Ztech Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Ok finally I got around to taking some pics of my first rep purchase, the PAM127 Fiddy. I purchased this from another forum member for $450, but unfortunately I'm very dissapointed with how it arrived. Unfortunately, I diassembled the watch before taking any pictures so I only have what I have now. The pictures... Hosted on Fotki I don't know if you can see it from this pic, but there is a scratch/stain/mark between the 1950 and the center hole for the hands. It was even more evident under the crystal and in daylight or under lights. Hosted on Fotki I don't know much about movements, but this one is very clean and seems to run quite well. That's one positive. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki The watch was used, so the case had numerous little knicks and scratches. I purchased one of those scratch remover kits and used it to give the entire case a once over. Looks nice now don't you think? Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki The CG was in terrible shape. Although I don't have a before pic, the lever portion stuck out 1mm or so beyond the CG and it was looser than a cheap hooker. So I took some sand paper and my dremel tool to grind it flush and gave it a once over. What you see is the finished product in the pics. I also used a set of plyers to pinch the CG down on the lever so to take out some space between the lever and the CG itself. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Those are the pics of the scratched hands. I don't know if these pics capture it right but it's there and it looked even worse under the mag of the domed crystal. In certain angles and lighting conditions it looks terrible enough that I didn't want to wear it out. Have yet to do it and now since it's apart I won't till I get some work done on her. Overall, the watch was ok. It's just that the seller lied about the scratches on the hands, I asked him and he denied it, and the stain/mark on the dial. When the watch arrived it was missing a screw for the CG, which still hasn't made it's way to me even though the seller states that he sent it twice. I've asked the seller nicely to see if we could meet at some compromise, but it seems he must need the money more than I do. I think if I can get some new hands/dail and have them super lumed I should be able to be satisfied. The thing is by then, this watch is going to have cost me $700+ probably. A lesson learned I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendushi Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 You paid how much??!! I would have sold you the same watch with a DSN crystal + the original crystal for much, much less... Good to see that you can do your own mods / repairs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 You paid how much??!! I would have sold you the same watch with a DSN crystal + the original crystal for much, much less... Good to see that you can do your own mods / repairs... Oh no. I wish I could do my own repairs/mods. All I can do is look stupid and take things apart. Putting them back together correctly is another story all together. I'm going to have the watch sent out to a reputable modder to have the work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Well taking them apart is the start of the learning process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifterCatcher Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Braver than me to take it apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ztech, I feel bad. I remember that transaction, and patting you on the back after you purchased it. I'm so sorry it didn't work out. I've had better luck on the forums than you, but then I'd personally never pay more than $250 for any watch bought from a member. Hard feelings might occur, if so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Thanks guys. Well, luckily for me it wasn't a large sum of money and I just chualk it up to 1. it's a learning experience 2. if the guy needed the money that bad... well... 3. I've had worse experiences with purchases with gen stuff that made me go nuts. Now that I do have her though, I'd like to see if I can collect enough parts to get her fixed up enough to get her to the prom. I do like the size and huge domed crystal on her. So you never know, it might not be too later for her afterall. You can't keep this Marine down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Good for you on making the best of a difficult situation. I recommend that everyone take a junker or buy a cheapie and take it apart. Even if you can't get it back together it is a good learning experience and fun. I was doing great until I had to take apart the movement. You know those movies when you get your car back and they hand you a bunch of parts and inform you your car no longer needs them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Good for you on making the best of a difficult situation. I recommend that everyone take a junker or buy a cheapie and take it apart. Even if you can't get it back together it is a good learning experience and fun. I was doing great until I had to take apart the movement. You know those movies when you get your car back and they hand you a bunch of parts and inform you your car no longer needs them. I did just that kruzer. I got a 6497 w/o