Victoria Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The PAM 127, the so-called Fiddy, has apparently reached the USD 20,000 level in gen forum sales areas. The Fidestro (as some people cheekily call the PAM 217, its lefty brother) is still around 11-12k. What a difference a crown guard side makes, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desuetude Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Jesus! I knew I should've bought one last year when I had the chance @ 9K!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think you'd have to be certifiably insane to pay 20 grand for a Fiddy.....why that's almost 10 grand of 'real' money! Seriously though I could list at least 10 or 20 watches that price range could buy me - even 3 or 4 gens plus an Angus/DSN Fiddy to boot. If the 'Risti numpties are paying that, then they are even more stupid and delusional than I thought - all for a prettified ETA/Unitas stock manual movt and the knowledge that there's another 1949 suckers like you out there? No thanks, think I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 As with everything it's 'worth' what someone is willing to pay. I'm sure a lot of the Ristis could afford $20k, so someone if they really want it would pay it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 As with everything it's 'worth' what someone is willing to pay. I'm sure a lot of the Ristis could afford $20k, so someone if they really want it would pay it. So true, value is relative to a persons taste and income. The Panerai 127 fiddy is a classic watch that will continue to climb in value. Makes owning a good Davidsen rep all the more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 (edited) Makes owning a good Davidsen rep all the more fun. Absolutely, mine's an EL 'ultimate' that's been lumed and plumed and sports a GREG vintage length strap - YAY! Think I might wear it today and think about the Edited November 8, 2007 by baltic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The Panerai 127 fiddy is a classic watch that will continue to climb in value.I wouldn't be so sure. And certainly not at 20k 'buy' price. It's almost the Panerai equivalent of an LV Submariner in terms of its ubiquitous appeal, which isn't great when you're dealing with a collector group that looks for uniqueness. And we all know how the market for LV Sub's has bombed. Still utter stupidity though whichever way you look at it, as the discerning cognoscenti's choice will always be the 217 - the destro features (case CG, dial, movt engraving) add a certain quirkiness in themselves, and it's also a limited run of only 1000 compared to the eponymous 1950 of the Fiddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think you'd have to be certifiably insane to pay 20 grand for a Fiddy.....why that's almost 10 grand of 'real' money! Seriously though I could list at least 10 or 20 watches that price range could buy me - even 3 or 4 gens plus an Angus/DSN Fiddy to boot. If the 'Risti numpties are paying that, then they are even more stupid and delusional than I thought - all for a prettified ETA/Unitas stock manual movt and the knowledge that there's another 1949 suckers like you out there? No thanks, think I'll pass. De gustibus non est de Scouser Boys. From the time two cavemen decided to barter, two things have made items rise or fall in cost. Plentifulness, and ease of getting/purchasing. Italians know a thing or two about such things. It's how the Venetians raked in the dosh, for spices today you can find with ease in any supermarket. Had I U$20,000 these days to spare, and really wanted it, I'd buy one. If a Star Wars Boba Fett figure signed by Jeremy Bulloch can cost $2000, a beautiful, limited edition timepiece can be worth whatever some numpty thinks it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Still utter stupidity though whichever way you look at it, as the discerning cognoscenti's choice will always be the 217 - the destro features (case CG, dial, movt engraving) add a certain quirkiness in themselves, and it's also a limited run of only 1000 compared to the eponymous 1950 of the Fiddy. I actually do like the design concept better of the Fidestro. Its direct historical hommage is the clincher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I personally do not like the fiddy... but Simon it is almost certain that its price will continue to rise. Same with the 232 and 249... Limited editions and historic designs.. It is really a mystery to me why the 217 with the Marina Militare on the dial is not following the pattern..Probably because of the lefty factor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I personally do not like the fiddy... but Simon it is almost certain that its price will continue to rise. Same with the 232 and 249... Limited editions and historic designs.. Risti members have been predicting that the 232 will be in huge demand quite soon. So far, the Cali 249 has been the hottest item for the past year, but it's about to change. Then there's the 292, of course. I personally don't think the 232 will ever be as big as the 249, or as possiby the 292 will be. It's that closed caseback thingie, amongst other things. It is really a mystery to me why the 217 with the Marina Militare on the dial is not following the pattern..Probably because