i5475p Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 After much reading and research here , I decided to order a 111H from DavidSen on Dec 5 , 2007 I must first say that he is very responsive to all emails with quick turnaround. Shipping was extremely quick as well. I received the watch in US after about 4 days.... very pleased. NOW, the complaint. I have 2 upgraded watch bands that I purchased before even receiving the watch. A Zuegma and a Kevin's Ammo straps. After placing the Zuegma strap ( $175 ) on the 111 I began to notice extreme wear and cuts on the top of the band after only a couple of hours. I put a couple of other bands on the watch and saw the same problem. I took the band off and noticed some extremely deep scratches on the casing near one of the pin holes. I took some pictures and tried posting them here for you guys to take a look but its hard to tell how deep they are. Ive havent read of this being an issue before and didnt know if they could bend and cause this issue. I would just like to know what your take on the situation would be. I have asked Davidsen for some help. He is giving me the option to send the watch back to him and he will replace the case. I wouldnt mind this except for the fact that it seems to really put me out quite a bit for a problem that seems to be with the watch quality. He wasnt comfortable sending me the replacement first and letting me use his packaging to send back to him, so....... I have now destroyed almost $200 in watch bands and out close to $400 for the watch itself. Now Im supposed to pay to ship it back and risk losing with customs. Should I just give up on this one and purchase one from TWP , Andrew or another trusted dealer? I really like Davidsen and think that this is an honest mistake I just worry that trying to fix the issue may end up costing me even more, if not losing the entire watch. Sorry for the complaints here from a newbie, just wanted some ideas. Thanks for having such an amazing forum , everyone here is so helpful. This place rocks. Just for the record , this is in no way bashing Davidsen, Overall its been a great transaction and the watch is almost perfect to me. We will see how things are resolved before the final verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkspepper Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'm also a newbie and I will be purchasing this exact same watch from Davidsen very soon but I have to post and say something on this issue... namely, we are buying contraband - even though we hear of good things from specific 'dealers', they are just that - dealers who are helpful in this respect because they are either good guys or want to keep a good reputation but ultimately, they have no real responsibilities after you receive the watch. Would you as a seller of any goods be comfortable to send out your goods to customers on a promise of a return? I know I wouldn't and neither would (m)any stores I know of unless they know the customer beforehand or had collateral. He is offering to replace the watch for you, I'm not sure what more you want - remember, these are not normal shops or products; they are dealers in contraband. From a personal position, I wouldn't have gone so public about this without at least letting Davidsen remedy the problem, as he said he would. Only after that is done and failed then I would've asked for advice on the forums. Sorry if I come across harsh or unreasonable, but that is my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Davidsen cases are slightly different than standard rep cases. One of the differences is that the lugholes are closer to the case. This makes really thick straps rub and fit too tight. I use Toscana/MP/GeF straps on my DSNs w/ no issues at all. I can't put thicker custom straps on my DSNs for the exact reason you state. I doubt him swapping out the case will fix this issue. It's an issue on all his cases unless he has some new different sized ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Torby pointed this out to me after i made him some straps, after that i have tried to thin down the leather at the lug end as much as possible to stop this happening, a normal rep case may not have this same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psymetry Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 The scrathes that you have shown, from what I can tell from the photos would not cause the strap wear. As bazonkers states, it's the thickness of the strap that seems the issue. Gen Panerai straps seem to be thinner than some third party straps and davidesen's cases are different. I can only echo bazonker as what he says is true. Maybe get a thinner strap and try to sell the ones you have. Look for one about 4mm and it shouldn't wear down. If you want to get rid of davidsens watch, you would have to consider a lower price as if you wanted the same amount you paid for it, people would rather deal with him directly as you have a low number of posts on the forum. Sorry dude, but it's just one of those things. Some third party straps are just too thick to wear well on some PAM reps...especially when the cases have been modified neaer to the gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i5475p Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Great points and thanks for the information. My main concern was sending the watch back as I have little experience in how to deal with the customs issues. ( Didnt want to lose the watch totally ) I am working with David and will keep those points in mind. I previously had one of Andrews 111's and never had the problem with these straps so I assumed it was this specific case. Sorry for the bother and thanks again for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Great points and thanks for the information. My main concern was sending the watch back as I have little experience in how to