Guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) From Josh.... I bought this explorer and now Im curious if this is really a cheap asian or a swiss eta that I paid for...Anybody have any opinions on a nice balmy friday night.? Many thanks... Edited June 7, 2008 by jcmiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 how bout these. 1st is a seamaster, $100 rep 2nd is a 2436 rolex daydate rose gold from some scammer site. (a good rep overall though) Just out of sheer curiousity.... Thank you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) That is 100% sure a ETA copy movement!!! Guaranteed! The first 3 pics I'm talking about in the first post!!! Edited June 7, 2008 by EuroTimez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Uh oh. Little (or maybe not so little) white lies. I am curious how Josh is going to explain this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 I also wanted to say, I am far from expert, but to me it looks like Explorer Asian Seamaster Asian DayDate ETA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 That is 100% sure a ETA copy movement!!! Guaranteed! The first 3 pics I'm talking about in the first post!!! Does the color of the movement i.e. these brass ones or the nickle ones mean anything Chris? Reason I ask is the two "ETA" watches I have, I believe to honestly be ETA (and they are both nickle). The first of which is in my SS Sub, an old school watchsmith said it was definately an ETA.. With a bit of a rusty screw (the one thats dead center of the movement.) I figured "surplus" but then thought nickle weren't supposed to be surplus. I wonder if this could possibly be a tell of some sort? The second ETA is in my SFSO. A pic speaks a thousand words, so here she go's- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 That is 100% sure a ETA copy movement!!! Guaranteed! The first 3 pics I'm talking about in the first post!!! This is simply not good enough Euro-Timez. Putting other dealer`s goods down without any relevent facts is just sour grapes on your part. This is the second time you have made this statement without any backup proof !!!!! http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=75350 PUT UP OR SHUT UP. The following is a post from The Zigmeister, and still doesn`t fully answer the OP question. Group: Supporter Posts: 2,411 Joined: 19-March 06 User's local time: Jun 7 2008, 03:53 AM From: Canada Member No.: 452 Trader Stats: All I can offer is the information I have been told by supplier. The short answer was this, they sell two types of ETA movements, normal ones, and "Swiss" ones...when I asked what the difference was between the two types, the answer was this: "We have brand new blister pack sealed factory ETA XXXX movements, the factory ones are "Gold" coloured, and the "normal" (surplus) ones are all silver nickel plated ones" When I asked where the nickel plated ones were from, this was the answer: "All nickel plated ETA's are from the Hong Kong distributor of ETA movemnets..." So that leads me to believe that ETA still produces the 2836-2 and 2824-2 movements, if you buy the factory ones direct from ETA in Switzerland, you will get a gold plated movement, if you want the cheaper surplus ones, you get nickel plated ones from the HK distributor. If someone wants to pay for me to buy a ETA sealed one so we can find out for sure, it's not a problem, I'll buy it and show you what I get. I think ETA is a screwed up company anyway, I have spoken to the Candian distributor and they haven't a clue about anything... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Wow rodwc, you seem to be getting kinda upset. I happen to agree with Chris- Eurotimez, that the first three pics are probably a clone movement- first clue is that the rotor doesn't have "Twenty-Five Jewels 25 Swiss Made" on it. Of course, the pic isn't the best, and you can't tell if it says 2836-2 under the balance, but that is no guarantee these days anyway. The clones are typically gold (that I've seen). Chris wasn't being derogatory, he was just giving his educated opinion. I happen to agree with him and John G who said- asian, asian, and ETA. I'm not putting Josh down, just giving my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Wow rodwc, you seem to be getting kinda upset. I happen to agree with Chris- Eurotimez, that the first three pics are probably a clone movement- first clue is that the rotor doesn't have "Twenty-Five Jewels 25 Swiss Made" on it. Of course, the pic isn't the best, and you can't tell if it says 2836-2 under the balance, but that is no guarantee these days anyway. The clones are typically gold (that I've seen). Chris wasn't being derogatory, he was just giving his educated opinion. I happen to agree with him and John G who said- asian, asian, and ETA. I'm not putting Josh down, just giving my opinion. Getting upset ? Far from it. I simply cannot tolerate far ranging opinions without any backup or hard evidence. This question has been asked a dozen times by different members and this seems to be the only thing that comes up..... "My opinion" ..... fine , I will take anyone`s opinion, but please show me/us how and why, then this question can be laid to rest. "If Rodwc would take some pictures of the movement, I'll take a look at it... because COPY ETA also have stamps and engravings on them... I need high quality pics from different sides tho... But the best way according to my watchmaker who opens every single watch-case-back, said the best indication is to look at the ROTOR, take off the rotor and you will see the difference if you know where to look for..." This I did, if you care to read the link