Louis Vuitton 'beaten' in norwegian court

[Everythingape]

Stavanger Regional Court in Norway tried a lawsuit by Louis Vuitton against a norwegian man, and settled it in favour of the latter.

The man came home from Thailand carrying six fake Louis Vuitton bags, and 5 sets of 25 Mulberry bags. They were confiscated by norwegian customs, and reported to LV who decided to sue for an unknown amount.

The man claimed the bags were not meant for resale and were supposed to be christmas presents for female aquaintances.

The court decided in favour of the traveller stating:"for the time being he's got no business activity that can be traced back to fakes and replicas, and hereby does not exploit LV's trademark".

The principal in this ruling is warranting that you can import whatever you like to norway in terms of copied goods, as long as you don't plan to sell it for profit.

Controversy is added through this man's prior conviction for importing and reselling a substantial amount of pirate copied products.

Needless to say, LV is annoyed by the ruling and says norway is setting the fight against trademark infringement back 10 years.

Kristine M. Madsen of NACG (Norwegian Anti-Counterfeit Group) claims the verdict is appalling, and that her organisation will put pressure on the norwegian government to turn things around.

Link to norwegian article

-Ape-

[NORing]

Stavanger Regional Court in Norway tried a lawsuit by Louis Vuitton against a norwegian man, and settled it in favour of the latter.

The man came home from Thailand carrying six fake Louis Vuitton bags, and 5 sets of 25 Mulberry bags. They were confiscated by norwegian customs, and reported to LV who decided to sue for an unknown amount.

The man claimed the bags were not meant for resale and were supposed to be christmas presents for female aquaintances.

The court decided in favour of the traveller stating:"for the time being he's got no business activity that can be traced back to fakes and replicas, and hereby does not exploit LV's trademark".

The principal in this ruling is warranting that you can import whatever you like to norway in terms of copied goods, as long as you don't plan to sell it for profit.

Controversy is added through this man's prior conviction for importing and reselling a substantial amount of pirate copied products.

Needless to say, LV is annoyed by the ruling and says norway is setting the fight against trademark infringement back 10 years.

Kristine M. Madsen of NACG (Norwegian Anti-Counterfeit Group) claims the verdict is appalling, and that her organisation will put pressure on the norwegian government to turn things around.

Link to norwegian article

-Ape-

Haha, sweet. Now I just need to pay my creditcard bills so that I can start buying again;)

[Victoria]

"for the time being he's got no business activity that can be traced back to fakes and replicas, and hereby does not exploit LV's trademark".

This is great news for Chrgod in Stavanger.

Seriously though, Ape, thanks for the interesting news. This IS a very serious setback for Louis Vuitton, but I think they don't have as much clout as Rolex, since ladies goods take a backseat to men's watches, and always will. However, the general precedent has been set.

I don't know if your Regional Court's dictum is final. Here is what I Wiki'ed about the Supreme Court of Norway:

"As a subject to Norwegian law, you have no right to be heard in the Supreme Court, as the universal Human Rights article on a fair trial is believed to be satisfied with the district courts and the regional courts as courts of appeal. [...]

A normal Supreme Court case is decided by five judges. However the chief justice can decide that all judges hear the case. Such "plenum-cases" often involve fundamental questions or cases that might alter the Supreme Courts own precedence."

So since this was brought by an individual to the Regional Court and decided in his favour, I suppose there can be no further appeal to your highest Court.

Good stuff.

In practical terms it means that you guys in Norway can now go to the Far East, or wherever, and bring back loads of counterfeit goods, so long as you have no established business links to the selling of replica items.

If they can trace you back to here, it makes that problematic...

Anyway, this is good news overall for those in Norway who like rep watches.

@Ape: Maybe my sarcasm metre needs adjusting, but to let you know your Image Shack Photo is missing, and a placeholder error one is there instead.

[Pugwash]

This IS a very serious setback for Louis Vuitton, but I think they don't have as much clout as Rolex, since ladies goods take a backseat to men's watches, and always will.

LV is part of LVMH. They have considerably more clout than Rolex. They are the ones that lobbied the French Government to make it illegal to own counterfeit goods.

This is who LVMH owns:

* Wines and spirits

o 10 Cane Rum

o Belvedere (vodka)

o Cape Mentelle

o Chandon Estates

o Ch

[Everythingape]

Thanks, Victoria. I deleted the pic.. And haven't decided on a new avatar yet.

