sanro Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I wonder if anyone has the 027 or 028 rep with Power Reserve that Andrew shows in his website (Josh doesn't update his website as much...). Davidsen does not seem to have this model... Does anyone know how good is this rep compared to DSNs? Is the PR really functional? I have read about some PRs of the PAMs showing "45" hours reserve (max is 40 but the indicator moves beyond the max). For a rep so expensive I would not want to buy an too-noticeable rep neither because of simple flaws or because of the PR problems... Thx if anyone can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 027 and 028 reps at j&a websites...i suppose you are speaking about the high priced reps with the ETA2892-A2 movement with the added module Soprod 9040 for the PR function? If it is so, this one of the most beautiful reps out there along with the 029 and 063 with the 2893-2 movement (PAM's speaking)...they are expensive mostly because the movement that is inside, it is the same movement used in the genuine version of the mentioned Panerais... somebody would say that is insane to pay this amount for a rep, even with that movement...but I wouldn't agree with them...they are worth every single $ you have in them...I am a proud owner of the 027 with 2892-A2 and 029 with 2893-2 movements, and all I can say is that they are 2 of the 5-6 reps that I will never ever consider selling... since the movement is the same as in the genuine PAMs of the same reference number there is not much to say more...there are some flaws, obviously, they are reps...but outstanding reps...the flaws are basically the bad cyclopes, and the wrong font on the DW...crown is good (3.5/5) and they could be lumed with tritium (not necessarily)...there is the wrong spelling on the rotor of the movement (panerai misses one letter - if I remember it's the A) but this could be seen only if the caseback would be opened...maybe I forgot to mention something, but I am sure I sad 99% of what needed to be said about this rep and now to a sad part of the story...dealers seem not to have them any more for sale...they are discounted for 6 months now (except that River was selling a few of them a month ago - but even R is now out of stock).. good luck in founding one on the 2nd hand market..they appear from time to time...the price is high and they disappear within minutes... use the search function and you'll find reviews from some members aout this rep (for sure sssurfer did on his 028 PVD - his pride and joy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 River has a PAM 27A with the Swiss ETA 2892 A2 movement at 690 shipped. Its the same movement as the genuine. Can't speak for Josh or Andrew but that movement is pretty tough to find now. I have one and its a pretty accurate rep and PR is fairly spot on...I have DW inbound and hopefully a cyclops....then off to Ziggy for a service and custom tritium lume....voila! I don't think DSN offers a PAM 27 but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 no PAM27 from DSN...178,43% sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanro Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I guess your reply means that the PR works as the genuine too, dadog... Envious i am, believe me... And the 029, sweet too... So sweet I actually had it on my dream list as for future gens... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 This is actually my second PAM 27A...sold the first one (how in the hell did i do that) and luckily was able to get one of the last ones floating around about a month ago....they are worth every penny. The PAM 29 I had, also with gen movement was also pretty special but it just didn't do anything for me, so it got sold. If either one of these two or the 63 come up for sale on the Watches section....move quickly as these gen movements are slowly becoming harder to find. And, most members only sell them when they HAVE to...meaning, most people know what they have and tend to hold on to them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 sssurfer did on his 028 PVD - his pride and joy Really! sanro, info by dadog is perfect. I am a PR fan, and the only things that I can add are: The 45 hrs power reserve is an issue of models with PR indicator @5hr (PAM 090, 124, 222), that have the Seagull 2530 movement (or a clone of it), not of models with PR indicator @6hr (PAM 027 and 028), that either have the ETA 2892-A2 (690 USD) or the Asian 21J (80 USD). As far as I know, River recently sold his last ETA 2892-A2 027. And ETA 2892-A2 028 are sold out since a long time now. If you happen to see a 2nd hand one, jump on it! Then ask lello for a good datewheel and me for a good cyclops*, and you will end up with a 99.99% rep. My 028 is my only rep that I would even proudly wear at a Paneristi party. I posted a thread about it time ago, you may want to have a look at it, and I am soon going to post an update as I got a new PVD crown for it. The flaw in the rotor is that "OFFICINE" is spelled "OFFICNE". If you want to have a feeling of a 027 while waiting for a 2nd hand one to show up, then go for the $80 model from Silix. It is inaccurate in the caseback and date mag, but on any other respects it is an excellent rep with an uncomparable performance/price ratio. Best wishes, :sss: *EDIT: I just remembered that my 'perfect' cyclopses for the 2892-A2 are sold out now. I still have some 99% cyclopses though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanro Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Damnnnnnn!!! With all that hype and positive comments you guys made me sickly envious and in desperate need of one of those beauties... Who do I kill to get one?? By the way, I am quite the newbie here so either someone tells me what a cyclops is or I will just take an eyeball off the watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingrick Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Get this watch if you still can. It took me over 1 1/2 years to finally pull the trigger on a PAM27. Bought one from River about 2 months ago. Absolutely no regrets, I love this watch, and doubt I will ever sell it. I looks very close to the gen and has an excellent movement (same as the gen). In my opinion this watch will be the cult classic rep of the future, rockin a Genuine ETA with Soprod power reserve module, while the future reps will be running on Chinese copy movements or at best Selita movements. Here a picture of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 cyclop = date magnifier that is glued on the inside of the watch crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I bought the last one from River 1 week ago. He sold me the one from his private collection. There is one currently for sale on Repgeek.com if you are looking for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I bought the last one from River 1 week ago. He sold me the one from his private collection. There is one currently for sale on Repgeek.com if you are looking for one. since i saw that sanro really wanted one I pm'ed him the very same information before you did...but I did it through PM so others who may be browsing this forum don't get it before he has a chance... well, now his chances to get it are lower but nevertheless...everybody should know this info...it ain't a secret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Oh, right, well, PEOPLE READING THIS don't go to