from my last post. He gives his opinion in both post`s , and really no-one is any wiser , so far it has all been opinions , guesswork,and hot air. Again from The Zigmeister, "So that leads me to believe that ETA still produces the 2836-2 and 2824-2 movements, if you buy the factory ones direct from ETA in Switzerland, you will get a gold plated movement, if you want the cheaper surplus ones, you get nickel plated ones from the HK distributor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 My internet is driving me crazy- I tried to respond but it ain't working- maybe tomorrow it'll be better. Heck maybe it's working now, but I got to go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi, easy : if it has no ETA mention nor 25 jewels Swiss Made engraving, it's a clone. The opposite is not true But it's not a bad movement at all. My Railmaster has the same movement, whereas it was sold to me as Swiss ETA. I informed my dealer Watchmark about that (with pictures) and he immediately proposed to return it. We agreed he would rather give me a large discount, what he did. This is something hard to control : you can't ask a dealer to open every single watch he's selling. I always leave them the benefice of the doubt in such cases, although I also understood from Eurotimez that the movements are clearly classified and the dealer should know what he's buying. I would keep it and ask for a large discount (at least 100 USD, which is what Joshua or others are used to charge as a price difference between Asian and Swiss ETAs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 wow so the third is actually real....Thats crazy!!! (the one that had the least reputable source) That was the first rep I ever bought....It was from a scammer site that charged me more than 3 times josh or andrews price.....I didnt know about rwg..cc back then but heck I figure I my have made a right choice....back to the scammer site it is.......;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 heres larger pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 "If Rodwc would take some pictures of the movement, I'll take a look at it... because COPY ETA also have stamps and engravings on them... I need high quality pics from different sides tho... But the best way according to my watchmaker who opens every single watch-case-back, said the best indication is to look at the ROTOR, take off the rotor and you will see the difference if you know where to look for..." Again from Ziggy, "So that leads me to believe that ETA still produces the 2836-2 and 2824-2 movements, if you buy the factory ones direct from ETA in Switzerland, you will get a gold plated movement, if you want the cheaper surplus ones, you get nickel plated ones from the HK distributor." I looked at your other post and I think your watch movement is an ETA- balance jewel looks good, engraved rotor, engraving of 2824-2 on the plate, general fit and finish. I question Ziggy's statement above since all of my ETA's in reps are gold- but I do agree that they are surplus as Rob says. Gold ones also come from asia no doubt- just not in sealed packages. The majority of clones that I've seen are also gold, but there are also nickel colored ones out there, too. One last note, jcmiro, your last pic of the ETA movement- it has a little piece over the rotor that says Rolex- 25 jewels- it's just a little glue on metallic sticker- you can pop it off with a knife or razor. It would be interesting to do that so that you can see if your rotor underneath is engraved. Over tha last year or so we've seen an increasing number of clones in the marketplace. They are not bad movements and I agree with Pix, if you get one in a watch that was supposed to have an ETA, about the best you can do is try to get a price adjustment from your dealer- it's not the end of the world. Asian 21j, clone or ETA- anyone of them could need to be serviced at some point- sooner or later- there are no guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Over tha last year or so we've seen an increasing number of clones in the marketplace. They are not bad movements and I agree with Pix, if you get one in a watch that was supposed to have an ETA, about the best you can do is try to get a price adjustment from your dealer- it's not the end of the world. Asian 21j, clone or ETA- anyone of them could need to be serviced at some point- sooner or later- there are no guarantees. "if you get one in a watch that was supposed to have an ETA, about the best you can do is try to get a price adjustment from your dealer- it's not the end of the world. Asian 21j, clone or ETA- anyone of them could need to be serviced at some point- sooner or later- there are no guarantees." Sorry, If I get an Asian 21j or clone ,in a watch that I have paid for Swiss ETA 2824-2 believe me when I say the $hit WILL hit the fan. Not the end of the world , No, but it is LIES and DECEPTION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 @ Rowdc, sorry if I did upset you in any way. I'm been out of town and actually I don't keep track of everything that I post. The main difference that I can tell easiely is a GEAR, yours seem to be gen ETA, I requested actually a picture from my watchsmith in CHINA for the ROTOR one --it's not the rotor but the inner workings--, as this one I personally don't know how to look at it... But i'll guarantee my ass that the first pic is 1000% a copy ETA movement... THE GEAR SILVER ONE (BIG ONE) is polished, while the GEN ETA 2836-2 in my experience has always been brushed!!! So check picture 2 from the first post and tell me what you see... besides that also the rotor isn't engraved which is a very commen sign it is a COPY ETA... So I don't want to take it to a personal level but please consider that I'm quite busy and I do have a social life so if I missed out on reply on a post --please accept my apology-- but I have customers that need to be answered and I loose track postings online.... But if you want to side up with Josh or who-ever then consider the white-lies they been saying and are still keeping up ETA 2813?! I'm not the one causing confusion because I know exactly what I sell, and I believe they know exactly what they sell! Think of it and consider the prices that they offer is it realistic?