*pretty much done* Some datejust questions

[llsteve80]

As some of you know, I am building another frankenjust (in slow motion), and I'm wondering if I might be mixing it up a little too much.

I have acquired a new style (2007) datejust band and clasp, similar to the ones seen on the newer daytonas, a MOP diamond dial (which I cracked) and a 16200 SS/WG case.

The case has lugholes, so I'm thinking that the combo of that and new style clasp may give it cause to be called out. What year did they start filling the holes in? And why then, didn't they change the case #?

Is there anyway to fill them in without looking shoddy?

I'm at work right now, but I'll post pics of everything I have so far, but it'll be a while because I'll have to do it when I get up around 3pm. I work nights.

A semi-funny and sad sidenote:

I went to 2 local jewelers who advertised themselves as watchsmiths and asked them if they could install my H4 canon pinion, 4th wheel and hour wheel and they all said "huh?" One of them never even heard of eta!

Anyway, thanks ahead for the input.

[Raijor]

I would build the watch that I want to wear and what other think be damned. That may not be realistic for you so I suggest that you not go overboard on mixing it up. Less is best here. Chances are you will be asked if it is real just beacuse it is Rolex. People seem to assume any Rolex is fake.

[llsteve80]

Here's some pics, sorry about the color being off, I haven't really had time to figure out my new camera. Sorry about the clutter too....shame on me, I just shoved everything out of the way

[stilty]

First question that comes to my mind is, does that bracelet fit the case? Is it the angle, or are the springbars not aligned with the lug holes?

There was a case that just ended on eBay with no lug holes for $199. pretty good deal as those cases are a hard find.

There is a process where the lug holes can be filled by welding, then sanded and polished. you can't even see the fill, but it is risky as you can damage the case by overheating with the weld. I don't recommend it unless you have some experience.

[llsteve80]

First question that comes to my mind is, does that bracelet fit the case? Is it the angle, or are the springbars not aligned with the lug holes?

There was a case that just ended on eBay with no lug holes for $199. pretty good deal as those cases are a hard find.

There is a process where the lug holes can be filled by welding, then sanded and polished. you can't even see the fill, but it is risky as you can damage the case by overheating with the weld. I don't recommend it unless you have some experience.

Dang, see I told my buddy to wait and maybe a no holes case would show up. He doesn't understand that taking your time is better. Hence the problems I've had. It's hard to find no holes cases on the bay.

I didn't install the springbars for the pics, thats all. I just wanted to give an idea of what it's going to look like.

[vmena]

Definitively you should not use modern bracelets (with SEL) with old/vintage cases, specially with holes. It scream fake from 20 miles away! There are rep bracelets with hollow end links pretty good and of a high quality, very difficult to spot. And it's not only a matter of having a case without holes. I had a 1998 DJ with no holes but having hollow ends.

I know that some time a go TommyH had a 2007 case to sell, but it was pricy (obviously as it must be). Try to contact him and maybe you'll have a winner.

[jdavis]

I believe that the no spring bar hole case first appeared in 2002 and was a different case design from the previous model. The shape of the case was designed to better contour to the shape of the wrist. FYI, the last digit in your five digit case number would be "4" if the watch was shipped with white gold accessories. The "0" indicates that it was shipped as all SS.

New style bracelets with solid end links will not fit the older "pin hole" cases due to the change in location of the pin holes.

I have seen them fitted by using bent spring bars but the fit was imperfect. I would contact one of our collectors and ask if an old style "open end link" bracelet was available or, search for a genuine older style bracelet. Your watch will appear authentic and your patience will not be tried by trying to fit the newer style bracelet to the older case.

Edited January 18, 2008 by jdavis

[llsteve80]

I believe that the no spring bar hole case first appeared in 2002 and was a different case design from the previous model. The shape of the case was designed to better contour to the shape of the wrist. FYI, the last digit in your five digit case number would be "4" if the watch was shipped with white gold accessories. The "0" indicates that it was shipped as all SS.

New style bracelets with solid end links will not fit the older "pin hole" cases due to the change in location of the pin holes.

I have seen them fitted by using bent spring bars but the fit was imperfect. I would contact one of our collectors and ask if an old style "open end link" bracelet was available or, search for a genuine older style bracelet. Your watch will appear authentic and your patience will not be tried by trying to fit the newer style bracelet to the older case.

I have the correct end pieces already, I just have them aside. It is a 16234 case, I just didn't have it near me anymore when I was typing and I figured everyone would take the 16200 as 162xx. My mistake. what I don't get is the no-holes and the holes case have the same ref# ? Or am I missing something here?

As for it screaming fake from 20 miles away, I'm not sure. Most people don't know that much anyway. Most of them automatically assume fake anyway when they see a rolex.

[jdavis]

Rolex did change the model numbers by adding a 1 to some of the case numbers. Case numbers now have six digits rather than five. For example, the 16233 became 116233. I suppose that all case parts will fit either case save for the bracelet. I really don't think that your watch will scream fake at all. As you say, most non informed watch people won't know the differences in the first place. Besides, you could simply say that you replaced your worn bracelet with the new design. BTW, I think that your watch is going to look great. I love the look of the diamond dial.

As an aside, when you asked your watchmaker if he could install your parts in your Eta movement, did you say E-T-A or Eta? I can't imagine any comptent watchsmith who hasn't heard of Eta movements. Perhaps he just didn't want the job. If he really doesn't know of it, you should move on with all haste.

Edited January 19, 2008 by jdavis

[stilty]

what I don't get is the no-holes and the holes case have the same ref# ? Or am I missing something here?

yeah, I've got a 16220 case that has holes, and a 16220 case that does not have holes. Just something Rolex did I guess. I'll check the series later. They both have bracelets on them and I'm kinda lazy to do it now. I think the holes case is an E series, and the no holes is A. I have to double check though.

