EuroTimez 14kt TT Strap Test

[EuroTimez]

Hi guys.

EDIT- PLEASE READ post #21 ---- for update. EDIT CLOSE

FINAL RESULT PROFESSIONAL GOLD TESTING CENTER ---See post 27---

I finally did some test, more to come + videos. Let the pics speak for itself. Read original status update of the TT NOOB 14k solid GOLD HERE and pics of my TT-NOOB- or read BY-TOR REVIEW 16613 review here.

I also made a complete video of this event.

For all interested please send an e-mail to info.eurotimez@gmail.com

Test are totally unedited, except for cropping and prepared for webready with my logo (so nobody will abuse it). so you can see it from a close up. No photoshop anything else used.

Oh I also quoted too high estimation 650 usd in my thread (as i work with 4 different currencies, thai baht, chinese rmb, euro, usd) it is only about 550-620 incl shipping depending + full inspection if I can make a good deal with my supplier.

SHIPMENTS CAN BE MADE FROM WITHIN !!!!EU!!!!

FULL INSPECTION INCLUDE

-Bezel constructions/rotation (and if the glued on properly)

-Pearl (if its acceptable as at times you really have misshaped ugly pearls)

-Glass / date-window (at times the magnifying glass on the saphire isn't straight over the date so the glass needs to be removed/turned/reinstalled)

-All screws will be checked (at times some screws cannot be un-screwed and brakes within the bracelet or impossible to remove)

-Clasp (open/closes correctly)

-Crown (if the crown is lubricated enough, at times when pulling it out, it will jump to the 2nd position -date change- instead of the 1st -handwind- also at times the crown won't go smoothly in or out, etc)

-Overal quality/build.

-All gaskets and rubbers will be oiled for water-resistant!!!

High QC

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?act=fi...&pid=438734

ALL E-MAILS TO INFO.EUROTIMEZ@GMAIL.COM ( I dont respond rapidly on PMs so please don't send me any )

VIDEO's I WILL WORK ON and UPLOAD WITHIN A FEW DAYS.

Edited April 20, 2008 by EuroTimez

[310jag]

From the pics, I think this really looks like something that is worth some consideration.

However, working in the business, I find it difficult to pull off, considering the amount of gold content required, and the price it is projected to sell for. Although if it is as good as it seems, it's definitely worth buying. My biggest hang up is not proving that the gold is solid, but that it is indeed 14k. If someone would be willing to send someone a bracelet, or even and individual link (to be returned, of course), I would be more than glad to perform a scratch/acid test at work to confirm the karat.

Just throwing that out there..

Edited April 13, 2008 by 310jag

[freddy333]

That is a pretty impressive demonstration. I still find it hard to believe you can get solid 14k gold midlinks in a rep watch that costs, in total, considerably less than the gold itself is worth on the present market. But still an impressive demo.

[Chronus]

I paid quite a lot to luckyyy (when he was still in business) for a MBW sub with solid gold midlinks.... they do exist but I'd think they are not easy to get, you'd have to test each one. PreciousTime had different ones with solid gold midlinks for a while before his supplier started giving him plated ones and some were not happy. He'd had a similar test to show the solid gold... but you really need to test each watch to make sure.

[Chronus]

Also, we know there *are* some rare reps with solid gold - the FM 18k Casablanca and TwoTone's two-tone Santos 100 with solid gold bezel spring to mind...

[Corgi]

It's hollowed-out midlinks? The original is completely 100% solid I believe... meaning the weight will still be off. Also, the price does seem "too good to be true". I have a suspicion these might be the classic Chinese 10k solid gold with plated 14k... otherwise the price is a steal and you should just buy as many as you can and melt them down and sell them for profit to a local gold purchasing agency..

[EuroTimez]

I know that there is some sort healthy skeptism, and that is rightfully so... AT times it hard to take your word from the supplier, I'm working out to get one link acid tested and I think somebody offered me as well, I gotta reply to his PM. I def want to make sure IT IS what I CLAIM it is, as it is my name on the line.