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Does the color of the movement i.e. these brass ones or the nickle ones mean anything Chris? Reason I ask is the two "ETA" watches I have, I believe to honestly be ETA (and they are both nickle). The first of which is in my SS Sub, an old school watchsmith said it was definately an ETA.. With a bit of a rusty screw (the one thats dead center of the movement.) I figured "surplus" but then thought nickle weren't supposed to be surplus. I wonder if this could possibly be a tell of some sort? The second ETA is in my SFSO. A pic speaks a thousand words, so here she go's- I'm not quite familiar with the NICKEL plated ones, if they made copy of it or not, generally I get the golden ones. But use the thing I posted as a general guide. THE BIG GEAR, I hope they won't change it now it's being exposed that was my fear... I was actually planning on doing a Pic-tutorial... on it... but my time is very limited right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm not quite familiar with the NICKEL plated ones, if they made copy of it or not, generally I get the golden ones. But use the thing I posted as a general guide. THE BIG GEAR, I hope they won't change it now it's being exposed that was my fear... I was actually planning on doing a Pic-tutorial... on it... but my time is very limited right now. Figures, its covered in that pic. Looking at my gen and the big wheel is brushed finish like you said. Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hi P4GTR, no problems Glad I could be of assistance.... The nickel plated ones I think are being also copied now ( i think as I barely get nickel-plated ones ), but I think the one you bought was quite a while ago... because the copy-movements weren't like a year ago massively on the market yet... but they're overtaking the market as the price of the ETA raises significantly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Maybe I'll pop the back on my SFSO if I get curious enough. Pisses me off the movement pics I took dont show that wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 The nickel copy movements that I saw where on the TZ-UK forum. No ETA markings but definitely a 2824/2836 copy. Can't remember if it was a Seagull, maybe some other unheard of company (at least for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 @ Rowdc, sorry if I did upset you in any way. I'm been out of town and actually I don't keep track of everything that I post. The main difference that I can tell easiely is a GEAR, yours seem to be gen ETA, I requested actually a picture from my watchsmith in CHINA for the ROTOR one --it's not the rotor but the inner workings--, as this one I personally don't know how to look at it... But i'll guarantee my ass that the first pic is 1000% a copy ETA movement... THE GEAR SILVER ONE (BIG ONE) is polished, while the GEN ETA 2836-2 in my experience has always been brushed!!! So check picture 2 from the first post and tell me what you see... besides that also the rotor isn't engraved which is a very commen sign it is a COPY ETA... So I don't want to take it to a personal level but please consider that I'm quite busy and I do have a social life so if I missed out on reply on a post --please accept my apology-- but I have customers that need to be answered and I loose track postings online.... But if you want to side up with Josh or who-ever then consider the white-lies they been saying and are still keeping up ETA 2813?! I'm not the one causing confusion because I know exactly what I sell, and I believe they know exactly what they sell! Think of it and consider the prices that they offer is it realistic?!?! Many thanks for your upfront honesty, and believe me when I say that there was nothing personal. Too many people have put forward their opinions in the past, to the degree that this has all become confusing to many. At least you are the first person so far to give any hard fact and evidence , as to where the differences between ETA and Copy, movements lie. My whole point of contention lies in getting what I pay for, if that be a genuine ETA , that is what I want and expect. If I pay for a copy ETA, fine I expect a copy and accept that it is a clone/copy ETA. I side with NO particular dealer......NO ONE ..... It would be nice to expect every dealer to be up front and honest, ( As you are ), but this is obviously not the case, buyer beware ! Good luck Chris and many thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 @ RODWC, I think you're completely right, as I wrote in the other post as well. No hard feelings, I was genuinely busy You're right many a time ppl claim and say things without actual knowlegde of what they're talking about.... I do feel that I know what I'm talking about... I also completely agree when you say... you must get what you pay for... I'm totally for that. For that whole reason I have complete inspections... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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