repgeek.com and buy it whatever you do. Except for sanro. Ok, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Oh, right, well, PEOPLE READING THIS don't go to repgeek.com and buy it whatever you do. Except for sanro. Ok, carry on. doesn't matter...I was a little bit joking...you are not...don't get upset immediately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I was kidding too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) I fully agree with all that has been said about the quality of the 027. I have a friend, who is a serious 'watch nut' with loads of really expensive gens, including a gen 027A. The dial of the gen is different from the rep because of the low bars in the rep's 'A's and the gen PR scale is mounted behind a cut out window, almost like a sandwich dial. This gives a recessed scale within the main dial which is not evident in photos of the gen. It's not really obvious in real life either for that matter so I wouldn't wory about it. I can say that the quality of the printing on my rep, which is one of River's recent batch, is every bit as sharp as the gen. The genuine tritium is more cream in colour but that's a minor detail. Get a genuine crown from Kruzer or a Palp crown, a Jimmy Fu CG and Lello's datewheel and you will have a superb watch which will last as long as the genuine. Kill someone if you have to but get one. Edited November 23, 2007 by PAMman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) ...and the gen PR scale is mounted behind a cut out window, almost like a sandwich dial. here is a pic of the gen 028, it can be seen what PAMman is saying about the PR scale... to find good pics on the internet of the gen 027A is really hard...I have some but i'd need to do a huge search on more tha 2gb of watch pics on my laptop... Edited November 22, 2007 by dadog13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Simply put it is a must have. All the 2892/3's are. Add a gen crown on top of an excellent crown guard included (second only to a Jimmy or gen) and a Lello datewheel and it is too good. You end up with an original movement rep with full functionality and 97-98% accuracy for less than 15% of the cost of a gen. And with proper service it will last a lifetime. With a Ziggy or equivalent servicing I have as much confidence in it as I do in any PAM gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanro Posted November 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 So is the 029 (GMT) with the 2893 as good & reliable as the 027 and a must-have too? There seems to be more availability of the 029 than the 027... I think I actually will have to kill someone...to rob him off the money for all the reps I want to buy!! I have tried singing in the streets, but no good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 What PAMman told about the 'recessed' PR gauge is -- as anything that PAMman tells -- absolutely exact. What I can add is that it is an [even small] issue on the 027 only, not on the 028, as the PR gauge on the 028 rep is recessed like the genuine. This is a fortunate (and desired) side-effect of the hobnail finish on the 028 dial. In the rep, the 028 finish is made of a thin added layer applied over the dial. This layer is interrupted at the PR gauge, so giving exactly the recessed look of the genuine. As far as I know, this is the only detail making the 028 rep even more appealing than the 027 (on the other hand, the inaccurate PVD finish of the 028 makes for an added mod needed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 So is the 029 with the 2893 as good & reliable as the 027 and a must-have too? There seems to be more availability of the 029 than the 027... I think I actually will have to kill someone...to rob him off the money for all the reps I want to buy!! I have tried singing in the streets, but no good... if you sing in the streets you should be able to earn for a nice asian 21j PAM (027 or 029)... but for the 2893-2 or the 2892-A2 you have to rob a bank... as for the 029/063 with 2893-2 - they are discounted as well...no longer available by our dealers...again River had a couple of the 063 with this mvt a month ago...but sold out too! there are 029 and 063 with 2863-2 movement and the 029 with the asian 21j...both of these movements are good...but the most expensive and no longer available PAM029/063 with the same movement as in the gen ETA2893-2 is priceless...and not in the same range as the 2 other mvt's...the story is pretty much the same as for the 027 2892-A2...same mvt as gen, no longer available, hot item, must have for a PAM rep collector...flaws are again same as on the 27...DW,cyclops,lume(?) so you better start looking around which bank has whick kind of security... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) The only flaws I've noticed on my 027A is the datewheel and the cyclops. Both are fixable and I have both ordered from members on this forum. Fix those and this is 99.9% of the gen. Edited November 23, 2007 by bazonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 The only flaws I've noticed on my 027A is the datewheel and the cyclops. Both are fixable and I have both ordered from members on this forum. Fix those and this is 99.9% of the gen. Fix the datewheel certainly...but the cyclops will be tricky. There is another magnifier within the dial of the 027, both rep and gen, which mitigates against the 'sunken datewheel' effect that arises due to the Sophos module that sits between the movement and the dial. Introducing a correct diameter cyclops will also increase magnification to the extent that the date may become unreadable and indeed too big to fit within the upper magnifier. However different cyclops from different modders may vary but just be aware of the potential mismatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Fix the datewheel certainly...but the cyclops will be tricky. There is another magnifier within the dial of the 027, both rep and gen, which mitigates against the 'sunken datewheel' effect that arises due to the Sophos module that sits between the movement and the dial. Introducing a correct diameter cyclops will also increase magnification to the extent that the date may become unreadable and indeed too big to fit within the upper magnifier. However different cyclops from different modders may vary but just be aware of the potential mismatch. Exactly. Due to the added small lens on the date window, both the watchmen and chieftang cyclops resulted overpowered on the 027 and 028. One solution is to remove the small lens (I seem to remember that archibald and/or kruzer00 followed this way). A better solution is to use a cyclops adequately powered. I had some of them available, you can see one on my 028 thread (soon to be updated, as I managed to get a palp's PVD crown in the end! ). I just sold out those cyclopses, but another batch is in the pipeline. Just, these new ones are 6.45mm diameter (while the gens are 6mm, and the first batch was 6.3mm) and I still have to test their mag power exactly. On the paper, they should perform almost as good as the first ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Why do I get the feeling that if one of the modders here returned a watch with hands lumed thus, they would be skinned alive? Just goes to show that even the real thing isn't always 100% Perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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