What is going on in America and the rest of the world...

[rocket754]

God help us all.....

Got to get some rest for work.

[milsub5517]

Pug, we only thing i want is for people TO START THINKING, analyze FACTS, form THEIR OWN opinions. i do not care if they believe or not, but i do want them to form a real independent opinion, no metter what it is. this is what america is supposed to be about. so far it looks like this is too much to ask ..

No, they just make you laugh.

All the 9/11 conspiracies are based on bad science and false assumptions. Yes, some hokey things went on, but hokey things are always going on. Pick any date and you can find examples of the government acting conspiratorially because that's their job.

Check out the myriad of debunkings of Loose Change, for instance:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/...s-of-loose.html

http://www.pajiba.com/loose-change.htm

Then, just let Penn & Teller tell you how it is.

Edited August 11, 2008 by mil_sub

[Dani]

You guys don't now anything

Its the monkeys that are behind Bush controlling his every move

Their headquarters are in the rocky mountains.

Never doubt the power of the monkeys, have you not seen planet of the apes?

[Chicken Manny]

this is the single biggest problem. i am not sure what it will take for people to start thinking... blowing up buildings on 9/11 didnt seem to do a thing, attacking another country did n't do a thing (britney's problems still were more important), taking away peoples rights does not seem to do anything. you know, we can go on like this but we all agree that this is not going to lead us to a better place.

Agreed. I might have misjudged you MS. I wish the average tax payer spent more than 10 minutes a year looking at where their tax dollars went. Please give me one thing, if you see it as correct. A huge portion of the US population doesnt really become affected unless it hits them in the wallet. They don't understand the sacrifices made by people protecting them despite all else.

I only ask one thing..... please understand that many, many people give all to protect the interest of our country and our freedoms and you only have the abilty to produce commentary under the umbrella provided by our sacrifice. I completely respect descension as long as it is based in fact. We will defend you in that fact.

Wow, that was a bit over the top. Sorry, you brought the Chicken Manny out of the shadows.

[milsub5517]

lol. interest of our country??? not anymore..

..many people give all to protect the interest of our country ..

[Chicken Manny]

lol. interest of our country??? not anymore..

Well I guess I was a bit off the mark. I hope you find a way to enjoy the moral hierarchy with honor. Maybe some day your intelligence will translate to superiority.

Until then I will keep beating rocks together in hope of a spark.

[stilty]

What are they going to do next in the coming years....electronically tag me?

Yes!!!!

Call it security, call it the "mark of the beast", call it whatever, but it will happen. You can already "chip" your pets. Why not your children?

Fear makes people do weird things.

... now back to my merlot.

[Pugwash]

And until you have experienced war, which I almost surely think you haven't, don't worry about being an armchair warrior. Go back to your shadetree latte and leave the discussion to men of action.

By that respect, as you have not served in politics and have no right to discuss it. Don't worry about being an armchair politician. Go back to your gun-oil souffl

[JohnG]

By that respect, as you have not served in politics and have no right to discuss it. Don't worry about being an armchair politician. Go back to your gun-oil souffl

[Fish]

No matter if the conspiracy theorists are right or wrong about what they imagine the world to be.

Only because you

Edited August 11, 2008 by Fish

[Fish]

I just mean you don

[slay]

this is the single biggest problem. i am not sure what it will take for people to start thinking... blowing up buildings on 9/11 didnt seem to do a thing, attacking another country did n't do a thing (britney's problems still were more important), taking away peoples rights does not seem to do anything. you know, we can go on like this but we all agree that this is not going to lead us to a better place.

watch this, this about sums it up best:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/09/fox-news-edwards/

"Fox News Host Refuses To Talk About Russia-Georgia War, Insists On Covering Edwards

[rocket754]

I need to step back and reevaluate the information I read (I am sure not everything I read is true) before I can make any real decision about anything. I need to hear both sides of the arguement first.