And I agree with Pugwash that LV is the one throwing their weight around.. At least in Norway. Whenever there is a case involving counterfeit goods, you always see LV mentioned. After opening a boutique in Oslo I suppose they have closer ties to NACG than most companies. ..I have yet to see Rolex or the Swatch group voicing out in public like LV.

[Victoria]

Thanks, Victoria. I deleted the pic.. And haven't decided on a new avatar yet.

Cool.

And I agree with Pugwash that LV is the one throwing their weight around.. At least in Norway. Whenever there is a case involving counterfeit goods, you always see LV mentioned. After opening a boutique in Oslo I suppose they have closer ties to NACG than most companies. ..I have yet to see Rolex or the Swatch group voicing out in public like LV.

Ah thanks for replying to the thread, as I hadn't seen Pugwash's reply. Yes, I realise LV are very important, but I had no idea Rolex were not MORE. When people think counterfeit goods there are two words that come to mind -- Rolex (first IMHO), then Louis Vuitton. I suppose the conglomerate WOULD have more clout, as Rolex are still privately owned. Makes sense.

Since I have conflicting views on buying and owning (lots) of rep watches, which I've voiced in the past, let's just say I'm both happy and saddened at the legal outcome. Happy for you guys in Norway.

Followup: Here's a .pdf of US magazine, BusinessWeek's Top 100 Brands:

http://www.businessweek.com/pdfs/2007/0732_globalbrands.pdf

Louis Vuitton is 17th. Rolex...71st. Wow.

[Pugwash]

Louis Vuitton is 17th. Rolex...71st. Wow.

See? It's not like I make this stuff up. :laugh:

[cornerstone]

It kind of makes a mockery of all those brands when you see them in a big list like that, doesn't it? At least it does for me.

Hmmm. Glenmorangie handbags....

[Everythingape]

I don't see this ruling as solely positive.. You might think me hypocritical, but the watering down of high-end brands like LV/Gucci/DG and whatever bothers me some. In a small town in Norway you'll see old working class women carrying LV bags and wearing a Burberry scarf getting on a bus.. Of course it MIGHT be real, but chances are they got it from someone who spent 2 weeks in Turkey/Thailand/Wherever. It just gets too common.

I like status symbols, the envious looks and the side-poke "hey, check out the watch/bag/car!" people give eachother when one of THOSE pass by. The influx of fake goods takes away a bit of the allure and wow-factor of these things.

I'm not one to spend a lot money on luxury items, but I like thinking you can wear or use them without people automatically thinking/knowing they are fake.

-Ape-

[Victoria]

I don't see this ruling as solely positive.. You might think me hypocritical, but the watering down of high-end brands like LV/Gucci/DG and whatever bothers me some. In a small town in Norway you'll see old working class women carrying LV bags and wearing a Burberry scarf getting on a bus.. Of course it MIGHT be real, but chances are they got it from someone who spent 2 weeks in Turkey/Thailand/Wherever. It just gets too common.

Are you being ironic or trying to pry the snobbish from their under rocks?

I cannot believe this is the fisherman's son who hates the rich suburbanites of Oslo, talking!

I like status symbols, the envious looks and the side-poke "hey, check out the watch/bag/car!" people give eachother when one of THOSE pass by. The influx of fake goods takes away a bit of the allure and wow-factor of these things.

I'm not one to spend a lot money on luxury items, but I like thinking you can wear or use them without people automatically thinking/knowing they are fake.

As I said, I too have conflicting views actually rather similar to yours. Many angles to the views, at that.

1- I don't like Chinese people or whatever people just copying stuff or backwards engineering goods, rather than coming up with their own ideas. It's intellectually stunting for them, and they will never catch up to the West like this.

2- OTOH, I like blue collar folk being able to have a dream and being able to own a "piece of the pie". Why not indeed.

3- I hate copyright infringement and intellectual property theft, even if I download mp3s, etc. There's something unsporting about it that bugs me. If the international community REALLY cracked down on piracy, I'd be okay with that.

4- I like beating the system.

It's a conflicting topic, Ape.

[Pugwash]

1- I don't like Chinese people or whatever people just copying stuff or backwards engineering goods, rather than coming up with their own ideas. It's intellectually stunting for them, and they will never catch up to the West like this.