of the lefty factor.. Yeah, lefties aren't liked in America. Actually, I think there is an Orlando Bloom factor involved...odd but true. And for anyone who says that's a silly reason, tell it to 007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 $20k for a Fiddy is a total & complete joke. The Fiddy is nothing but a charlatan - disguising its less than $300 manufacturing price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Actually, I think there is an Orlando Bloom factor involved...odd but true. And for anyone who says that's a silly reason, tell it to 007. Sorry Vic but that's more than silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjlamp Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 $20k for a Fiddy is a total & complete joke. The Fiddy is nothing but a charlatan - disguising its less than $300 manufacturing price. Ah(t) last.Sanity is an acceptable state of mind for some. It is even less than that( $300). I can't help but wonder, why some consumers think that their money are buying equivalent values to their real value. If we accept, that there are no cheap or expensive products or commodities,only people with money and people with no money,we can understand the difference between price and value. Just as Vb said,the 127 is a $ 20000 and the 217 only $11000. The reason as said is marketability. The cost is exactly the same.(less than $300) But 1950 pieces is a drop in the watch oceans. And exclusivity as you know.... To quote from a TV interview about forbidden actions."...I am selling, love....Do you have to buy???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Still utter stupidity though whichever way you look at it, as the discerning cognoscenti's choice will always be the 217 - the destro features (case CG, dial, movt engraving) add a certain quirkiness in themselves, and it's also a limited run of only 1000 compared to the eponymous 1950 of the Fiddy. totally agreed. this is why i've refused to get the fiddy (despite all the hype) and instead had my 217 modded to the max (lume, cannon pin fix and chieftang's AR coating) deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Euno is spot on as I said - it's obscene the value some people put on a basic stock movt and a bit of revisionist history V and VB - sorry but I still think you're wrong about the Fiddy's value. I stand by my LV Sub analogy, everybody wanted a piece of the LE 30th Anniversary Sub and many bought several to safe-queen away for a few years. Now you can't give them away and I know of one well-known vintage dealer who gets calls every week offering him LVs. The Fiddy is an even more extreme example of an artificially inflated market, and as we all know, those inevitably collapse at some point. Doesn't matter whether you're talking vintage Ferraris or golfing memorabilia, they all have their day in the sun before settling back down to normal values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The Fiddy is an even more extreme example of an artificially inflated market, and as we all know, those inevitably collapse at some point. Doesn't matter whether you're talking vintage Ferraris or golfing memorabilia, they all have their day in the sun before settling back down to normal values. don't mean to go off topic, but since it's at the top of my mind, any thoughts on why vintage rolex sports watches don't fit into this same category? i don't necessarily think they DO fit in this category....just thought it would be an interesting discussion, as well as a very relevant one given i'm currently looking to buy my first vintage rolex. they HAVE taken off in price in the past couple years (albeit from a relatively low price)... euno, nanuq, & other vintage lovers, i'd be interested in hearing yall's thoughts too... deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I personally don't say it worths the obscene amount of 20.000$.. I wouldn't give more than 8.000$ for it and that's IF I liked it, BUT I do believe that its price will stay at this amount or rise. It will end up a great value in the Panerai range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 don't mean to go off topic, but since it's at the top of my mind, any thoughts on why vintage rolex sports watches don't fit into this same category? i don't necessarily think they DO fit in this category....just thought it would be an interesting discussion, as well as a very relevant one given i'm currently looking to buy my first vintage rolex. they HAVE taken off in price in the past couple years (albeit from a relatively low price)... euno, nanuq, & other vintage lovers, i'd be interested in hearing yall's thoughts too... deltatahoe Hmmm, well if we knew that we'd all have seen it coming and be sitting at home with our gen DRSD, 1675, Bond Sub....I mean, who would be that lucky? It's a bit of an anomaly to be honest, and the market shows absolutely no signs of slowing - some pieces have gone astronomical (1665, 1655, 6542, 6541, 1019, early Subs etc.), some are rising exponentially (1680, 5514 etc.) and some are starting to show signs of significant ascent (1675, 5513). Why? I don't know, but given that Rolex has now sold its soul and pished away any respect for its own heritage, it's been left to collectors to fully appreciate and revere these beauties....their increasing rarity