Discussion topic: Have we seen the end of high quality reps?

[RWG Technical]

I would gladly take an automatic watch with a Miyota 8215 as the engine. This movement is bullet proof, low cost, well made, and should last many years. At $40 each, when it does quit, I'll replace it with a new one.

I don't understand why they don't switch to the Miyota as the base automatic engine for these watches. It's much better quality than most of the clones I have seen. For a while the only Asian auto we had was interchangeable with the Miyota and made upgrading a good idea. But now we have all these DG series of movements, which I don't find are anyway near the quality of the Miyota.

A new Miyota is preferable to a old worn out ETA any day, and can't be much more in price.

Miyota for all automatic models, and A7750 or the Seagull model for the chrono's.

RG

[By-Tor]

The basic cheap 21J Seagull, etc. movements (inside the cheaper reps) have always been perfect and reliable for me. They usually have better power reserves... and most of the time they're very accurate. People at the gen forums have owned those cheap 21J Alpha watches for YEARS without any kind of problems.

If only they all had high beat 28.8k movements I wouldn't have ANY problem buying those, instead of ETA.

[EuroTimez]

read this topic, more ppl are getting burned with advertising markups, buyer pays for the advertised ETA 2836-2 movement gets a clone.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;#entry437682 (read here)

There is two ways a new dealer like myself can play along, keep my mouth shut and look the other way. Sell at "their" prices *and keep an hefty profit* , sell the same copy ETA or old recylced movements which not many will notice anyways and lable them as original ETA.

As most don't even have the tools to open the watch or even know where to look at.

Or ask the correct price and keep a minor/descent profit as ETA movement are very expensive nowaydays + I add value by the QC that I do. On a UPO there is a 75 usd difference from COPY to NEW ETA.

If the forum didn't took action in the past we wud still be advertised with SWISS 2892-A2, or SUPER-LUME eh Superb lume, even now today the ads still reads/says ASIAN ETA 2813?! It has happened in the past and it is still happening today!

I've seen very very clean and brandspanking new ETA movements so they are there. I garantee that in my swiss ETA Noobmariner is a complete new ETA movement I saw it. And I sold a few already they may testify if it is anything other than my claim.

@The Zigmeister the myota movement is more expensive than the DG-2813, like way more, every single cent counts when you produce asian reps on a 1.000.000 a month. Perhaps they're also easier to attain. As I've been selling also off the forum, most ppl who aren't forum-members don't know much about reps, if they know anything at all they know this.

Asian movement is BAD! and Swiss is Good! so to them it really doesn't matter (the larger rep buyers who are off forum) if it is a myota or a cheaper DG as it's all the same to them... ASIAN ---cheap quality in their eyes---. Why do you think they get scammed when Idealreplicas tell them its made the reps are made in Switzerland, or come with Italian movements, it's an idea that sells not the real facts and fig.

Same counts for water-resistance, it doesn't matter for the repmakers if the rep can go 100 meter or 5 meter, they don't make more money on it. So why spend more money.

[jerkulot]

Hmm just wanna make something clear- so the Miyota can be used to replace non chrono watches using asian 7750's and ETAs?

[RWG Technical]

Hmm just wanna make something clear- so the Miyota can be used to replace non chrono watches using asian 7750's and ETAs?

At one time, there was basically only one Asian automatic movement in reps. That movement was form fit and function the same as the Miyota 8215, and you could swap it out with the Miyota movement.

Since then, we have seen many changes and different asian movements come around, especially the DG series. I have not tried to replace a DG automatic with a Miyota and am not sure if it would work.

The Miyota has nothing to do with a 7750, it's a simple automatic movement. I just think it's a much better starting point than the DG series, but that's only my opinion.

If I had a choice, watch A with DG, or watch B with Miyota, I'll take watch B everytime...even if I had to add $25 to the total.

@ Eurotimez

Yes the DG2813 is about $15 and the Miyota almost $40, so it is more expensive. But, for the extra $25 you get a much better movement, well worth the $25.

My point is it's better to use a Miyota at $40 in a watch, than using a used old not oiled worn out ETA for $60 or more...

RG

[freddy333]

I would gladly take an automatic watch with a Miyota 8215 as the engine. This movement is bullet proof, low cost, well made, and should last many years. At $40 each, when it does quit, I'll replace it with a new one.

I don't understand why they don't switch to the Miyota as the base automatic engine for these watches. It's much better quality than most of the clones I have seen. For a while the only Asian auto we had was interchangeable with the Miyota and made upgrading a good idea. But now we have all these DG series of movements, which I don't find are anyway near the quality of the Miyota.

I am only guessing here, but I think the hesitancy to switch to Miyota is based on the long-held belief --right or wrong -- that, when it comes to mechanical timekeeping devices, Swiss-made is better than Japanese-made. Of course, Citizen (who owns Miyota) has an excellent track record for quality & innovation, but they are not a Swiss company & that is the hurdle. But after next year, I think we will begin seeing alot of Miyota movements arriving in our rep watches, at least the better 1s.

[RWG Technical]

I'll take a genuine Miyota Japanese movement over a copy Asian one any day of the week.

The only drawback and also advantage of the Miyota is that it is indirect center seconds driven, drawback for installing it in a modern watch, but a perfect movement for any vintage piece. All the older rollie's were indirect driven and also slower beat, you couldn't get a better combination if you tried.

It is a better choice than a 2846, since the 2846 is direct driven and doesn't have the characteristic indirect loosness of the seconds hand.

If only we had access to the factories, all the problems could be corrected and we could have amazing reps with great movements...think jewelled seconds at 6 7750's, Miyota powered vintage pieces, etc...dream on...

RG

[b16a2]

I am only guessing here, but I think the hesitancy to switch to Miyota is based on the long-held belief --right or wrong -- that, when it comes to mechanical timekeeping devices, Swiss-made is better than Japanese-made. Of course, Citizen (who owns Miyota) has an excellent track record for quality & innovation, but they are not a Swiss company & that is the hurdle. But after next year, I think we will begin seeing alot of Miyota movements arriving in our rep watches, at least the better 1s.

It is similiar to when the Japanese started importing cars into the UK. At the time it was novel, and many were scared to buy them. Look at them now though, I would take a Jap car over a European car anyday, maybe we will see the same with the movements!

[KB]

Could also be that traditionally China doesn't have a whole lot of love for Japan.......and vice versa

Ken

[teddy boy]

I wonder if we would resist $400-$500 reps so much if we could be absolutely certain that we're getting what we pay for such as swiss eta, sapphire glass and 316 stainless? My impression is that the somewhat lower price we're willing to pay is the result(at least to a degree) of the uncertainity regarding whether you actually get what's being advertised. That is, if you were certain of getting the advertised watch you might be willing to pay $400 but are only willing to pay $225 given the uncertainity. If my impression is correct, the dealers have helped create the situation that The Zigmeister describes in the post that started this thread. Obvously the sellers listed here are less responsible for undermining confidence in the authenticity of claims relative to the fraudulent sellers out there. There is, however, the issue of "white lies" that apparently applies even to many good sellers. Those white lies create skepticism and could reduce what we're willing to pay. That could help spell the end of high end reps.

Another point to contemplate is the following. If The Zigmeister's premise that the end of premium reps is near, we should see prices for used high quality reps escalating on the resale market. It will be interesting to watch the trading forums here and on the other legitimate watch forms.

[Chronus]

It's very unlike Pugwash to read a thread like this, and not leave his own unique stamp.

I hope he is ok... GET WELL SOON PUG!

"dun be a pug"