For instance, I was reading about how Hitler burned down his own parliment...then in the following events afterward he issued a Patriot Act type bill for his country to protect themselves from communists.....and I think we all know how everything ended up in history.

I MEAN IS THAT TRUE?? Good hell....that sounds a little to close to home but I may be reading into it a little to much and my line of thinking may be askew. I think I have paralysis by analysis right now. I watched that interview with russo....what he was saying about his buddy rockafeller....geeeze...rockafeller wants to eventually chip us all and have all our money tied to the chip and if we step out of line they will just shut off the chip? WTF? I know I can't read into that very much but this crap is not science fiction...we have RFID chip available and I read about how they are being put in everything possible in my tech blogs. Then I remember that florida family who volunteered to have RFID chips put in them because of fear. Their whole rational was after 911 they wanted to make sure the family was safe.

All this stuff makes my stomach get upset. sigh.... I guess I better get to work now.

[JohnG]

There was an interesting article in the International Herald Tribune perhaps five years ago. They sampled their own editorial columns from the past century.

What they found was that every generation thought that the world was falling apart, that their period was unique and marked the imminent decline of America as a world power, the decline of Western civilization in general, the decline of youth in general as a suitable custodian of the world's future, etc., etc..

The American public has NEVER been especially well informed. That is why the United States is a Republic and not a pure democracy. And as long as civilization has existed there have been little games people play to garner power to themselves. Lamentable? Sure. But that is part of our nature as a species. Crying woe and handwringing will do nothing to change it. We cannot control others' actions - only our own. So try to do the best you can, be honest and kind to your fellow, vote responsibly, and accept that ugliness is as much a part of the world as beauty.

[rocket754]

True...I don't want people to think I am running around yelling "the sky is falling!" I just don't want to end up being a big dummy about the world around me.

I think it comes down to me saying WTF? in disbelief- everytime I try to educate myself a little more about our world. The majority of people my age just don't give a rats a$$ and that included me for years. Not to say I am on some crusade now. It's just that for years my social circle has only been concerned with our new cars, bigger houses, where we went on vacation, check out my new Rolex dude!..

Not to say I totally reject such material things cause I don't. I still want all that stuff....pretty bad actually. I guess it's just a battle with myself really. One part of me thinks "what is the point of this crap?" the other part of me can't get past the total "high" I get by owning all these toys . That's a whole other issue all together and I am getting off topic now.

I am tired and I think I am going to go across the street to get my 4 dollar latte from starbizzle...(starbucks)

[JohnG]

True...I don't want people to think I am running around yelling "the sky is falling!" I just don't want to end up being a big dummy about the world around me.

An annual subscription to the Economist is a good start.

It is an easily digestable dose of news - well researched and written - politically somewhere in the center - and covers the entire globe. Despite the title, this weekly publication covers politics, art, literature, science, social issues, the environment, and (of course) economic and business issues. The analysis is sophisticated and in depth. The letters to the editor are not censored and can be as illuminating as the articles they critique. You will get the important news from all the continents without many space wasting glossy photos and without ANY of the nonsense tabloid stuff.

In case you are still not convinced, just look at how well reps and the Economist mesh:

[rocket754]

An annual subscription to the Economist is a good start.

It is an easily digestable dose of news - well researched and written - politically somewhere in the center - and covers the entire globe. Despite the title, this weekly publication covers politics, art, literature, science, social issues, the environment, and (of course) economic and business issues. The analysis is sophisticated and in depth. The letters to the editor are not censored and can be as illuminating as the articles they critique. You will get the important news from all the continents without many space wasting glossy photos and without ANY of the nonsense tabloid stuff.

In case you are still not convinced, just look at how well reps and the Economist mesh:

whoa...now....thanks to my public school education I can only read at a 9th grade level John. Baby steps.....baby steps.