But do consider this that it is not just "talk" but I've been wearing my personal watch (I own two-tones) for almost 2 years, I polished it now 4 times (polished it like 3 days ago again) and still in topnotch condition NO SIGN OF WEAR OR TEAR whatsoever. Please check out my original feed where you can see the difference between SOLID 14k and WRAPPED 14k which wears and fades....

For me I'm totally fine with the Idea that it's 14k Gold, but my main concern is that it doesn't wear or fade. MBK said also that the gold on their watches Rolex TT was Garanteed---that it would never fade or wear-----?! But you have to take this at face value...... AS THIS I CANNOT SAY FROM EXPERIENCE.

WHAT I DO CAN SAY IS that I've been selling these pieces for almost 2 years (even before I decided to own one myself) and never has any piece ever been brought back because the Gold faded!! My personal piece used to be my dailer beater, and I regulary swim in the beach and pool with it (AS I LIVE ON A TROPICAL ISLAND) even the bezel still looks as new (but the older bezel were heavier plated then the newer ones tho).

Kind regards

Chris

Still - buying real precious metal or jewelry with precious stomes (ABay's 3k diamond encrusted watch) from China is like thinking you would get a great deal buying off a low mileage car from your backdoor dealer where you just KNOW he adjusted the odometer...

[perry563]

How about the end links???????? If these are plated and wear then it does not matter that the rest of the links are 100% gold. Also.....is the bezel and crown gold or gold plated???

[Stephane]

I still find it hard to believe you can get solid 14k gold midlinks in a rep watch that costs, in total, considerably less than the gold itself is worth on the present market.

But still an impressive demo.

This can simply not happen but if it does, then I'll order a dozen

[By-Tor]

It's hollowed-out midlinks? The original is completely 100% solid I believe...

No they're not. I've handled a gen TT Sub many times, I guarantee you that they're hollow. I doubt the TT Sub is many grams heavier than the stainless steel version. Even the TT Yacht-Master has hollow middle links, although they're solid on the SS version.

Maybe the gold isn't 14K... maybe it is, but I think it's safe to say it's "solid", whatever the carat number is. From the practical standpoint I guess the more important thing is that it won't wear off, right?

[perry563]

With hollow midlinks there probably is not as much gold on that watch as one would think.

[Watchmeister]

Rolex "gold" reps always concern me. And what scares me about "solid gold reps" is that neither the dealer nor the buyer knows what he/she is selling or buying. Each watch can be different and so it would have to be individually tested. I have no idea what the gold weight is on a TT sub but I do know that at current gold prices each ounce of 14k content gold should theoretically cost $550-$600 per ounce before casting. Can anyone tell me what the gold parts of this watch actually weigh in total?

Having said all that if it is plating and it is really holds up well it may be worth the $550-600. If it is PVD-based gold plating it will hold up to everything other than a direct hardcore scratch. It does not wear away.

[perry563]

Gold is selling for over 900 US dollars an oz.

Gold is selling for over 900 US dollars an oz.

[By-Tor]

Agreed with Kruzer. The whole gold issue has ALWAYS been problematic. I remember some pretty heated TT Sub debates from TRC, even from years ago.

here and here are the Precious Time gold threads, which both contain a lot of good info and opinions.

As far as I know, Eurotimez put the sales of this watch on hold until the issue gets solved completely. That was a classy move, imho. Perhaps he could send one gold link to an independent party, who has the technical ability to test it?

[indyberetta]

Years ago many dealers were selling sold gold midlink bands with their watches for an extra $150 a piece. I did a test back then (8 years ago or so) and they tested out to be 9kt-10kt gold. The strange thing was the color was dead on. I guess it has to do with what metal they mix with the gold to make the band.

To me it is very important that the gold does not wear off and can be polished. With so many aftermarket band placed on gen Rolex watches it is impossible to call out a rep because of the band. You could though easily call it out if the gold was wearing off.

