the weak, it isn't fundamentally different than what goes on as adults, it just happens to be more blatant. Now, onto your flawed analysis of the cause behind school shootings. Children today have less access to guns than they ever have. Between 1972 and 2006, the number of households with firearms in the US dropped by 20%, from a high of 54 percent in 1977 to 34.5 percent in 2006. From 1980 to 2006, the percentage of Americans who reported personally owning a gun dropped more than nine percentage points: from a high of 30.7 percent in 1985 to a low during the period of 21.6 percent in 2006. I'll let you read this decidedly gun-control supportive report to further hammer this into your head. Looks like us silly little "gun lovers" aren't helping to perpetuate much at all, at least when it comes to having weapons available at our children's disposal. So, given the statistics in the report I linked to in my response to V, and the report I cited here, let's put those last few nails in the coffin. You can get all emotional, hoot and holler about how evil gun owners are, how their owning guns causes innocent children to be harmed, etc. Personally, I think that it is an argument often made by people looking to dump the blame on something else, when the blame should be on the very people making said arguments. Do healthy, loved, supported, well cared for and adjusted children, whose parents take active roles in their lives, go on shooting rampages? We all know the answer to that rhetorical question. Shall we blame video games, TV, the internet, video games, and music for these unconscionable acts? The only time these things can be blamed is when parents fail to perform in the most important job they have...being a dedicated, active, involved, loving parent. Children always seek the influence of figures in their lives; its how they shape themselves as people. If parents fail to be a positive, significant presence in a child's life, it leaves a vulnerable, impressionable child victim to the very elements of society that surround them, that they have not been able to put into context due to their parents failure to ground them, and give them perspective.

This is a typical NRA type response. Lets use percentages to make the numbers work in our favor.

As an example:

Lets say in year X 10% of households own guns, and the area includes 1000 households. = 100 guns

Three years later, in year Y, that number has dropped to 8% but there are now 1500 households. = 120 guns

Your theory is further flawed by the fact that there are far more unregistered guns in existence.

[Desuetude]

*EDIT* Removed, I'll post my response in Elwopo's thread on Guns, Society, and moral judgments here. I'm done desecrating this thread, it's about the poor victims of this tragedy.

[hambone]

My Father was born in the town of Nykarleby Finland and we still have a farm there which has been in the family for over 150 years.

It is in the Vasa region where most of the population speak Swedish,. King Gustav Vasa invaded Finland in the 18th century and this portion of the population,6% of the total for Finland are decendants of these colonists, mostly fisherman and farmers.

Finland is a unique and beautiflul country, and having been there more times than I can count, it is a second home for me and it is sad to see extreme mindless violence happen in such a peaceful place. Alchoholism in Finland is off the charts and so is suicide. Oddly enough the highest number of doctors commit suicide in Finland in the world. Could be due to counseling so many depressed people. There is a certain air of melancholy amoung the Finns that is hard to explain. The long dark winters and booze contribute, but who can say for sure? One thing is a fact and that is we live in a very troubled period of history.

Here is a photo from summer of 2006. This is the beach house my great granfather built at the turn of the century. I stay there when visiting, and at midnight in the summer while in the sauna, looking out the window, you can see the sun setting on the water. It comes up again after 30 minutes. Has to be one of the most wonderful places on earth.