Rep Expectations

[sylar_watches]

I'm interested to find out everyone's views, thoughts or comments on this...

How do the current crop of 300 to 400 usd reps compare to gen watches in the same price range? I guess my comparison criteria is:

1. Accuracy

2. AR quality

3. Lume

4. Long Term Reliability (5 years?)

Do the reps stand out as good watches in there own right and therefore worth the money? Or are they only good value when you compare them to the price of the gen they are a rep of? I'll assume the rep has passed some sort of QC.

I'm asking the question as I'm new to reps and want to know what to expect. The reps I have been looking at so far are:

1. PO 4th gen

2. Pan 111 H

3. Oris CC Ltd Ed

[Ztech]

I can't speak of the watches on your list, but I can speak of the supposed "super" rep that I do own, which is the Graham CF. I was genuinely surprised by the quality and finish on this watch. It definitely was worth the $400 I paid for it then.

[whitestripes]

Here's the thing. You can spend roughly $400 on a Seiko Sumo or Samurai and I guarantee the lume, reliability, and longevity of the movement and watch will far surpass the reps. But you have to consider why it is we are buying reps of $2000 and up watches--we love the designs of the high end watches, but hate the price, resulting in this illegal business.

You are not paying fore reliability or lume. The high prices that the superreps command are a function of their desirability (expensive brands, popular models), availability (Hublot big bang, anyone, with "OEM" bezel?), movement (Basic ETA movements are NOT $400), and accuracy to the gen.

Nowhere is reliability a factor. As long as it doesnt break down within a month of receipt, the dealers are not liable for it. You are paying for looks.

[JohnG]

I also can't speak to the specific watches but in that price range you can get very nice watches that most gen owners would not distinguish from the gen unless they were told that one was a fake and they were placed side by side. In that case they would find differences - if they were looking VERY closely at a well-lit non-moving watch and they already KNEW or SUSPECTED it was a fake. Most of the watches in that price range cannot be id'd as reps while on the wrist. We see all the difference here - in watches that are illuminated, blown up 5-10 times life size, and with an opportunity to really STUDY them.

As to reliability - most of them are great and with servicing and repair can last indefinitely. All mechanical watches have to be serviced - gens too.

AR - depends on the particular rep.

Lume - most rep lume is not that great.

READ, use the search function, and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about these watches.

Good luck.

[USMC8404]

Dollar for dollar you should expect to get a good value as long as you do your research. Of course if you are looking for a "perfect watch" for three or four hundred dollars you are going to be searching a long time. There will always be some issues. You just have to determine what you are willing to live with and what you can do without. But if it means buying a $400.00 Seiko or an MBK Sub rep with an ETA, I would go for the MBK (or Euromariner) for that matter.

[JohnG]

Nowhere is reliability a factor. As long as it doesnt break down within a month of receipt, the dealers are not liable for it. You are paying for looks.

Depends on dealer but most of the dealers here will stand behind their watches for longer than a month. Josh has been known to replace watches a year after purchase. Ruby's warranty is six months. I don't know where you are getting the "one month" thing.

Reliability may not be important to THIS poster, but it is to a lot of people and most people here get years of enjoyment out of their watches. And even with a cheap 21J Asian movement - if it breaks - a replacement is $25. No need to throw a watch away because of movement problems.

[Dave123]

Hi Sylar (hmmm...).....

Reps are not about if they are as well made as a Timex....they are about buying what is suppose to be a 5k to 30k watch,for a few hundred bucks.....nothing more then that,anything else is nonsense.

Welcome to rep buying.

[pfran42]

Stop what you are doing...take a deep breath...clear your head.....go to one of the trusted dealer's websites......order the PO.

When you actually look at it while holding the watch in your hands, your questions will all be answered.

Just take the plunge. I was in your exact situation.....then my SSD showed up and I was amazed by the quality!

Good luck

[RobbieG]

A lot of little questions here, but the big answer is yes, $300 gives you a lot of watch for the money relative to the genuine counterpart in at least the PO and 111 camps. Assuming that you can source watches with genuine ETA movements, with proper service both of these should last a lifetime as the movement is always going to be responsible for longevity or lack thereof. The 45MM PO is more accurate than the 42MM and there are some great offerings in the 11 range as well. Suffice it to say that the accuracy should be more than adequate as well.

