My DSN Experience

[UncleJay]

Thanks for everything.

No problem, that's what the community is for. BTW, where did you get your Avi, download a star pic and crop it? If so, who is it?

[TeeJay]

WOW perfectly said, I have to give you on your honesty. He's just getting and this lack of QC will most likely in his face. I just hope that if he bails from his sinking he doesn't leave us or out in the . Recent posts have given me an for a new forum to collector problems. Moderators would then be able to for the community. I would be the to volunteer, and I'm sure I could find a and to help.

We need to stop being and together now. Hey, some of us here save for a while to get an expensive rep and then take a , that's not right. Collectors who don't respect the community should be !

I also want to say that I'm NOT a voilent person and it took me longer to write this post than it did to make my first child

I agree completely. Whatever you've got planned, you can count on my support

[UncleJay]

UPDATE:

I finally heard back from DSN. I has asked for a refund in my last email but said I would rather take the watches if they were of better quality. He replied the watches would be ready to ship next week, but also asked how much he owed me if I decide on the refund. Now, I think a refund is the safer bet, but it would not help the community. I will see what his replacements are like and post it here. I hope that he's settled his QC problems ..... more to come.

[peepshow]

Jay, DSN sent me pictures of my 010D before he shipped it out to me, because I had requested his older (version 1) 010 dial.

Perhaps he could do the same for your order?

[TeeJay]

UPDATE:

I finally heard back from DSN. I has asked for a refund in my last email but said I would rather take the watches if they were of better quality. He replied the watches would be ready to ship next week, but also asked how much he owed me if I decide on the refund. Now, I think a refund is the safer bet, but it would not help the community. I will see what his replacements are like and post it here. I hope that he's settled his QC problems ..... more to come.

Interesting decision, but certainly the most easy going. If the watches come through and are up to par, you'll have had the goods you paid for. If they're not up to scratch, you can still send them back and ask for the refund then. Taking the refund initially, would mean missing out the opportunity to see what the replacements are like. Smooth move

[UncleJay]

Taking the refund initially, would mean missing out the opportunity to see what the replacements are like. Smooth move

That's the idea, to help and inform the community. I figure I'm already in this crappy deal, let me ride it out and get more intel. I can then pass on the info to the community and maybe help in the process. I would love to post that DSN has delivered a quality product so that everyone can be happy, let's wait and see.

[TeeJay]

That's the idea, to help and inform the community. I figure I'm already in this crappy deal, let me ride it out and get more intel. I can then pass on the info to the community and maybe help in the process. I would love to post that DSN has delivered a quality product so that everyone can be happy, let's wait and see.

Absolutely Here's fingers crossed for a positive resolution

[MyNameIsPeterAndImOld]

Hey mates, I was thinking about getting a 111H from Davidsen as soon as those Swan Neck movements are back in stock again, but after reading about those problems and about watches not being quality checked I'm a bit doubtful, because I'm from Germany and our customs are very thorough when it comes to fake watches, so I don't want to take more risk than necessary.

I want to buy a new and pre-modded PAM 111H with a dagger swan neck movement with engraved bridges, superlume, crown guard fix, canon pinion fix, etc. -- simply the best pre-modded copy of a PAM 111H I can get for under 500 USD, so if I don't get a DSN, which should I buy?

[Star69]

DSN is the way he is because too many people recieve their watches, then post photos of a watch with a poorly fitting CG, inacurate dial, misshapen cse etc and pour out thanks and praise for Davidsen and his 'excellent' watches. Very few people have been willing to stand up and tell the truth - I have and he won't even respond to my offers to assist with the accuracy of his new productions. As long as he has got a reputation that he doesn't deserve he won't change.

HIS WATCHES ARE RUBBISH, HIS BUILD QUALITY IS BAD AND HIS SERVICE IS WOEFUL. My biggest complaint is that he treats us all like a bunch of morons and unfortunately he has succeeded in making fools out of a lot of us.

just read this DSN adventure story

first :

UncleJay im sorry - i hope everythink will work out for you ...

second :

im still a fanboy of DSN im sure Pamman spreaks out his own experience

but for me - my own experience - after owning 7 of DSNs watches : i never had serious problems and

his watches "feel" better than the "normal" Pam reps i had.

find me a better alternative to his parts and watches - and im happy

find me a better PVD case than DSNs - and dont tell me JiFu with extra PVD ..

or his vintage case-sets and dials .... where do you get Ti cases now ?

swiss movements ? real sapphire crystals for all kind of Pams ?

in the Rolex-world you can get easy spare parts - but Panerai Reps without DSN ? - no thank you

cheers,

Frank

[MyNameIsPeterAndImOld]

So Frank you think I should give DSN a try and order one of his watches?

[Star69]

So Frank you think I should give DSN a try and order one of his watches?

my ultimate tip :

get a used DSN watch from a member here - then the member didt the QC for you already

and read read read ... his 111h dial is shitty while his 112h dial is lovely ....

