I need some help

[freddy333]

The Silix case has an elevated ring that stands proud of the top plane of the case, which essentially sits between the lens & bezel

I knew the ring would need to be ground down in order to allow sufficient room for MY's flat-bottomed plastic insert to drop down & fit into the bottom of the bezel (the case is designed for a concave metal bezel that sits above the top of this ring). But, after grinding off as much metal as I can without compromising the ring's lip (around which the tiny bezel spring clips), the insert is only just barely sitting far enough into the bezel bed to look correct.

However, instead of resting, flat, on the bottom of the bezel floor, the insert is resting on top of the ring (albeit considerably reduced from its original height). So while the insert looks normal from the outside, it is only coming into contact with the bezel around its perimeter, so it is unable to 'lock' into the bezel. Because of this, the insert tends to stay in place when the bezel is rotated since it shares more contact area with the crystal than with the bezel.

So, obviously, I need to find a way to anchor the insert into the bezel so it turns along with the bezel instead of remaining in place or slipping as the bezel is rotated.

My 1st thought was to cement the perimeter/edge of the insert to the inner edge of the bezel, which will certainly lock the insert's movement into the bezel's. However, because it is much easier (& safer) to remove/install the bezel with the insert removed than it is to perform that operation with the insert in place, that option is not optimal.

The other idea I had was to cut a channel into the underside of the insert, along the path where the insert comes into contact with the ring, which would allow the insert to then drop down into the bezel where it can lock into its correct place without the need for cement (at least, not a permanent type of cement). But, of course, for obvious reasons, that option is not the best 1 either.

Anyone have a better (& realistic) suggestion?

Meanwhile, is this starting to look familiar (I am using the Silix Sub dial/movement for the time being)

[ubiquitous]

The method of channeling a lip around the underside of the insert seems to make the most sense, but is quite risky. Do you have an underside shot of the insert, by chance?

Aside from the current road block, the project is looking good!

[By-Tor]

Aside from the current road block, the project is looking good!

Indeed.

What are the dial options?

[JoJo35]

I think I would attempt to grind the crystal ring lower so it matches the height of the bezel. How much would be left of it? Do you think it would snap when you pressed it over the crystal? It appears the added metal has no purpose other than to hold the crystal tighter.

I think if you did grind it down to the point where it would compromise the strength of it, you could always enlarge the ID so it would slip over a crystal without too much stress. Hypo glue around the bottom of the ring & edge of the crystal would certainly help to strengthen things up.

[JoJo35]

PS: I think trying to channel a lip into the underside of the insert would be out, because after all, the plastic insert is reverse painted

[freddy333]

The method of channeling a lip around the underside of the insert seems to make the most sense, but is quite risky. Do you have an underside shot of the insert, by chance?

Aside from the current road block, the project is looking good!

Thanks, Ubi.

Here is the insert backside

[freddy333]

What are the dial options?

As I am unwilling to pay NDTrading's outrageous prices (& cannot afford a gen dial), the plan is to vintageize & use the 1675 dial from the movement donor watch that is on its way from Josh. The 1675 dial shares the same basic layout as the 6542 with the exception of having 4 words below GMT-Master instead of the 6542's 3 words. This is a temporary option until something better comes along

Option 2 is this aftermarket dial, which is obviously closer than the 1675, but it is pretty 'off' as well

[freddy333]

I think I would attempt to grind the crystal ring lower so it matches the height of the bezel. How much would be left of it? Do you think it would snap when you pressed it over the crystal? It appears the added metal has no purpose other than to hold the crystal tighter.

The ring is actually the part that the bezel spring latches onto to hold the bezel onto the case. As it is, I ground the ring down about as far as I think I can go without compromising the integrity of the lip on the side of the ring that the bezel spring latches onto. If I grind it down any further, the lip is likely to collapse or tear off. Then, there would be nothing for the bezel to latch/lock onto. (I had also considered simply grinding the ring entirely off, which would eliminate the insert issue, but then I would be forced to permanently cement the bezel into place since the ring would no longer be available to hold it in place. Ultimately, I would be willing to exchange visual correctness for bezel functionality, if push comes to shove. But I decided to leave that option as a last resort.)

I think if you did grind it down to the point where it would compromise the strength of it, you could always enlarge the ID so it would slip over a crystal without too much stress. Hypo glue around the bottom of the ring & edge of the crystal would certainly help to strengthen things up.

Sorry, what do you mean by 'ID'?

[freddy333]

PS: I think trying to channel a lip into the underside of the insert would be out, because after all, the plastic insert is reverse painted

Exactly. But it is an option since I have been considering the removal of a ring of paint on the underside of the insert to match a couple of gens that appeared to have been worn down similarly. But the gens are just missing a bit of paint, not the actual insert material itself & I do not know how the insert would look with the material channeled out? So, while an option, this is not my favorite option.

[JoJo35]

Sorry, what do you mean by 'ID'?