You say that as if that's what they should be doing. How do you know that Chinese industry isn't quite happy to be the world's factory? If the Chinese really wanted to compete, they could do so exceedingly easy: hire a western industrial design team (poach some seriously respected designers with godlike salaries) and just take over, market segment by market segment. Refuse to make goods for foreign companies or companies without Chinese part-ownership.

It really is that easy and the fact they haven't done it shows that they have no ambitions to really beat us at our own game. They have their own game and serving their internal market seems to have more value to them than working for export.

It seems the counterfeit market is more of an afterthought.

And yes, intellectual property law is in a complete mess and I'm not sure LV should have lost this one. We're morally and ethically wrong to collect counterfeit goods and we need to remember that. We are helping organised crime (no, not terrorism) and we are taking money out of the pockets of real live people in the western world. Don't hide behind moral indignation of corporate culture. We're not Robin Hood and the sooner we disabuse ourselves of that notion the better.

[Victoria]

You say that as if that's what they should be doing. How do you know that Chinese industry isn't quite happy to be the world's factory?

Because humans like innovation too much. If they could, they would. In Med School, there used to be a saying: biology departments around the world are filled with old Jewish men imparting knowledge to young Chinese women.

You'll note, it's not the other way around. It never is.

If the Chinese really wanted to compete, they could do so exceedingly easy: hire a western industrial design team (poach some seriously respected designers with godlike salaries) and just take over, market segment by market segment. Refuse to make goods for foreign companies or companies without Chinese part-ownership.

We had a similar conversation on RWI. In fact, it was one of the deeper threads in that forum.

I seem to recall telling you that this "hire western industrial design team" STILL means they cannot come up with original ideas without prompting from western minds. Why, I wonder? They're not dumb, for chrissakes. Much on the contrary.

It really is that easy and the fact they haven't done it shows that they have no ambitions to really beat us at our own game. They have their own game and serving their internal market seems to have more value to them than working for export.

The Japanese tried to beat us at our own game, and they came damn close. But some car makes, Sony, and wowza electronics later, and they're not close to being as dominant as they were predicted to have been, in the 80s.

It seems the counterfeit market is more of an afterthought.

Could be.

It's also a quick fix. First get the money, then start the innovation. That's my hope, anyway.

And yes, intellectual property law is in a complete mess and I'm not sure LV should have lost this one. We're morally and ethically wrong to collect counterfeit goods and we need to remember that. We are helping organised crime (no, not terrorism) and we are taking money out of the pockets of real live people in the western world. Don't hide behind moral indignation of corporate culture. We're not Robin Hood and the sooner we disabuse ourselves of that notion the better.

Err, okay. Thank God you said it, because from my lips it would've sounded arrogant. Doesn't make it any less right though.

[Pugwash]

I seem to recall telling you that this "hire western industrial design team" STILL means they cannot come up with original ideas without prompting from western minds. Why, I wonder? They're not dumb, for chrissakes. Much on the contrary.

I point the honourable lady to her Jewish Men imparting knowledge to Chinese Women statement.They have to start somewhere and that means opening design schools. The short-cut is to hire experienced designers and seeing as we've already established they have no history of this, where would you suggest they get it? Spend generations learning from scratch or taking a short cut by hiring westerners?

Err, okay. Thank God you said it, because from my lips it would've sounded arrogant. Doesn't make it any less right though.

I am arrogant. I get it from being right almost all of the time.

[Victoria]

I point the honourable lady to her Jewish Men imparting knowledge to Chinese Women statement.They have to start somewhere and that means opening design schools. The short-cut is to hire experienced designers and seeing as we've already established they have no history of this, where would you suggest they get it? Spend generations learning from scratch or taking a short cut by hiring westerners?I am arrogant. I get it from being right almost all of the time.

Understood, but when I said innovation, I meant it.

There are a lot of things still to be invented, imagined, discovered. Westerners have absolutely pwned the East in the past 500 years. It's time for a little payback.

How about starting with hydrogen fuel cells which will make petroleum obsolete? That's something which an ORIGINAL mind can come up with, not one which can hire Westerners to do 90% of the mental gymnastics for them.

They can surely do it. So, we wait.

But something tells me it's going to be a Westerner who cracks that, and there we go again. Like the internet, the newest world-stupefying innovation will come from us. It's boring.