Land of the free?

[Pugwash]

And how, at this early stage, do we know that the info the police have doesn't point to one of these hippy groups as being an Al-Qaeda sleeper team?

Just as an example.

Because domestic Al-Qa'eda sleeper-cells are a work of fiction, especially when you're talking about white hippy college kids.

[TeeJay]

I remember reading about how anti-war protests in San Francisco caused the deaths of people who were in ambulances which got stuck in traffic jams, before anyone in the warzone actually got killed. When this was put to the hippies, they claimed that they would never do anything like block an ambulance trying to get someone to a hospital... Completely oblivious to the fact that they wouldn't even see an ambulance when it's trapped in traffic several blocks away

I think it's a sad state of affairs when a SWAT team is needed to bring down a group of hippies, but, when they put their minds to it, they [hippies] can cause quite a bit of trouble. That said, they were probably just being typically elitist and uppity, and made the mistake of pissing off the wrong person with enough connections to get them taken down by the heavy mob. A bit like how David Cameron set the police on the hoodie who dared to point his fingers at him 'gun-style'

[Tom Hawkes]

Well I'd be prepared to read stuff like that on a daily basis in the near future, if I lived in the US.. Everything goes according to plan, I guess..

[KB]

Because domestic Al-Qa'eda sleeper-cells are a work of fiction, especially when you're talking about white hippy college kids.

You must have missed this bit Puggy...

Just as an example.

Ken

[Pugwash]

You must have missed this bit Puggy...

Yes, but why not at that point say "They could have evidence of extra-terrestrial life" or "their perpetual motion machine was nearing completion" as they're just as hypothetical and just as likely.

Looking for outrageous examples that strike fear in the common man is a technique used by dictators to justify diminishing rights, especially the rights of protest and public gathering. It's step one, basically.

[Pugwash]

I remember reading about how anti-war protests in San Francisco caused the deaths of people who were in ambulances which got stuck in traffic jams, before anyone in the warzone actually got killed.

I'd love to see the source for this sort of reporting. Does it also use this yardstick for sporting events, celebrations, carnivals and the like?

ie. Smells like bovine scatology to me.

[KB]

Depends Puggy because I don't see it as an outrageous example, the guys from Sept 11 were comfortably ensconced in the USA living normal lives as too the Madrid train bombers.

But even then sleeper cells are not anywhere near as scarey as the home grown terrorist who were behind the London bombings and these might be the kind of people the cops were looking for.

Ken

[kosemkamtsan]

let us all recall that ted kennedy along with many other liberal innocents had recently been placed on the "no fly list" for suspected terrorist activity. I have little confidence in a bi-partisan anti-terrorism platform to be carried out within our own US borders until obama's cabinet takes over and literally decriminalizes our bureaucracy.

[fakemaster]

[TeeJay]

I'd love to see the source for this sort of reporting.ie. Smells like bovine scatology to me.

It was under open discussion on SuicideGirls.com's political forum at the time. A very left-wing group, if ever there was one.

PS

It's a new avatar. I think I'm way too geeky for this crowd if no-one's got it just yet.

Am I right in thinking it's a variant of 'tracking/identification' technology, which, in it's most common form, is seen and known as a bar-code?

[JohnG]

Land of the Free was NEVER Land of the Perfect.

Assuming the worst - that this was an abuse of police powers to preemptively detain a few college students who might have been planning to throw turds and insults at some Republicans - there exist in the U.S. many remedies available to the detained. They will have the assistance of the ACLU and numerous media outlets to make their case. They may sue if they so choose and if there is evidence sufficient to sustain a claim that their civil rights were violated.

If there were no freedom in the U.S. this would not have shown up in the media, it would be be being debated now by U.S. citizens without fear of reprisal, and there would be no avenue of legal redress available.

On the face, and without knowing all the facts, the story makes me uncomfortable. But suggesting (as some have) that this is the end of freedom in the U.S. is patently ridiculous. Little more than a half century ago in many places in the U.S. African Americans could be legally excluded from "white-only" restaurants, homosexuals could be jailed or worse for "crimes" committed in the privacy of their own homes, and anyone who dared to criticize Senator Joe McCarthy was labeled a communist and saw his life destroyed in extra-judicial witch hunts.

All in all I would say it is a little premature to sound the death knell for freedom in the United States.

[chronology1066]

Amazing how many people are getting screwed in our democratic countries. The abuse of laws designed to protect us is and has always been pretty much the stock in trade of governments. If you are all watching big brother... you might have missed the point....

a little example in the UK

Council in trouble for spying on parents

Another example

and a slightly different law, the massively abused "Human Rights Act - as used by scumbag kiddy fiddlers to get back in the UK -

Gary Glitters Human Right have been violated quote

I await the backlash on this one .........

Now he;s here and the government will spend lots of our hard earned cash keeping an eye on this person....... as with most criminals, once the law is broken in any way like this thy have selected to live outside our laws and regulation and as such forfeit their right to protection under the law. Not right wing, just a parent.

