UncleJay Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Well, I received my order and I must say I'm not impressed at all. I'd heard so much about his watches and thought I really wanted a few of his pieces. I own an older 5218-201/A I bought used from another member and heard his new cases were even better. I take weeks waiting, reading, deciding, then finally place my order. I choose the 5218- 202, 203, 207, 210, and 218/A. I have numerous email communication with him asking to make sure all watches are 100% before shipping. I wanted to make sure because shipping back a watch is a pain, plus I heard he inspects personally before shipping. I'm assured all will be perfect and I make payment. I receive word he has ahipped the first of two packages. Shipping was quick, only a few days from Hong Kong. The first package contained the 202 and 207. The 202's case was that of a regular PAM, not a 5218 Pre-V. The movement was loose and I couldn't open the crown lever. The 207 had the Pre-V case but the crown sits too high on the case side not allowing the crown to show from the case back side of the CG. I basically would have to wind the watch from the crystal side only. I will not bore you all with the problems of the second package, but I will give you some of the main problems. Pre-V PVD watches have new style cases, Some watches have ARC, you can not use a lug tube because screws are too thick, screws are not threaded correctly and will not hold in the case, and so on. I've sent the watches back (except for the 210) and now I wait for the replacements. I've asked DSN some question about the watches and I haven't heard from him since 4/27. I would not recommend ordering from DSN until he resolves problems with his dissatisfied customers, I'm not the only one. We should all keep the community informed, anyone else here have problems with DSN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Thanks for letting us know, that does seem to be a lot of problems ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Yeah, DSN's "new" case issue (crown/stem placement in the case) is known factor, Jay. Sorry someone didn't clue you in on what to expect beforehand. Personally, I think his PVD "normal" cases are the lesser of two evils in this case. He stated in his Pre-V dial thread that he was not going to attempt to create an accurate Pre-V case. That said, it doesn't have anything to do with all the other issues you had with your order. My last order from DSN arrived DOA and I had to return it at my own expense, but he *did* ship out a replacement watch right away, vs. waiting for the dead watch to return (which some dealers have done in the past). Sadly, a lot of DSN's projects are 7 or 8 tenths of the way there, but none of them ever get to 9/10ths. His QC seems to be on a downward slide, and that is concerning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2528ca Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 I hope it works out with you Zio Jay. Ill keep you posted on my situation as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) I am very sorry but not at all surprised. However I must commend you for being willing to be honest about his rubbish. I must have posted at least 50 posts warning that DSN's stuff is highly inaccurate, poorly finished, very carelessly assembled and not compatible with any alternative parts which may otherwise be used to correct his peculiar interpretation of what a Panerai looks like. Can we please accept that his products are tripe? - yes they are different than the regular rep offerings but he is making fools of a lot of people. I have sent him numerous emails and PM offering to assist in improving the accuracy of his products but he has never had the manners to respond to a single message. He is not interested in improving anything as long as he has a bunch of supporters who won't speak up, lest they end up being blacklisted like me. Edited May 1, 2008 by PAMman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Not good at all Jay. I have exited all of mine over the months with the exception of an ETA based 082 and stick purchasing parts only from Davidsen. I don't think there's the commitment to excellence there used to be on the finished watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Sad about your troubles, Jay. I really hope that Davidsen's QC will soon come back to his usual standard at least -- but especially that he will immediately sort out your issues as well as those of all currently unsatisfied members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2528ca Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 you would think though, with all the issues and all the returns to him he would either take a break and bring things back to good, or look for new suppliers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Unfortunately it is not surprising. He is an excellent resource for specific parts. But there is a fundamental flaw with his whole approach. PAM's are one of the few run of the mill reps that actually have close enough specs to be able to take gen parts. Why would you make one that is not compatible with genuine parts? By definition the watch must be inferior. Just based on that rather obvious fact I have always been amazed that people swear by his watches. 99% of long time gen owners stay away from him for exactly that reason. There is a small group of folks who have been working with him for years to try and get one right. And it still hasn't happened. At some point it may make sense to commision someone to make a proper Pre-V case. With the correct specs it would not be very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertb Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Thanks for the update Jay, sounds like you saved me from a huge headache! Thanks for the heads up and I hope all of this gets resolved for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2528ca Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 i have to agree with kruzer. for parts he has great stuff. i have a case coming that i know the crown guard is going to look like [censored]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drop Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Sorry for the different angle, but you kept the 210? What are your impressions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJay Posted May 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 He stated in his Pre-V dial thread that he was not going to attempt to