Oops, sorry. I meant "inside diameter"

[JoJo35]

Ok, check this out, here's another idea:

Maybe you could build up the top side of the bezel so that when the insert is in there, it would clear the lip. This would of course create another problem, the fact that the insert would be riding too high. Perhaps you could gently sand the top of the plastic insert and re polish to give the faux impression that the insert was "inserted" correctly into the bezel. Of course the insert would have to be glued to the bezel. hmm... stupid idea?

[freddy333]

Ok, check this out, here's another idea:

Maybe you could build up the top side of the bezel so that when the insert is in there, it would clear the lip. This would of course create another problem, the fact that the insert would be riding too high. Perhaps you could gently sand the top of the plastic insert and re polish to give the faux impression that the insert was "inserted" correctly into the bezel. Of course the insert would have to be glued to the bezel. hmm... stupid idea?

No, in this case, not stupid at all. But I would rather not modify the topside of the insert if at all possible. Modding dials & shiny plastic pieces are definitely not my forte.

[freddy333]

Oops, sorry. I meant "inside diameter"

Ok. I will probably have to use hypo-cement to secure/seal the crystal either way, but I am not sure how to go about enlarging (adding material to) the ring or crystal to take up the slack? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[Tribal]

So what I understand that the lip

on the case hold the whole bezel in place?

If so than there is huge risk to grind it down

and the bezel is loose on the case.

Is there no retaining ring on this case?

to grind down a line in the Insert seems not a good option

Huge risk to damage the acrylic and backside numbers on it.

[JoJo35]

Ok. I will probably have to use hypo-cement to secure/seal the crystal either way, but I am not sure how to go about enlarging (adding material to) the ring or crystal to take up the slack? Or am I misunderstanding you?

I thought that if it were possible to grind the exposed lip of the crystal ring off, it would weaken the ring substantially. If you were to use a gen tropic 116 (or 115), and it was a tight fit to get the ring over it, it might make things a bit easier if you were to grind away a small amount of the inside diameter of the crystal ring, thus relieving some of the stress on the ring as it was pressed over the crystal. I've never seen one stretch and break, but you never know what might happen after you ground the top half of it off so the insert would clear.

[TeeJay]

How about....

Completely stripping the case, then, with a narrow strip of sandpaper running the length of your forefinger, reach up through the case, and gradually file down the ring from the inside, rather than trying to get a file over the lip of the bezel, or chanelling into the insert? Time consuming? Absolutely. But, it will certainly give you a lot of controll over the process Best of luck with your project

[freddy333]

So what I understand that the lip

on the case hold the whole bezel in place?

Yes.

If so than there is huge risk to grind it down

and the bezel is loose on the case.

Is there no retaining ring on this case?

No. The crystal is essentially held on by cement.

to grind down a line in the Insert seems not a good option

Huge risk to damage the acrylic and backside numbers on it.

Agreed. Can you suggest anything that we have not already thought of?

[freddy333]

I thought that if it were possible to grind the exposed lip of the crystal ring off, it would weaken the ring substantially. If you were to use a gen tropic 116 (or 115), and it was a tight fit to get the ring over it, it might make things a bit easier if you were to grind away a small amount of the inside diameter of the crystal ring, thus relieving some of the stress on the ring as it was pressed over the crystal. I've never seen one stretch and break, but you never know what might happen after you ground the top half of it off so the insert would clear.

I am using a gen T116 (that is what you see in the pics above), but if I grind any more of the ring off, there will be no lip left for the bezel spring to latch onto. In that case, I would have to permanently cement the bezel onto the front of the case since the lip on the outside of that ring was all that held the bezel in place.

By the way, here is something nice to look at while we are trying to solve the insert puzzle (note the springbars)

There is just something about seeing gen springbars peeking through the side of a case that makes my heart flutter (in a good way).

[freddy333]

How about....

Completely stripping the case, then, with a narrow strip of sandpaper running the length of your forefinger, reach up through the case, and gradually file down the ring from the inside, rather than trying to get a file over the lip of the bezel, or chanelling into the insert? Time consuming? Absolutely. But, it will certainly give you a lot of controll over the process

That would not help, because the problem is the height of the ring, not its width. Furthermore, if I remove metal from the inner circumference of the ring (which is where the lip resides), I will end up with a bezel that has nothing to latch onto & have done nothing to reduce the height of the ring.

But I appreciate the suggestion. Please keep them coming. I am sure this puzzle can be solved in a way that will leave everything functional, but it will require some out of the box creativity that RWG members are so good at.

[TeeJay]

That would not help, because the problem is the height of the ring, not its width. Furthermore, if I remove metal from the inner circumference of the ring (which is where the lip resides), I will end up with a bezel that has nothing to latch onto & have done nothing to reduce the height of the ring.

But I appreciate the suggestion. Please keep them coming. I am sure this puzzle can be solved in a way that will leave everything functional, but it will require some out of the box creativity that RWG members are so good at.