the bridges, the one that's got large 2 piece bridges? Well, I got the entire thing apart down to all those cogs and stuff. The take down was easy, but the re-assembly wasn't. I used my digicam to take pics along the way so I could remember what went where and got her all back together. For some odd reason, the thing won't work now. I guess I'd better leave that stuff for the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I am also learning how to do very simple modding to build my own frankenstein watches. As others have pointed out, taking a watch apart is a great learning experience and should increase your confidence over time to handle larger projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvspl Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Wow i remember this 127 i almost bought it also but the seller was very dishonest saying i never sent him a message confirming payment when i did. I'm sorry to hear what happened to you I guess its a lesson learned. Its funny he made it sound like it was such a modded watch and one of the best PAM 127's out there. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I see what you mean about the stain on the dial and the scratched hands. Those are pretty shocking. The movement looks great though, and if the case/cgs have come up nicely, you could indeed have the beginings of a good project watch I'm sure a skilled modder will be able to breathe life back into it PS Two cg screws missing in the post? I suspect someone is telling you fibs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 That movement is great. You may find a Fiddy with good dial and hands, just incorrect movement and glass crystal, at about 80-90 USD on the net. Use it for parts, and have fun with its movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Wow i remember this 127 i almost bought it also but the seller was very dishonest saying i never sent him a message confirming payment when i did. I'm sorry to hear what happened to you I guess its a lesson learned. Its funny he made it sound like it was such a modded watch and one of the best PAM 127's out there. lol Yes, I was surprised that he felt the need to lie to sell a watch. He's got a few others stuff on sale as we speak so I hope whoever deals with him will have better luck than I. That movement is great. You may find a Fiddy with good dial and hands, just incorrect movement and glass crystal, at about 80-90 USD on the net. Use it for parts, and have fun with its movement. Hey sssurfer, do you have a link to one for that price? I've seen some for $200 but not for under $100. For that cost, I think I could just by it for the parts. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hey sssurfer, do you have a link to one for that price? I've seen some for $200 but not for under $100. For that cost, I think I could just by it for the parts. Thanks. Mark used to have a few. Unfortunately his pics seem not loading on my PC right now, so I cannot check the quality, but here is one. Also Tony has some on this page. Don't believe the listed prices, Tony can go down to 50% off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Mark used to have a few. Unfortunately his pics seem not loading on my PC right now, so I cannot check the quality, but here is one. Also Tony has some on this page. Don't believe the listed prices, Tony can go down to 50% off. Great, thanks for the info sssurfer. I'll get this Fiddy back in the game if it kills me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 You could check Angus for a spare dial and handsset. I think they are around $30-$40 excl. shipping. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Good luck on your project Z, I hope it will work out for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Thanks guys. You've all inspired me to get this girl back in the game. It'd be a shame if she sat in my drawer and got no love. I'm exchanging e-mails with Tony as we speak and he's got a 127 for $108, which should be able to donate some parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Wow. The guys I bought the Fiddy from is really testing my patience. He said he'd send me the missing screw for the CG. This is what... like 3 weeks ago now? Then today, I get an empty envelope addressed to me. I know it must be him because it's got a stamp from Canada and I haven't bought/ordered anything from Canada. Wow, is this guy something or what? Now I can be a bigger man, but this guy is really something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Virtually every private deal I have done has lead to me having to do some level of repair or reconditioning on the watch. I chalk it up to the fact that I am very picky about my watches, and my definition of pristine differs from others. My SFSO, described as "scratch free" showed up with a gouged caseback and a light scratch on the mineral crystal. The problem is that our sales sections have become so popular, that decently priced watches sell almost immediately. You don't have time to ask questions, request better pictures, or do any research. I've come to expect these imperfections when buying used, and have become pretty adept at fixing cosmetic issues. The days of "full disclosure" from sellers seems to be long gone, and its now "buyer beware". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avara Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 I discovered this thread only this morning, so excuse me that I didn't speak earlier. First of all, to get the Fiddy that I sold I had to buy three different versions of these watches. To get the movement, to get the 0117 case, do get a decent dial with creamy Panerai lettering. I got something from each watch... Then I ordered the proper crystal from Davidsen and a set of superlumed hands. Whoever done it knows, that he ships his hands in a small baggy... That results in some scratches as the surface of these hands is more of a soft metal. I paid $40 for the hands + shipping and the WU fees. When they arrived, they had a lot of scratches, out of the box. I wasn't happy with that, so I paid again and ordered another set. That's the one that's been installed on the watch. Now the buyer asked me about the hands, and I told him this very same story trough PM. I also told him, that for me the second set was acceptable, and I would rate it satisfactory, but everyones standards are just different... Whoever, that has ordered a set of hands from Davidsen can chime in and have a say about the condition his hands arrive? And there are no alternatives... As I said, these hand were the best I could get, and I didn't spare any expense to get the best possible set. Obviously the buyer has never seen a Fiddy and has no clue what had to be done to assemble a watch that he bought for half of what it did cost.. He had no crystal breaking on him, no cannon pin upgrade done, has no clue about different cases and he didn't have to purchase all these versions and parts, just to get one good Fiddy together. Anyway, so much about hands. The Zigmeister pressed in the crystal for me and vaccum relumed the dial. I was happy with everything as those jobs were professionally done and I haven't seen a "scratch" on the dial. I took detailed pictures of the whole watch for the interested parties to decide if this watch was up to their standards. The CG too. And again, out of three Fiddies that I purchased non of the CG was good enough and I finally got one from Jay that was installed on the watch. Complaining about the CG after he has seen all the detailed shots of the watch, after the effort I made to get the very best parts..? Then I ordered the cannon pin part and had a local watch smith install that for me. Also, there was a $120 dollar SC strap included in the price. And again I paid shipping charges, WU fees... Now, all the fellow members here, that rated this watch to be a $200 watch have probably never gone trough the expenses of building their own Ultimate Fiddy. (The crystal and the strap alone was $250 with fees and shipping) Other alternative would be Davidsen's 1950, but currently he has no more movements with dagger needle and swan neck and he won't be able to restock them until who knows when. And there are also some other issues... OK, back to this buyer. I had literally PMs coming every minute on different boards from parties interested in this watch. Some of them backed out, some promised to purchase the watch and didn't answer right away, this guy was the first who paid. I offered PayPal so I requested not to mention anything about RWG, replica or about watches in general on the invoice. Well, this guy just couldn't follow simple instructions, and he did. So I refunded his money. That's how bad I needed them (LOL). In the meantime, some other folk paid, but this guy said he wants to try the payment again, because he likes the watch. I refunded the other guy, and gave him one more chance to make the payment properly. I tried to be fair to the interested parties. He was the one who initially made a payment, so I wanted him to get the watch. Anyway, I absorbed PayPal fees and I shipped the watch via XpressPost, that left me with $410. The firs reaction a received from him, was that the watch is dirty. So what the hell, it was I used watch. Then he responded with "it looked much better on the pictures than it does in real life" ect. Then I knew, this guy have seen a Fiddy for first time in his life and the dream and the reality have collided. But is that my fault? With all due respect I am not Wal Mart. I can't afford to ship the watch to everyone who wants to test drive it. He also complained about the screw missing from the CG. That was a bit strange, because I had the watch on the previous night and I didn't notice anything. So I sent him a screw as I have many from all those Fiddes that I purchased... A week later he PMs me saying he didn't receive it. I agreed to send him another one, and I did. Now yesterday he PMs me and says the envelope was empty. I suggested to take a second look because I put a small screw in a small baggy that I put in the envelope. He PMs me back saying. OK, the baggy is there, but it's empty. At that point I had enough of him. I had it with this guy and I never ever sell any modded watch to a noob. I told him that, so "he decided to go public". The thing is, that I spent over $750 + shipping and WU fees to make this watch. I had the very best of our modders work on it. I told this guy, that if he sees something on the dial, I haven't seen that and I am certainly not gonna chase vaccum around after 8 months. That picture that he showed must be enhanced in Photoshop or who knows. And all of you who think this watch