deal with the customs issues. ( Didnt want to lose the watch totally ) I am working with David and will keep those points in mind. I previously had one of Andrews 111's and never had the problem with these straps so I assumed it was this specific case. Sorry for the bother and thanks again for the info. It IS this specific case. The problem is, however, all of DSNs cases are like this. Reps from the other dealers won't have this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2528ca Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 i am waiting to hear back on an issue too. not bashing the guy, but paid over three bills for a watch only to have some qc issues that shouldnt have been there in the first place, with the same answer, send it back? why not make sure it is good in the first place so we dont have to send back? seems pretty straight forward no? i also don't want to ship back. trying to work out something with him. he is a good guy though. so we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) I'm also a newbie and I will be purchasing this exact same watch from Davidsen very soon but I have to post and say something on this issue... namely, we are buying contraband - even though we hear of good things from specific 'dealers', they are just that - dealers who are helpful in this respect because they are either good guys or want to keep a good reputation but ultimately, they have no real responsibilities after you receive the watch. The fact we are buying contraband is irrelevent. These people are businessman, the nature of their commodity is irrelevent. Dealers who are considered 'trusted collectors' have that position because of the quality of the service which they provide. If they want to stay in business, and want customers to trust them, then that means providing gaurantees on their product, and making replacements on faulty purchases. Would you as a seller of any goods be comfortable to send out your goods to customers on a promise of a return? I know I wouldn't and neither would (m)any stores I know of unless they know the customer beforehand or had collateral. He is offering to replace the watch for you, I'm not sure what more you want - remember, these are not normal shops or products; they are dealers in contraband. This is where it becomes slightly more complicated. He has offered to replace the watch case, which is scratched. That is good business, and, as with most dealers, comes under the catagory or replacing a faulty product. But. This is where the fun begins... Was the damage to the straps (which is undeniable) caused because the case was scratched, and thus having sharp edges, or because the strap was simply fitted too tightly to the case (by way of closer lug-holes) ? If it was caused by scratches on the case, then I would feel that some level of compensation towards the straps, which were damaged by faulty product, would be in order. If it was caused simply because the fit was tight, then that's unfortunate, but not the fault of the product, or the dealer. Again, the fact that they are dealing in contraband is irrelevent. They are operating businesses, and taking people's money. Money people have to work hard to earn. In that respect, if they wish to retain their status of 'trusted collectors', then it is in their interests to maintain positive customer relations, and to stand by their product in terms of after-sales care and returns. Daniel Craig summed it up perfectly in L4yer Cake: I mean it's like selling anything; washing machines, hand-made shoes, blow-jobs: As long as you don't take the [censored], people will always come back for more. From a personal position, I wouldn't have gone so public about this without at least letting Davidsen remedy the problem, as he said he would. Only after that is done and failed then I would've asked for advice on the forums. Sorry if I come across harsh or unreasonable, but that is my personal opinion. Well, opinions are just opinions, we're all entitled to our own. As above, the remedy from Davidsen would depend on the nature of the problem (ie was there a problem with the case, yes or no... If yes, did the problem cause the damage to the straps, yes or no... If yes, compensation would be appropriate, if no, then mere replacement of the case would be all that they, as a supplier, would be obliged to do.) Of course, it would be good PR to throw in a free strap as compensation, but that would be upto Davidsen's descretion, and not for a client (or community) to insist upon. Let the issue be judged on the facts as they are, and dealt with accordingly. I hope everything gets worked out in a mutually satisfactory way PS Welcome to the party Edited January 6, 2008 by TeeJay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Just a note i5475p, DSN now offers both cases, his own case as well as standard one with longer lugs and larger cutout between the lugs to acomodate thicker straps. If you can't live with the issue, send the watch back for case replacement, or simply ask him to send you his standard case, and you or your watchmaker can do the swap - but be careful again, the dial that fits his case is slightly larger in diametar, so you may need to trim it down to fit, which is undesirable as you paid for the fully moded product. DSN cases aren't standard, 'bazonkers' already pointed out the lug holes are positioned slighly higher and closer to the case, as well as the lugs are just a bit shorter. His cases also use almost unnoticeable cutout between the lugs, so closer in that respect to gens. One additional bit I like about DSN cases is that the lugs are more "elongated" in shape, which is again closer to the gen. The standard rep cases come with thicker lugs, more like the ones found on 5218-20X/a pre-V PAMs. cheers, babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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