My dad likes the Economist and he is an old school farmer. He still farms to this day! I am sure that is where I get my line of thinking from. thanks a lot dad

It's hard sometimes to try to be informed. My wife always makes light of my views in jest of course. She says...."oooh boy, so what does the conspiracy theorist have to say now?" I do need that from time to time cause if I didn't have her I would be in my basement hunkered down reading anti-goverment websites with a aluminum foil cap on.

[tenacious_b]

I have always observed a decent amount off commonality between members of this forum when it comes to off topic subject matter, even if it is a simple matter of agreeing to disagree. I am a well educated male in my mid 30's enjoying a good career and a good family life. I surround myself with people that pretty much fit that bill. Among my friends, there is some agreement and some disagreement regarding these various conspiracy theories, but in the final analysis, even the doubters in my group concede that given the preponderance of evidence, that at the very least, the story presented by the government controlled (or at least influenced) media is not the truth. I cannot believe that more people here don't feel that way, or at the very least can say, "I can see where you are coming from..." The aggression with which these ideas are attacked lead me to believe that those attacking these ideas simply cannot concede that they are valid to any degree, because the cannot or refuse to handle what that concession does to their perception of the world, and the relative degree of control they allow themselves to believe they have over their lives. Are more people not speaking up because they are embarrassed that they espouse certain beliefs, or are you afraid of being made fun of? I don't consider myself, or anyone else that doesn't by the "company line" from the U.S. government, to be crazy, especially given the long laundry list of past events that now validate our current suspicions. Well, just everyone keep an open mind, do your own research, draw your own conclusions, and don't be bullied into conforming to what you are told is an acceptable opinion. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.

Bryan

lol. interest of our country??? not anymore..

[milsub5517]

I agree, people are afraid of being embarrassed because they ingonred whats was going in the country for so long.. a lot of people are full of themselves and still think that the USA is the sh..t and USA CAN NOT POSSIBLY be wrong. USA media gladly helps them support "their beliefs".

BTW, have you heard that Europian Union is now thinking of creating what they call "EU CIA"?? Guess who is going to help and cooperate with them? --> American CIA. Guess, why they are creating it? "war on terror" definitely helped. Now, whoever is running CIA will potentially have access to all of you europian folks, your privacy, your rights --> your lives and lives of your KIDS.

Regarding the RFID chips - yes the plan is to chip everyone of us. you think im crazy? look around. RFID chips have been around for a long time, they are used in private businesses, they are used in our cars (ever used EZ-pass, Fast lane etc), they are used in pets as an identification, what do you think is the next logical step???

I have always observed a decent amount off commonality between members of this forum when it comes to off topic subject matter, even if it is a simple matter of agreeing to disagree. I am a well educated male in my mid 30's enjoying a good career and a good family life. I surround myself with people that pretty much fit that bill. Among my friends, there is some agreement and some disagreement regarding these various conspiracy theories, but in the final analysis, even the doubters in my group concede that given the preponderance of evidence, that at the very least, the story presented by the government controlled (or at least influenced) media is not the truth. I cannot believe that more people here don't feel that way, or at the very least can say, "I can see where you are coming from..." The aggression with which these ideas are attacked lead me to believe that those attacking these ideas simply cannot concede that they are valid to any degree, because the cannot or refuse to handle what that concession does to their perception of the world, and the relative degree of control they allow themselves to believe they have over their lives. Are more people not speaking up because they are embarrassed that they espouse certain beliefs, or are you afraid of being made fun of? I don't consider myself, or anyone else that doesn't by the "company line" from the U.S. government, to be crazy, especially given the long laundry list of past events that now validate our current suspicions. Well, just everyone keep an open mind, do your own research, draw your own conclusions, and don't be bullied into conforming to what you are told is an acceptable opinion. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.