create an accurate Pre-V case. Sadly, a lot of DSN's projects are 7 or 8 tenths of the way there, but none of them ever get to 9/10ths. I have to agree. The new Pre-V case has only 2 things wrong, the ARC and crown placement. I liked the two screw lug screw. My last order from DSN arrived DOA and I had to return it at my own expense, but he *did* ship out a replacement watch right away, vs. waiting for the dead watch to return (which some dealers have done in the past). Lucky you. My order was almost $2000 and I'm stuck the $ and waiting for the replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJay Posted May 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Sorry for the different angle, but you kept the 210? What are your impressions? Well, the old case isn't that bad. I bought it used, it was moded, and it's a great beater. This is DSN's older stuff, which by what I see is better. Oops, thought you said the 201. The 210 was not half bad because that watch is supposed to have a single screw case as in new PAMs. The only thing was it needs new screws that will fit the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Thank you for sharing this information Jay. I'm so sorry to hear your good money is stuck without having the chance to enjoy what you ordered. I'm not able to judge the accurancy of Pams in general, but I always was very astonished about the comments around DSN. There are so many bad experiences posted on RWG and yet few very happy customers that state he is sooo much better I sincerely hope you will experience a happy end here. All the best, Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im2 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 I have purchased his Ultimate PAM 111h. i really dont want to mess with gen parts on PAMs and i was really pleased by the quality of this product. In fact, i am one of the lucky ones woh have a 111h with Swiss Swan Neck movement. But, there is one flaw that cannot stand and this is the size/vertical allignment of the L Swiss Made L as well as the proximity to 6. Since i am looking for a second PAM i would like from your experience to ask which PAM source should i contact to get a very good out - of - the - box rep. I dont want to mess with mods... I just want accuracy, super lume, accurate AR and this is a question for most new/not-that-new members here who are willing to pay for a good rep that arrives str8 to their mailbox without having to send it somewhere else again b4 the are able to wear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 I remember having a 005 from Davidsen, I could not fault the quality it was incredible. However I met with another board member who had some modded pieces, and it made mine look insignificant. For the extra moeny modded is the only way to, for a cheaper Pam, Angus' Ultimates are pretty good. Hope you get your problem sorted Unclejay, a Pam on your wrist whilst driving that Stingray would go nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jockl1978 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 From my expirience it is really hit and miss with DSN: - my first one was a swiss PAM 127, nice execpt the crown guard pin and holding good time - the second one should have been a 232 which was a desaster - dial was printed slanted to the right (I was not the only one - you can find the threads here and on rwi), crown wobbly and the watch running over four hours fast on a day! So much for his advertising that all watches are checked on a time tester...chinese time running that much faster then european one? I am now waiting for a replacement and then its done for me with DSN. I normally don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Sorry to hear this, Jay. I hope it works out well for you. Just one day before this post I've ordered my first DSN, the new updated PAM088. I'll let you guys know when it's in and post pics........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Jay, are you saying that DSN is waiting for your returned watches to reach him before he ships the replacements? That's bunk. Perhaps it's simply becuase of the size/value of the order? Sorry to hear about all the trouble, again. For the screw issues on your 210/a, perhaps you can use some spring bars from River and just paint the ends with some flat black paint? I LOVE the spring bars that look like screws, I even use them on my gen 002! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 here is the gen pre-vendome screw tube system. rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 additional image above rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vric Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 I have ordered parts from him (case, dial and hands) and the dial (111h style) was badly aligned, making the second pinion to touch the dial and stop the movement. I'm waiting for a replacement... (hope this time it will work.. I use a real swiss 6497) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJay Posted May 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Jay, are you saying that DSN is waiting for your returned watches to reach him before he ships the replacements? That's bunk. Perhaps it's simply becuase of the size/value of the order? Yes, he's waiting for my watches to reach him before he ships the replacements. So you're saying that because it's 5 watches he's holding on, but if it were 5 individuals he would send out the watches first? If that's the case I'm insulted and I will request a full refund from him. I do see you are correct, he does seem to ship replacements quickly, but not for me. Sorry to hear about all the trouble, again. For the screw issues on your 210/a, perhaps you can use some spring bars from River and just paint the ends with some flat black paint? I LOVE the spring bars that look like screws, I even use them on my gen 002! HOLY SPRING BAR BATMAN, they make those!!!!! Please PM me the contact info for that seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Well before i start i have not dealt with Dsn. I am just putting my 2 cents in if i was to pay big money towards a watch i would at least expect the QC to be 99% i wont say 100% as i no damage can be expexted depending on how the reciecing end look after it ie the shipping company but if somebody has paid nearly over 2000 GRAND EUROS I EXPECT a higher class of service !!! im just a NOOB what do i no? Cheers Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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