Sorry, I probably didn't explain what I meant properly I was meaning to reduce the top surface of the ring, not the side surface, by having the paper under your finger, then curling your finger as if 'beckoning' to get the contact with the top of the ring

[freddy333]

Sorry, I probably didn't explain what I meant properly I was meaning to reduce the top surface of the ring, not the side surface, by having the paper under your finger, then curling your finger as if 'beckoning' to get the contact with the top of the ring

I am not sure I see how removing material from the top of the ring with sandpaper would be any different than removing it (faster) with a dremel & grinding bit, as I did. The problem was/is that if I remove any more material from the ring (regardless of what I use to remove the material or from which direction I remove the material from) I will weaken or remove the lip that runs around the outer perimeter of the ring. As it is, there is just a fraction of a millimeter left between the top edge of the lip & the top of the ring. That is, if I remove any more material from the top of the ring (to lower the ring's height), I will probably lose the lip that the bezel spring needs to latch onto. Does that make sense? Or am I still misunderstanding you?

What does everyone think of this idea -- I could apply a bead of silicone sealant (not grease) around the circumference of the bezel......right along the inside outer edge, where the edge of the insert contacts the inner edge of the bezel.

The silicone would fill in the empty space between the floor of the bezel & the underside of the insert and, when dry, should hold the insert in place, while still allowing me to be able to remove the insert should the need arise?

[Tribal]

I understand that the Glass is hold by cement.

Maybe grinding down the lip to the gap that hold

the bezel on the case will be an option.?!?

If not I think you need a other case.

Other option is to work on the Acrylic Insert,

maybe there is a bit space on the bottom to grind it slightly

on the inside to fit.

Don't get me wrong the Case looks damn good also the Bezel and Insert.

But a Glass that is only hold by cement is not really a

good solution.

I had also a vintage one with this solution and I have lot

of problems with it.

[TeeJay]

I am not sure I see how removing material from the top of the ring with sandpaper would be any different than removing it (faster) with a dremel & grinding bit, as I did. The problem was/is that if I remove any more material from the ring (regardless of what I use to remove the material or from which directly I apply the removal) I will weaker or remove the lip that runs around the outer perimeter of the ring. As it is, there is just a fraction of a millimeter left between the top edge of the lip & the top of the ring. That is, if I remove any more material from the top of the ring (to lower the ring's height), I will probably lose the lip that the bezel spring needs to latch onto. Does that make sense? Or am I still misunderstanding you?

I've just had another look at your photo, and have quickly photoshopped some lines on it...

Am I correct in assuming you want to remove the lip highlighted red, but leave the lips highlighted blue?

Is the 'inner lip' one which would be sanded lower (to the same height as the flat track between the raised ring and the outer lip), or would that compromize the function of the spring?

I admit, I had not noticed that 'inner lip' when I first looked, only the larger raised ring. The reason I suggested using a fingertip to sand the top from the inside of the case, was that you would be able to leave the outer lip of the bezel completely untouched. As I said, time consuming, but very precice... Of course, if the 'inner lip' also has to remain, then no, the method I've suggested wouldn't work

[ubiquitous]

Hmmmm... Channeling the underside of the insert is a definite no-go.

The only thing I can suggest is to maybe use some automotive grade double stick tape and press the bezel on that way. It would be non-permanent, provide a bit of build up to the backside of the insert and allow the insert to be secured to the bezel.

Thoughts?

[freddy333]

Am I correct in assuming you want to remove the lip highlighted red, but leave the lips highlighted blue?

Correct. The outer lip (part of the bezel that holds the insert) is not related to this problem & should not be modded in any way.

Is the 'inner lip' one which would be sanded lower (to the same height as the flat track between the raised ring and the outer lip), or would that compromize the function of the spring?

The inner lip (the 'ring' I have been referring to) is what is causing the problem. The bezel insert is supposed to fit down into the bottom of the bezel, but that ring, or inner lip, as you called it, is sticking up where the backside of the insert is supposed to be. The red ring is in the way.

The ring, as you see it in the picture you photoshopped, has already been ground down as far as I can get it without damaging the lip that runs around its outer circumference (this is the other lip that the bezel spring latches onto).

Do you see the flat-sided wire spring that runs around the inside of the bezel

Well, that spring latches onto the underside of that lip that runs around the side of the red ring (the 'inner lip' as you called it). The following picture shows the ring you marked in red before I ground it down. The right-angle below the top forms a 'lip'.....it is this lip that the bezel spring latches onto

The bezel spring latches onto the bottom of that lip. As you can see, there is very little material left between the dotted red line (the current top of that ring) and the right-angled lip below it (covered by the blue arrow). There is also a small black rubber gasket that sits in the groove, which you can see in this picture (the gasket is pushed down & out of the way by the bezel spring when the bezel is installed).

I admit, I had not noticed that 'inner lip' when I first looked, only the larger raised ring. The reason I suggested using a fingertip to sand the top from the inside of the case, was that you would be able to leave the outer lip of the bezel completely untouched. As I said, time consuming, but very precice... Of course, if the 'inner lip' also has to remain, then no, the method I've suggested wouldn't work

The outer ring (blue) is not related to this problem. You can ignore the blue ring.