Bryan

[JohnG]

I have always observed a decent amount off commonality between members of this forum when it comes to off topic subject matter, even if it is a simple matter of agreeing to disagree. I am a well educated male in my mid 30's enjoying a good career and a good family life. I surround myself with people that pretty much fit that bill. Among my friends, there is some agreement and some disagreement regarding these various conspiracy theories, but in the final analysis, even the doubters in my group concede that given the preponderance of evidence, that at the very least, the story presented by the government controlled (or at least influenced) media is not the truth. I cannot believe that more people here don't feel that way, or at the very least can say, "I can see where you are coming from..." The aggression with which these ideas are attacked lead me to believe that those attacking these ideas simply cannot concede that they are valid to any degree, because the cannot or refuse to handle what that concession does to their perception of the world, and the relative degree of control they allow themselves to believe they have over their lives. Are more people not speaking up because they are embarrassed that they espouse certain beliefs, or are you afraid of being made fun of? I don't consider myself, or anyone else that doesn't by the "company line" from the U.S. government, to be crazy, especially given the long laundry list of past events that now validate our current suspicions. Well, just everyone keep an open mind, do your own research, draw your own conclusions, and don't be bullied into conforming to what you are told is an acceptable opinion. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.

Bryan

Now see when I read this post, it sounds to me like you are saying if you DON'T believe that Bush downed the Trade Center Towers you are a drone and have been brainwashed by the Big Brother.

It is true that I make fun of conspiracy theories. I have been in enough serious debates over them to realize the futility of even taking the whole things seriously. You will get the same circular logic seen above: if you cannot concede these theories are valid to any degree (using your words here), it is only because (paraphrasing now) you cannot handle the truth - it would overwhelm you. Friend, you cannot argue against this logic and so I don't.

As to the "company line" from the government. It is one thing to admit that the government uses various methods to attempt to minimize negative coverage of its own incompetence (there is ample evidence for this) - it is quite another to accuse it of complicity in mass murder of its own citizens. That is the view these theories are advocating.

Again, I won't get into debating specific points because I will never convince you and you DEFINITELY aren't going to convince me (God forbid). But something for you to consider. I can go to any city in any Arab or Muslim country and find, in minutes, people who will argue, with just as many "facts" and with all the same conviction that there were no Jews in the Towers on 9/11, The whole thing was a frame up by Israel to put the U.S. into a war against Islam. Millions of people believe this. If you point out the fact that there were many Jews in the towers? That is, they will say, according to the state-controlled media in the U.S. - and you can't trust the lists of the names of the victims given out by the government. It is all part of the cover up. This is the EXACT SAME LOGIC that you are using.

Once you accept the basic premise that all facts are in question, that ANYTHING can be manipulated, that ALL sources of information (except your own) have been compromised, then ANY theory becomes equally valid on its face.

That is the beauty of circular logic.

[JohnG]

Regarding the RFID chips - yes the plan is to chip everyone of us. you think im crazy?

I am beginning to.

[milsub5517]

i wish i could talk to you about this in 30 years. lol.

I am beginning to.

[JohnG]

i wish i could talk to you about this in 30 years. lol.

i wish you could see what happens to the face of the first [censored] who tries to put a tracking chip under my skin. lol.

But seriously, by then you won't want to talk about this anyway because they will have nano-bots in your brain regulating your brain chemistry. You will be as docile as a lamb.

[Pugwash]

For instance, I was reading about how Hitler burned down his own parliment...then in the following events afterward he issued a Patriot Act type bill for his country to protect themselves from communists.....and I think we all know how everything ended up in history.

I MEAN IS THAT TRUE?? Good hell....that sounds a little to close to home but I may be reading into it a little to much and my line of thinking may be askew.

It's disputed as to whether or not the fire that cemented the Nazi party's control of Germany was caused by the Communists, as the courts of the time claimed, or by the Nazis themselves as a false flag action.

I very much doubt that 9/11 was a false flag as the sheer number of people needed to keep it quiet is too large to be possible, especially with the information technology we have at our disposal today.

[JohnG]

I very much doubt that 9/11 was a false flag as the sheer number of people needed to keep it quiet is too large to be possible, especially with the information technology we have at our disposal today.

This is the fatal flaw in 99% of all conspiracy theories.