[vmena]

IMHO, if you are going ton spend time, money and effort building a franken, do it as close as you can to the gen and try to use not only gen pieces but also match the age of them... you will finally have a balanced piece...

[llsteve80]

Rolex did change the model numbers by adding a 1 to some of the case numbers. Case numbers now have six digits rather than five. For example, the 16233 became 116233. I suppose that all case parts will fit either case save for the bracelet. I really don't think that your watch will scream fake at all. As you say, most non informed watch people won't know the differences in the first place. Besides, you could simply say that you replaced your worn bracelet with the new design. BTW, I think that your watch is going to look great. I love the look of the diamond dial.

As an aside, when you asked your watchmaker if he could install your parts in your Eta movement, did you say E-T-A or Eta? I can't imagine any comptent watchsmith who hasn't heard of Eta movements. Perhaps he just didn't want the job. If he really doesn't know of it, you should move on with all haste.

Right, I forgot about the extra 1, oops. I think it looks good right now, its almost done and ready to go on my pals writs. I said "Eta" and they looked at me like I should explain further or something. HA.

yeah, I've got a 16220 case that has holes, and a 16220 case that does not have holes. Just something Rolex did I guess. I'll check the series later. They both have bracelets on them and I'm kinda lazy to do it now. I think the holes case is an E series, and the no holes is A. I have to double check though.

Take your time. A and E serials you mean? I forgot what the serial is on this case, and I am also too lazy to take the band off.

IMHO, if you are going ton spend time, money and effort building a franken, do it as close as you can to the gen and try to use not only gen pieces but also match the age of them... you will finally have a balanced piece...

Well, I'll put some pics up very soon, just have to take them.

[llsteve80]

Here's some pics.

My buddy said forget the MOP for now until we can find a good one, and for a good price, so I put the one that came with the case on for now. The hands cleared the markers ( no bending...) and the datewheel lined up perfectly on the 1st try. Love when that happens.

I have to trim the plastic spacer down a bit so that the case back sits flush, but other than that its ready to go. Just watching it to see that it's working correctly and that the dial isn't too tight against the movement so the date changes freely. Oh, and it changes at 12:00:01...good enough for me.

As for the lug holes, I told him to explain that the band was replaced, thats all, but who will notice anyway? Rep owners and people who buy lots of used watches to sell or collect, thats it. The Zigmeister suggested, or mentioned that some have had success with silver solder in filling them in, but I'll try that on some junk cases I have. No MAPP gas on this baby!

I tried for an hour to get the crown to screw down with the coronet straight up, but no luck. Once I build my nicotine levels back up, maybe I'll give it another shot.

Oh, and BTW, 6MM crown right? Because I also have a 5.33 and I don't even know what those go on, mid-size and airkings maybe?

I'm going to have to wear it for a few days to "test" it before I send it to him now

[vmena]

It's a beauty! congratulations... well done

[Dizzy]

Thats a beautiful watch! I love the lug holes! Dont you dare change that case!!

[SportsterRider]

Looks fantastic!

I'm 'sorta' done with my Franken 16014. I've still got to come up with a way to attach the dial to the movement (I bought dial feet from JB and will experiment on a throw away dial with some different epoxies). Right now, its just being held together with the movement clamps (a real PITA lining up the date window when putting it together this way!).

You mentioned that you used a plastic movement spacer - have you considered a steel/brass one instead? I used one from a Yachtmaster rep that I no longer had any interest in and it worked great. The inner diameter is already correct for the ETA movement, so all I had to do was remove some material from the outside of the spacer until it fit the 16014 case. Bought some movement clamps and re-used the screws from the Yacht and it works great.

I'll try to get some pics posted soon.

Again, nicely done!

SR

[llsteve80]

Looks fantastic!

I'm 'sorta' done with my Franken 16014. I've still got to come up with a way to attach the dial to the movement (I bought dial feet from JB and will experiment on a throw away dial with some different epoxies). Right now, its just being held together with the movement clamps (a real PITA lining up the date window when putting it together this way!).

You mentioned that you used a plastic movement spacer - have you considered a steel/brass one instead? I used one from a Yachtmaster rep that I no longer had any interest in and it worked great. The inner diameter is already correct for the ETA movement, so all I had to do was remove some material from the outside of the spacer until it fit the 16014 case. Bought some movement clamps and re-used the screws from the Yacht and it works great.

I'll try to get some pics posted soon.

Again, nicely done!

SR

I had some brass and steel ones for eta, but I cant find them..... Anyway, the watch is already 2 grams over gen weight which for SS is supposed to be 107 grams I guess, so thats good. I don't really like the plastic spacers, but oh well. They do trim down in 1/10th the time though.

To get the dials on I use this glue that is somewhat like rubber cement, but when it's dry its almost as strong as super glue, but can be removed with a razor if you need to. It gets semi stick after about 2 minutes, then I am able to still move the dial around and get it perfect before it sets all the way. I put it on with a toothpick, I love the stuff, but it's messy so caution is key since I don't want any glue getting anywhere on the movement. It's called power poxy stix-on contact.

Are you going to throw some teaser pics up here soon? Or just wait until you're finished?

Thanks everyone for your comments, and a big thanks to everyone who helped me find parts and gave advice and help!

[stilty]

good job. I'm glad it came together for you. what did you use for the overlay?

[llsteve80]

good job. I'm glad it came together for you. what did you use for the overlay?

Cubic-works.... I've seen sharper fonts but this is pretty good. Very thin too. Another slow shipper though. IMO, datewheels are the hardest part, hardest to find, glue and line up so I'm happy this one turned out pretty painless.