Both the AR and lume are usually going to require upgrading and the cost including labor for both double AR and reluming the dial will probably average $250 or so per watch, with $150 or so going to the lume and a hundred or so going to the double AR crystal work and the labor to remove it and reinstall it in your watch. So the real price is now $550 or so for a PO or 111 that is as genlike as can be without jumping into gen parts and/or stuff like crowns, CG's, hands, etc.

So when you compare say $550 running at less than 10% of the gen PAM or around 25% of the value of a gen PO you can draw conclusions from there. A rep which costs upward of a quarter of the cost of the gen for some is absurd and for others it makes sense. I'm sure the Oris probably falls in this range too? Certainly a nicely modded 111 when compared to the gen is the most tempting being that usually gen PAMs don't get discounted much and with the ability to swaps straps, etc. it makes for a lot of versatility.

I might suggest getting a closed back PAM to you though as then you can have a stock real ETA 6497 movement in it without getting into the hybrid China bridges and such in the display backs. Plus those movements never look right anyway. Maybe an PAM 1 might be a better choice? Mod it up a little with the cannon pin fix & superlume (no AR is needed) and you will have a pretty good rep that should last a lifetime with proper service. Also of note is that those particular movements (if true Swiss) are just bulletproof. My local watchmaker and I were looking at a watch yesterday and he was joking saying that 6497's actually run better when they are dirty. LOL. Hope that helps you in your journey. These choices are never simple and there is lots to think about.

[LordRasta]

Expect to wait for your watch to arrive.

Expect to deal with customs/shipping.

Expect a watch to arrive DOA from time to time.

Expect to be disappointed from time to time.

Expect there not to be good QA.

Expect drop shipping.

Expect to get a gen if you can't deal with any of this because no rep will make you happy.

[Raijor]

Expect to wait for your watch to arrive.

Expect to deal with customs/shipping.

Expect a watch to arrive DOA from time to time.

Expect to be disappointed from time to time.

Expect there not to be good QA.

Expect drop shipping.

Expect to get a gen if you can't deal with any of this because no rep will make you happy.

I second what LordRasta is saying ... so true

[P4GTR]

Expect to wait for your watch to arrive.

Expect to deal with customs/shipping.

Expect a watch to arrive DOA from time to time.

Expect to be disappointed from time to time.

Expect there not to be good QA.

Expect drop shipping.

Expect to get a gen if you can't deal with any of this because no rep will make you happy.

But when they're great, they're really great.

And gen ETA's will perform just like the gen ETAs that drive gen watches, omega, breitling, etc. There is no reason these have to be throw away items at all. Stay away from asian 2813 and added comlication 7750's.

[Mickey Padge]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the V2 Breitling Skyland

Probably the best replica released at the moment, and only $280-310 delivered.....

Not my watch, but I took the pictures, click to expand:

Cheers!

[JohnG]

Expect there not to be good QA.

Expect drop shipping.

Depends on dealer.

Research your dealers - there are lots to choose from and they are not all the same.

[sylar_watches]

Thanks for all your replies.

I have decided to start my collection off with a Chopard Mille Miglia Gran Turismo XL (non-chrono, A7750).

I will post pictures when it arrives.

[TeeJay]

I also can't speak to the specific watches but in that price range you can get very nice watches that most gen owners would not distinguish from the gen unless they were told that one was a fake and they were placed side by side. In that case they would find differences - if they were looking VERY closely at a well-lit non-moving watch and they already KNEW or SUSPECTED it was a fake. Most of the watches in that price range cannot be id'd as reps while on the wrist. We see all the difference here - in watches that are illuminated, blown up 5-10 times life size, and with an opportunity to really STUDY them.

As to reliability - most of them are great and with servicing and repair can last indefinitely. All mechanical watches have to be serviced - gens too.

AR - depends on the particular rep.

Lume - most rep lume is not that great.

READ, use the search function, and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about these watches.

Good luck.

Couldn't've said it any better than that. Reps only tend to be questioned if they are Rolex Or, as mentioned, if the person knows or suspects that it is a rep. Most of the time, people won't even notice if you're wearing a watch, let alone be able to identify it, and even then, an even smaller percentage who would even consider if it was a rep or not, let alone actually have the knowledge to identify it 'in the wild', rather than on the screen (with plenty of time for study )

In terms of quality, I think Lord Rasta summed it all up perfectly. Expect the worst, and, most likely, you will be pleasantly surprized. Sure, we all occasionally wind up receiving a lemon, but, they're normally fixable or exchangeable, so even that isn't really an issue

Best of luck with your purchases