I had a watch dealer/repair person for many years that was selling me 10kt replacement bands that I would change my rep bands with. I would just transfer the rolex marked parts to the new band. They cost me about $150 also and they were an easy way to upgrade my reps to real gold bands. The dealer passed away about 2 years ago and I have yet to find his "source". I could get these in both jubilee and oyster versions.

At 10kt the gold content is worth probably about $120 even at $1k a kt I believe.

No one should have a concern with what they are buying if they trust their dealer. I am sure if a honest dealer makes a statement and it is not so, they would refund your money or get you a replacement. The entire issue in the rep trade is TRUST. Know your dealer and if they stand behind their product!

[By-Tor]

This is what our own Kenberg posted in the PT thread:

nothing wrong with 14k gold just as there is nothing wrong with 9k, believe me we have gold of all denominations in our household (9,10,14,18,22,24 and a couple others I'm sure) it's how that gold is used that makes it special no what carat it is.

[Chronus]

Also, a problem with reps will be that the clasp will be plated ... so is the genuine, I think. The genuine crown is also plated, as solid gold is too soft for long-term use. The rep bezels are probably plated while the genuine maybe solid.

There was a guy on ebay that sold aftermarket parts that are solid gold... the endlinks of his band was plated though. Solid gold bezel was available I think.

[EuroTimez]

Hi, I just woke up after a late Thai newyear party. I updated my own post on the 14k issue as what the ppl are saying is true.

I HAVEN'T, AGAIN I HAVEN'T CONFIRMED IT to BE 14k, Read all my old post and read my updated one.

I didnt sold any single piece yet! In any other case I have to base my price on what I buy them for!! Like I said I can only give my word on my experience and what you guys can see from the tests.

Please read here for update, and I will update my claims and remove 14k so that it's less confusing on my other post as well. I just know that it doesn't fade and "looks" pretty solid as the first few test show. I also said more test are to come...

And also look in this thread for the pics of the so called "14k wrapped" gold vs my so called "??k solid gold" TT straps.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=70871

[EuroTimez]

To make it more accurate, I didn't sold any piece on the FORUM since I started as a dealer yet!

[Jimmythree]

quote =

I paid quite a lot to luckyyy (when he was still in business) for a MBW sub with solid gold midlinks.... they do exist but I'd think they are not easy to get, you'd have to test each one. PreciousTime had different ones with solid gold midlinks for a while before his supplier started giving him plated ones and some were not happy. He'd had a similar test to show the solid gold... but you really need to test each watch to make sure.

/quote

I have been around genuine and replica watches a looong time and have seen quite a few replicas with solid gold in them.

About 5 years ago, a lot of tutone DJ showed up with solid gold mid links in the jubilee bracelets and solid gold bezels. They were supposed to be 14k but when tested the gold was about 10k. I removed the bezels on a few and had them tested along with the bottom of a few center links. None were above 10k. The crowns were heavy gold plated.

The watches looked good though. At the time gold was around $400/troyoz and the watches sold for $750. A solid gold (claimed to be 18k) prez was $2000 to $3000 depending on bezels, dials etc but we never tested one. All the watches had 25 jewel etas in them and sapphire crystals...the crystals were aftmkt replacements.

Fast forward to March 2008...

I decided to make one up just to see how much it would cost.

1...new tutone black dial replica DJ with eta 25 jewel movement = $175 iirc, it's from 3 years ago

2...replica clasp = $0 (took it from the DJ)

3...ss/14k high quality 22 link Italy made jubilee with regular weight center links = $530 today's price

** heavy weight center link bracelet is $620 today...4 years ago they were $299 for light center link and $359 for heavy c/l

4...used genuine 18k DJ bezel from watch show = $150

** the bezel was worn where some idiot tried to polish it so I turned it down to a smooth bezel

5...genuine used crown = $25

6...new genuine case tube, sealing washer and gasket = $15

7...new aftmkt oem spec swiss made sapphire crystal and gasket = $40

8...new stainless springbars (3) = 30 cents

9...new clasp rivet set and reinforcing tube = 50 cents

10...caseback gasket = 50 cents

total = about $935US (counting $0 for labor and shipping cost)

Figure a 'collector' pays around $125 to $150 for a swiss eta sub in steel/gold plate.