[UncleJay]

Latest Update

It seems that Customs has seized my return, I'm waiting for the Post Office to confirm, but that's what I've been told. I've informed DSN about the situation and he's responded. He's offered to split the loss with me, that would put me out about $700US. Not a great outcome, but I could have been out the total.

What burns me it that it would have never come to this if the watches would have been correct. The watches were returned for mechanical defects like DOA mvt, stripped screws, off centered crowns, and a lever I couldn't open. It's not like I didn't like the dial font or something, they were just unusable.

DSN and some member have said I just set too high standards for a replice, maybe their right. I'd like to apologize for taking up so much space here to vent, but I thought anyone considering buying a DSN should know what's going on with his QC lately.

I really don't see myself buying reps from dealers anytime soon, my 2 experiences (DSN and Josh) didn't go well. But funny enough, my 4 deals buying from members were perfect transactions. I guess I'll stick to Frankens and custom pieces for now, I hope I still have a place here. I guess it's time for me to learn how to work on watchs, maybe Kruzer will start a school or at least give me some pointers.

[Watchmeister]

I appreciate the props but my skills are close to nonexistent. It is only through the help and work of others that things come together. It is fun to occasionally destroy a watch taking apart a movement though. Whenever I try it I end up with extra pieces. Sorry to hear on the DSN outcome. I do prefer to buy from other forum members. When I do buy from dealers I keep it to no more than 1-2 at a time. That way everything is sorted out on the first order before ordering more. I still like some of Davidsen's parts and he is a good resource for that.

[omegaunit]

Sorry to hear about your troubles UncleJay.

This is one of the reasons I won't send a watch back. If the dealer is decent he should sent you replacements first, if there is an issue you can use parts from the first batch to make a good watch.

I appreciate you sharing this information with us, at least some of us will be spared.

[P4GTR]

Split the customs loss? Thats garbage, completely unacceptable yes?

Im really sorry UJ. Sucks to see someone with so much to contribute, come here, and get burned so bad you gotta break out the SSD cream.

UJ, Do one watch at a time. You jumped head first into a halfway filled pool my friend.

Kelster- I have a Ti case from Joshua... Still available per his site.

[pete2528ca]

Uncle Jay...

Splitting is [censored]. That [censored] DSN should cover you 100%

He should be put on probation on every rep site till his quality control gets better.

it isn't even my money and I am [censored] off...

Don't settle for splitting. Make him send you two more watches or something.

You have my email address, email me when you have a second...

Pete

[TeeJay]

Latest Update

It seems that Customs has seized my return, I'm waiting for the Post Office to confirm, but that's what I've been told. I've informed DSN about the situation and he's responded. He's offered to split the loss with me, that would put me out about $700US. Not a great outcome, but I could have been out the total.

What burns me it that it would have never come to this if the watches would have been correct. The watches were returned for mechanical defects like DOA mvt, stripped screws, off centered crowns, and a lever I couldn't open. It's not like I didn't like the dial font or something, they were just unusable.

DSN and some member have said I just set too high standards for a replice, maybe their right. I'd like to apologize for taking up so much space here to vent, but I thought anyone considering buying a DSN should know what's going on with his QC lately.

I really don't see myself buying reps from dealers anytime soon, my 2 experiences (DSN and Josh) didn't go well. But funny enough, my 4 deals buying from members were perfect transactions. I guess I'll stick to Frankens and custom pieces for now, I hope I still have a place here. I guess it's time for me to learn how to work on watchs, maybe Kruzer will start a school or at least give me some pointers.

They're not right at all. We've all seen the quality of reps available, and there's no reason why that standard of reps should not be delivered to all customers, all the time. Okay, things like dial printings, fair enough, they're reps, not gens, so a little acceptance of the standard has to be given there, but, any fool can see if the watch they are packing is actually running or not, or if the screws are stripped. Or, more likely, any canny 'business man' can tell if the watch is not running, and simply hope that the client will fall for excuses of "Must've died in transit..." or "Sorry, send it back and will replace it for you..."

I think this kind of attitude from dealers and some members, shows a very dangerous mindset developing: Namely, that people should expect to accept defective product, simply because we are 'buying reps, not gens'. While I would agree that folks should not expect 100% perfect replication, the basic mechanics of the watch itself, ie movement running, screws solidly in place, etc, should be consistent for all buyers on all transactions. We all work hard for our money, and I think it's time that some dealers realized that people expect reasonable product for their money, and don't deserve to be fobbed off with DOA Junk, and then meaningless platitudes to stop the client simply requesting a refund.

[pete2528ca]

maybe a boycott of DSN is in order for a bit. that might smarten him up. I had nothing but issues with my Zero that I got from him, and the replacement was worse.