should cost $200 are free to PM me, I am gonna buy those watches off of you. I must tell you, that I won't be watching this thread every day. I've already spent too much time on this case. I am selling all my reps, and buying genuine watches only for a while now. That's how bad I needed his $410 that I've spent over $750 on. I only have two more reps left for sale that are in the sales thread. To sum it up. This guy subscribed a month ago to this board and right away he wanted the "best". He is a young, unexperienced guy, who wanted something he would never get in the rep world: PERFECTION. He got disappointed and he lied a bit, to enhance his "own truth". He would have been better off if he would have bought few cheap reps first and dealt with some of the issues with Chinese dealers to understand this world. Read a bit more, may be even become a supporter of this site... But I must admit, he's got a lot of balls to take apart a watch like that and separate a sandwich dial that I paid $140 to get superlumed. So all you smart asses, I am awaiting your $200 modded Fiddy offers upgraded with SC straps, Davidsen crystal, superlumed dial, cannon pinion upgrade, 0117 case and a Swiss Swan neck dagger shaped needle movements. Then I'll post a bashing thread about you, how you screwed me over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panera Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Woovv. Quite sharp and clear explanation............................ I can understand you pain avara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ok, now I've had it with you. First, yes this was my 1st rep purchase so I didn't know it was illegal to state the word "watch" in Paypal. Yes, you refunded my money and then I turned right around and sent you another payment. So I have no idea why you even state this in your thread. Is there a point? Next, you go on about how much this and that cost you... does that have any significance with our transaction? Also, you continue to dodge the main issue at hand here. I asked you, point blank, about the scratched hands to which, you answered, no the hands are fine. Do you have the proper command of the English language or are you just conveniently forgetting this part? Then there's a stain/mark on the dial, which is clearly visible in my pictures. Those two points I made with you expressly in my PM's with you. Yeah, those PM's that you conveniently ignored while you were still posting for sale threads on this forum. I gave you plenty of time to make some sort of compromise for your deception. You chose to do nothing. You stated that you sent an envelope, I never got anything from you. Then I get an empty envelope with a plastic bag inside. That was the last straw. You continue to try to dodge what you did via your deceptive sales practices by merely stating that I'm a noob and that I'm looking for perfection. Are you a moron? What does that fact that I'm a noob have to do with this? I'm a mature adult, one who's been involved in the real world of watches, gen or rep. On top of that, I know when I've been decieved. You're a bu11sh1ter plain and simple and your poor excuses mean nothing. And trying to deflect the true issue at hand by trying to attack me personally serves nothing. I'm sure everyone can see what's going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avara Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 OK, I'll sum it up one more time. You lied, because you've received the screw. You know that, and you still keep lieing to save your face? First you said you have received an empty envelope, after I told you to take another look, you corrected it to an envelope with an empty baggy inside. So was it an empty envelope or an envelope with empty baggy inside. And why would I do that? I went to the post office, pay the postage and mail you an empty envelope? I tried to make it right... I am not even sure whether you were missing the screw at all. I think the watch in reality was something different from the one in your "dreams". You came up with all those excuses because you've changed your mind. And you got upset when I told you that I didn't spend two days talking to buyers to give you a chance to see, if this Fiddy is for you. Did I tell you about the two sets of hands I had to order from Davidsen? Did I tell you the first one was scratched? I did! The one installed was OK. The best you can get from Davidsen. You wont get a "pristine" superlumed hand set from Davidsen. At least you couldn't get one at the time I was in the market for one. The fact that you complain about those hands has a lot to do with you being unexperienced, if you wanna call it that. You didn't know that you can't mention anything about reps on the invoice? I explicitly asked you not to do that before you even paid. You knew that and now you lied again saying that you didn't know. You drag this case here and accuse me of wrongdoing? You lie here to gain sympathy to justify your action? You've received the best there is for half the price it would cost you to assemble one yourself that you have no appreciation for, because you didn't go trough the process of achieving that by yourself. And your lynch mob that you've recruited here has no clue either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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