Bottom line is law abiding, working daily grind people are easy targets. Look at motoring penalties, less points (and so chances of losing your permit but lots of ways to pay fines to the gov) ..... and since when do terrorists use toothpaste and baby milk to blow stuff up

Current Restrictions

the real deal

Proven facts

People must love living in fear

[Tom Hawkes]

...

But suggesting (as some have) that this is the end of freedom in the U.S. is patently ridiculous. Little more than a half century ago in many places in the U.S. African Americans could be legally excluded from "white-only" restaurants, homosexuals could be jailed or worse for "crimes" committed in the privacy of their own homes, and anyone who dared to criticize Senator Joe McCarthy was labeled a communist and saw his life destroyed in extra-judicial witch hunts.

...

Yeah it is all good now because now you can get detained for no reason at all.. I don't get it.. How many times does the US government have to shout 'F_ck You' right in its citizens face till people wake up?

[JohnG]

Yeah it is all good now because now you can get detained for no reason at all.. I don't get it.. How many times does the US government have to shout 'F_ck You' right in its citizens face till people wake up?

Well you get a zero for reading comprehension.

I never said "it is all good."

I said it is a gross exaggeration to suggest that freedom is dead in the United States. There are abuses, there have ALWAYS been abuses, and there WILL always be abuses - not just in the United States but in every country on the face of the earth. The question is whether there are remedies available to those whose rights are violated. The answer is that the remedies today are equal to or greater than those available at any given time in the past.

I don't know how to say it any simpler than that.

[Tom Hawkes]

Wow. Now you are rating me? Awesome..

I do understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that there never was a 'land of the free', let alone a 'land of the perfect'. So theres no point in saying 'oh you know x years ago it was much worse and now it got better'.. who cares?

[Pugwash]

Am I right in thinking it's a variant of 'tracking/identification' technology, which, in it's most common form, is seen and known as a bar-code?

close.

[Tom Hawkes]

sms code..

[TeeJay]

close.

Close? Dude, I was bang on Have a look at the pic, on this page. The little square thing... Looks remarkably like your avatar

It's a variation of bar-code technology

[JohnG]

Close? Dude, I was bang on Have a look at the pic, on this page. The little square thing... Looks remarkably like your avatar

It's a variation of bar-code technology

Don't look at it too long or you will start believing everything they say on Fox News.

[TeeJay]

Don't look at it too long or you will start believing everything they say on Fox News.

My tinfoil hat is at the ready

[Pugwash]

Close? Dude, I was bang on Have a look at the pic, on this page. The little square thing... Looks remarkably like your avatar

It's a variation of bar-code technology

Yes, it's obviously a 2D barcode, but what does it mean?

[JohnG]

Yes, it's obviously a 2D barcode, but what does it mean?

Fair and Balanced

[TeeJay]

Yes, it's obviously a 2D barcode, but what does it mean?

Now that, I have no idea on whatsoever, as I don't know how to read the information... At least I knew what it was

If I had to guess, I'd think it's either tracking info for something you've bought (a rep would make sense) or, it's some kind of personal information transposed into that format. That'd just be a guess though

[rocket754]

Fox news... :thumbdown:

I am so tired of educating myself I am almost ready to go back to my life of bliss and ignorance!

Check out the latest piece of legislation in the senate to be passed (I hope it doesn't)

Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

For those people who are not familiar with this act, it's directed at US citizens and basically takes away some more civil liberties.

Ideologically -based violence???WTF? The internet is also being targeted on this bill. They can identify you as a terrorist even if you have an idea that doesn't conform to a society norm. They can throw you in jail for having an idea?? The bill is written so vaguely that it's interpretation can be applied to just about any individual or group. If they throw you in jail you do realize we don't have Habeus Corpus because you would be identified as a enemy combatant (military commission act signed into law by George W).

Why on earth did no new agency cover the story of how our right to trial by jury has been taken away for bills like this. What happen to innocent until proven guilty?

Here is some definitions from the bill itself.

For purposes of this subtitle:

`(1) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

`(2) RADICALIZATION- The term `radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically-based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

`(3) IDEOLOGICALLY-BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically-based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

=@ God save us all.

I hate politics and I really want to refrain from posting political crap. I just feel like people should know the junk being written and put before our law makers.

[JohnG]

I hate politics and I really want to refrain from posting political crap. I just feel like people should know the junk being written and put before our law makers.

Bills like that and much worse are drafted all the time. There is no prohibition on submitting legislation.

The vast majority of it is never passed. Some is. But laws that are un-Constitutional are challenged in the Federal Courts and are struck down all the time, in whole or in part. This is a normal part of the functioning of the legal system - not a once in a while occurrence. Though it is true that "rights" are somewhat fluid because the ultimate arbiter of what the Constitution actually means (The Supreme Court of the United States) is composed of human beings, even a conservative court, such as we have now, is no rubber stamp to violations of basic rights.

If people don't like a proposed piece of legislation they should write their representatives to say so. Because I am pretty sure those representatives are not monitoring this forum to find out what their constituents think.