[UncleJay]

They're not right at all. We've all seen the quality of reps available, and there's no reason why that standard of reps should not be delivered to all customers, all the time. Okay, things like dial printings, fair enough, they're reps, not gens, so a little acceptance of the standard has to be given there, but, any fool can see if the watch they are packing is actually running or not, or if the screws are stripped. Or, more likely, any canny 'business man' can tell if the watch is not running, and simply hope that the client will fall for excuses of "Must've died in transit..." or "Sorry, send it back and will replace it for you..."

I think this kind of attitude from dealers and some members, shows a very dangerous mindset developing: Namely, that people should expect to accept defective product, simply because we are 'buying reps, not gens'. While I would agree that folks should not expect 100% perfect replication, the basic mechanics of the watch itself, ie movement running, screws solidly in place, etc, should be consistent for all buyers on all transactions. We all work hard for our money, and I think it's time that some dealers realized that people expect reasonable product for their money, and don't deserve to be fobbed off with DOA Junk, and then meaningless platitudes to stop the client simply requesting a refund.

Well said TJ. It's an insult to us everytime a dealer send out a watch with such obvious problems, what.....where we not supposed to notice? But then again, what do they care, they don't pay for the shipping back to them.

Here are more of my thoughts. Yes, I screwed up by ordering 5 watches in a clip, dumb move I now know. In my defense, he was highly talked about and the only dealer I know with Pre-V PAMs. My losses are others gain, we now know about DSN's QC problems and they are out in the open. There are now well over 5,000 views of posts regarding DSN problems, 2108 of this thread alone. Let's say 25% of those were potential unsatisfied customers, then we saved 1250 people from going through what we have. AT the end of the day, we did OK in my book.

[pete2528ca]

well kudos to you Uncle Jay. you are seriously taking it better than I ever would. i hope it works out for you.

[TeeJay]

Well said TJ. It's an insult to us everytime a dealer send out a watch with such obvious problems, what.....where we not supposed to notice? But then again, what do they care, they don't pay for the shipping back to them.

Indeed it is an insult to us. Equally so, the mindset mentioned (and raised in other threads) that people should be greatfull to receive such junk, and simply keep buying, in the hopes that once they've spent X amount, the dealer decides that they, as a client, are now 'worthy' enough to receive 'the good stuff'. I find it insulting that there are dealers who appear to be working on that principle, and equally insulting and, to be frank, downright scary, that such behaviour is glossed over by the suggestions to 'build a relationship with the dealer...' If someone goes to a restaurant, pays for a slap up meal, then spends the rest of the evening with gut-ache and rushing for the bathroom every five minutes, they're hardly likely to go back to see if they get served better food next time, and I think that's the philosophy which should be applied here.

If a dealer is a drop-shipper, then fair enough, they have no controll of what gets parcelled up, other than the hopes that the despatcher fills the order correctly, and in that circumstance, as long as they accept a return (which should be at their cost, because the error is by their 'company') then not an issue. But. Should a dealer be claiming to make personal inspections and QC, then the items should be as good as possible, given the nature of the game. Okay, so they order 500 watches from the factory, and of those, maybe 10% are unnacceptably flawed (mechanically) in that instance, that 10% should simply be scrapped or returned to the factory itself, certainly not sent out to paying clients. At the end of the day, the markup which is being put on these watches, sales of the 90% will more than cover the cost of outright junking the 10% of faulties...

Personally, I feel the time has come that these 'trusted dealers' started re-earning the right to be called thus. Proving that they are trustworthy, not just in name, but in nature.

Here are more of my thoughts. Yes, I screwed up by ordering 5 watches in a clip, dumb move I now know. In my defense, he was highly talked about and the only dealer I know with Pre-V PAMs. My losses are others gain, we now know about DSN's QC problems and they are out in the open. There are now well over 5,000 views of posts regarding DSN problems, 2108 of this thread alone. Let's say 25% of those were potential unsatisfied customers, then we saved 1250 people from going through what we have. AT the end of the day, we did OK in my book.

That's a really positive way to look at it, and it's good that you can look at it from that perspective, it's just a shame that you've been put in the situation where you've had to...

[UncleJay]

When all is said and done and the dust finally settles, my small loss may have saved others $531,250 (1250@$425). The odds are in our favor and I feel this will make everyone open their eyes and make us less open to the "people should expect to accept defective product" mindset.

[TeeJay]

When all is said and done and the dust finally settles, my small loss may have saved others $531,250 (1250@$425). The odds are in our favor and I feel this will make everyone open their eyes and make us less open to the "people should expect to accept defective product" mindset.

Here's hoping people will take note, and be prepared to act on it

[M5Man]

Here's hoping people will take note, and be prepared to act on it

Noted and advice taken on all of this. I was going to order a 217 Destro from DSN. After reading this entire thread and all the QC issues and upset customers not a chance.

[JCYL]

damn....having read all these negative comments, I'll postpone my purchase from him until I go to Hong Kong in a few months' time so that I can inspect the watches with my own eyes before I spend my hard-earned cash.