in good condition and inherent value (movements alone) mean prices are rocketing. It's not an over-inflated market, it's a self-sustainable one IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 $20k for a Fiddy is a total & complete joke. The Fiddy is nothing but a charlatan - disguising its less than $300 manufacturing price. I couldn't agree more. $20k for this watch is assinine....I remember the fiddy's back in '04 when I discovered this brand....I remember their prices back then....crazy then and definitely crazy now if you ask me... What I don't get is the recent "WTB FIDDY" ads you see constantly on the fora...where in the phuck did this come from and start? Its phuckin' out of hand....who knew you could double and maybe even triple your money in about 3 years time! A lot of the watches are hyped and the lemmings just follow it.... Remember on the risti boards last summer when the "sub club" was constantly being hyped....and lots of knuckleheads jumped on board..."hey yah, I want a sub now".... Now, the sub can't get the time of day with all the 249 nuthugggers....sorry, I don't really care for the 249...'course, I have never had one on my wrist so I'll disclose that now...maybe that'll change... I personally think the 232 looks better...but what do I know...as I am definitely NOT privy to the cognoscenti and this latest FIDDY love fest... cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hmmm, well if we knew that we'd all have seen it coming and be sitting at home with our gen DRSD, 1675, Bond Sub....I mean, who would be that lucky? ahem....do we have some confessing to do doc? It's a bit of an anomaly to be honest, and the market shows absolutely no signs of slowing - some pieces have gone astronomical (1665, 1655, 6542, 6541, 1019, early Subs etc.), some are rising exponentially (1680, 5514 etc.) and some are starting to show signs of significant ascent (1675, 5513). Why? I don't know, but given that Rolex has now sold its soul and pished away any respect for its own heritage, it's been left to collectors to fully appreciate and revere these beauties....their increasing rarity in good condition and inherent value (movements alone) mean prices are rocketing. It's not an over-inflated market, it's a self-sustainable one IMO. some good observations to be sure....right now i'm thinking a 1675 and a 1680 would be two smart purchases that could pay off nicely in several years (leaving the pure enjoyment of the watches themselves aside)..... now where did my piggy bank run off to? deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Back OT Panerai-wise, here's an interesting comparison. My local AD has a 213 (the gorgeous 1950 Rattrapante, twin brother of our well-known 212) - it's a gorgeous wearable timepiece with a very nice and relatively sophisticated Valjoux-based auto movement, and is limited to only 800 pieces worldwide, and comes in at less than $11k yet these babies as well as the 212 (of which i've seen 3 recently at around $8k) are not that difficult to source. I know what I'd spend my money on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 ahem....do we have some confessing to do doc? Ha! I wish! No no, think 'polar bear', think 'salmon', think 'overgrown Boy Scout' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 don't mean to go off topic, but since it's at the top of my mind, any thoughts on why vintage rolex sports watches don't fit into this same category? i don't necessarily think they DO fit in this category....just thought it would be an interesting discussion, as well as a very relevant one given i'm currently looking to buy my first vintage rolex. they HAVE taken off in price in the past couple years (albeit from a relatively low price)... euno, nanuq, & other vintage lovers, i'd be interested in hearing yall's thoughts too... deltatahoe This makes for a very interesting topic Perhaps it should be started as a diff. thread - there are lots & lots that could be said in respects to these issues. I'd love to hear what other felllow vintage collectors here have to say. given that Rolex has now sold its soul and pished away any respect for its own heritage, it's been left to collectors to fully appreciate and revere these beauties....their increasing rarity in good condition and inherent value (movements alone) mean prices are rocketing. It's not an over-inflated market, it's a self-sustainable one IMO. I will say this, the good Doctor makes a great point about Rolex: the vintage Rolex market has become self-sustainable. And as such, this 'esoteric' niche market should be considered wholly unto its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 QUOTE(deltatahoe @ Nov 8 2007, 07:15 PM) ahem....do we have some confessing to do doc? Ha! I wish! No no, think 'polar bear', think 'salmon', think 'overgrown Boy Scout' it's funny....when you mentioned those particular watches it didn't occur to me that those were the vintage models our alaskan friend happens to have.....i was just making sure you weren't holding out on us also, re: your back on topic post, i agree that the 212 & 213 are good relative value in the premium panerai range...i saw the 212 in person and the flyback feature is PRETTY nifty deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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