Add a 14k solid center link bracelet for $300 = $450 cost. (there's quite a bit of gold in a 12 or 13 link oyster bracelet)

Add a solid 14k bezel for $150 and it jumps to $600 cost. (a solid 8k aftmkt sub bezel was $99 in 7-07, today they are $199, aftmkt 18k was $299, today they are $499...there's not much gold in sub or gmt bezels)

Add a genuine crown and case tube and it jumps to about $700 cost.

Flash back 4 years and the difference in the bracelet price would make the DJ project watch cost about $715.

Someone making these watches today with four year old bracelets will charge today's prices for the bracelets...not the four years ago price.

Today, cheapo ss/14k bracelets are around $300 to $400 (the links are sometimes uneven on the bottom side and look ratty).

Unknown karat weight tutone bracelets are around $250 (anywhere from 6k up).

High quality ss/14k Italian bracelets are around $500 (good fit and finish, no question on karat content).

A few years ago I saw some $199 tutone jubilee bracelets that were claimed to be ss/14k...we tested one and the center links were heavy gold plate over brass and they had a piece of plated brass soldered on the hoods. The plating was very heavy, by the time it wore through to the brass you forgot where you got it.

[Noel Fleischer]

Sure the gold in the reps is worth around 120 US$ to what PT has calculated - that used to be one of his arguments - why would they sell plated stuff if the real gold amount is so little it doesn't cost so much. I tell you - those reps don't cost 200$ wholesale in China, so the full gold would hit the price considerably and with percentual markup, those watches would be $$$ish.

It's not a matter of wearing off, as some are dual layer gold links which will most likely never wear off. I bet that the Chinese industry has developed many ways to counterfeit gold or jewellry, they are not stupid, their developments are of excellent nature. It's easy to create a base 5-9Carat gold link and plating over it with 14-18K. Wonder what comes next. Some sort of heavy metal alloy that looks like gold but is not. And is poisonous for your wrist.

Genuine TT Rolexes are btw indeed hollow midlinked and have 18K links, not 14K. Clasp is plated as said beore and the endlinks are a three part costruction.

I have a TT Daytona from one of the scam sites that i bought 1 1/2 years ago. it tested out @ 10-12kt with a scratch

test. i'm sure the bezel is plated. ideal and the rest of these sites claim solid bezels and crowns!

[archibald]

I always say this in these threads: It doesn't matter if the links are solid 14K or not. What are you going to do, let people weigh your watch? Anyone who knows enough about gold or TT Rolexes to call you out on the gold is going to call you out on the color not the weight--and 14 K gold is instantly noticeable. Much better to invest in aPVD plated piece, especially if the maker takes the time to accurately match Rolex's proprietary shade of gold. It won't fade or rub off and ultimately it will be much much more accurate than a 14K piece, solid or not as long as you keep it on your wrist, which is what should happen with reps anyway.

I think there would be a huge demand from serious Rolex collectors for pieces with durable plating that matches Rolex's color--especially in the TT sub. I understand that PVD gold can match any shade under the sun...no worries about 14K, no drilling holes in perfectly good links.

[By-Tor]

and 14 K gold is instantly noticeable.

Is it really? I used to think that as well. It certainly WAS on the older models.

But when I compare the rep I reviewed to the gen Ebay pics I don't see much difference. I'm sure there is some difference, but "instantly noticeable"? I definitely couldn't detect it without straight comparison. Perhaps the gold on the rep has a bit lighter, "yellower" tone... and the gen gold is more "rosy"?

[EuroTimez]

TT Noob solid Gold !FINAL UPDATE!

Hi guys,

There has been alot of inquiry about the solid gold strap noobmariners.

I

Edited April 19, 2008 by EuroTimez

[FxrAndy]

Well if that honesty does not deserve a gold star i dont know what does. Chris i am so glad you take the time and money to bring us this info, keep up the good work mate.