Why Do You Have To Service A 7750 Before Wear?

[Alan_Schezar]

Hello,

I was wondering why do you have to service a 7750 before you wear it. I already know that the 7750s are: "notoriously poorly put together, and can have dirt and grime (as well as cracked jewels and missing screws) in the movement when they arrive."

However, I would have thought that the higher quality dealers would have them serviced before selling them. Any reason why they wouldn't? Otherwise, you're buying a watch, then immediately sending it back to the dealer for service, which seems like an unnecessary delay and cost.

Thanks in advance,

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=2605

[Pugwash]

However, I would have thought that the higher quality dealers would have them serviced before selling them. Any reason why they wouldn't? Otherwise, you're buying a watch, then immediately sending it back to the dealer for service, which seems like an unnecessary delay and cost.

Sometimes, an Asian 7750 will perform adequately. Sometimes it will not. If you can afford it, it's better to get the watch serviced while it's still new as if it develops any problems, a repair is more costly than a service.

Replicas don't get the same pre-sales service as genuines, as this just adds to the price and when people buy the cheapest possible watch if it looks good, servicing watches loses you sales.

Some dealers will pre-service watches, and this will be reflected in the price. If you want genuine-style quality control, you had better be prepared to pay a little.

Remember, we're buying replicas here.

[Alan_Schezar]

Sometimes, an Asian 7750 will perform adequately. Sometimes it will not. If you can afford it, it's better to get the watch serviced while it's still new as if it develops any problems, a repair is more costly than a service.

Replicas don't get the same pre-sales service as genuines, as this just adds to the price and when people buy the cheapest possible watch if it looks good, servicing watches loses you sales.

Some dealers will pre-service watches, and this will be reflected in the price. If you want genuine-style quality control, you had better be prepared to pay a little.

Remember, we're buying replicas here.

Thanks for the info!

So how can you tell if the watch is genuinely pre-serviced, and not just put at an inflated price to make you think that it is? For example, I'm looking at this PAM 7750 rep for $298 (any comments on the reliability of the 7750b1?):

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...;products_id=90

Thanks again in advance

Edited July 18, 2006 by Alan_Schezar

[slojo]

Without wanting to hijack your thread, does anyone know where I can get a 7750 serviced in the UK, and roughly how much it would cost?

Thanks

[Pugwash]

Without wanting to hijack your thread, does anyone know where I can get a 7750 serviced in the UK, and roughly how much it would cost?

If I knew, I'd not have sent mine off to The Zigmeister.

You're looking at roughly 100 quid for a full 7750 service if you can find anyone.

[Pugwash]

So how can you tell if the watch is genuinely pre-serviced, and not just put at an inflated price to make you think that it is? For example, I'm looking at this PAM 7750 rep for $298 (any comments on the reliability of the 7750b1?):

If it's pre-serviced, it'll say so, and it'll cost well over $350, putting it near ETA 7750 prices, and add a week or two to the delivery. Ask the dealer if they'll pre-service. I know Josh does it.

Quality Control is one of those rep vs gen issues. If you want a watch pre-serviced, with a warranty etc., you're looking at near cheap-genuine prices.

The differences between a replica and a genuine are not just the brand name, they're things like tax, import duty, dealer mark-up, pre-servicing, cosc certification, waterproof testing and guaranteeing, proper lume, swiss-madeness, warranties, a decent box, pre-oiled strap, trained dealerships, guaranteed parts available to dealers, etc. and with this comes resale value. If many of these things are necessary, then replicas are not for you.

When you investigate how cheaply you can get a genuine 7750-powered Hamilton, for instance, you'll be surprised they can actually get them out so cheaply considering all the factors I mentioned. It's almost enough to convert a man away from reps.

[slojo]

If I knew, I'd not have sent mine off to The Zigmeister.

You're looking at roughly 100 quid for a full 7750 service if you can find anyone.

£100

How much was The Zigmeister?

[Pugwash]

£100

How much was The Zigmeister?

$175 for a 7750 Chrono. There are more expensive: I believe Joe's movement guy charges $275.

[rek001]

Josh's watchsmith charges $150 for asian 7750 pre-service and waterproofing.

Right now I am seriously contemplating ordering Josh's 196 Daylight asian 7750 with this package.

[Pugwash]

Josh's watchsmith charges $150 for asian 7750 pre-service and waterproofing.

Right now I am seriously contemplating ordering Josh's 196 Daylight asian 7750 with this package.

This is a good price. Credit to Josh for offering this service, and now we know how much extra it is.

The problem is that it's nearly the price of a Jones. Imagine you have a choice between a pre-serviced IWC GST Chrono ... and a GST with matching Jones. Plenty of people will take the gamble.

$400+ for a rep is getting to most people's balking point.

[jkerouac]

I've mentioned this in other threads, but will repeat myself here. I took my GST to a local watchmaker after one of the pushers jammed. While he was at it, I also asked him to do an inspection for lubrication and cleanliness. The verdict: he said everything looked fine.

Now, he may or may not have done a really close inspection, and maybe the movement will break down in the next year, or two years, or whatever. But in my opinion I was giving him an opportunity to sell me an overhaul, cleaning, tuneup or whatever you want to call it.

As it stands, if it needs a new movement or repair in a year or two, then I will gladly (OK, not gladly but readily) pay for a repair or replacement. On this watch it will be worth it. For today, though, I'm not going to pay extra to fix a watch that is not broken.

[Pugwash]

Now, he may or may not have done a really close inspection, and maybe the movement will break down in the next year, or two years, or whatever. But in my opinion I was giving him an opportunity to sell me an overhaul, cleaning, tuneup or whatever you want to call it.

The first GST I got felt gritty and the chrono at 12 stopped returning and then died one day. The replacement kept lousy time and felt gritty too. A service may not always be necessary, but when it is, it's better to prevent than repair.

Obviously, you can get lucky, but I want my GST to last 5 years, or until I get a gen for a good price, and in this respect a service is cheaper than an ETA 7750 swap-out.

[Antonio]

I just ordered one of Josh's GTs, with the $150 extra for servicing. He charges around $100-125 for 2836 and other simple movements. So worth it. Fully serviced, calibrated, and waterproofed as best as can be. My first watch from him, a SD, is tested to 5 bars. Runs like a top, keeps excellent time, and looks fantastic.

The 7750s are more complex, and from everything I've read here, servicing beforehand makes sure it's properly lubricated, cleaned, calibrated and will last much longer on average than unserviced. Yes, you're buying a rep, but what good will it be if it lasts less than a year?

What I'm wondering next is where to send my watches for servicing after I've had them for 3 years or so? Have 3 years to ask around here for that, but think it'd be worth it to have proper service if possible. Does anyone know?

[Bignasty]

OK Heres my quick 2 cents regarding 7750 movements!

Asian 7750 or 7750a/b = Bad: No luck with these failure rate for me 100% (3 of 3 failed or had major issues)

New Asian 7750b1 = Good: Knock on wood for saying this but seems to function properly (2 for 2 so far)

ETA 7750 = Absolutely great! Would recommend to anyone!

Now heres a bit more information. Many reps that came with the 7750a/b are being re-released with the new 7750b1 but there are signs this has happened. For instance I received the 7750a/b in my Navitimer Serie Speciale just a few months ago. Last month another member received the 7750b1 in his but it has a new dial. Also to note the 7750a/b movements use the EXACT same hand sizes as the ETA 7750. The new 7750b1 movement hands will not fit on the ETA 7750! The center seconds (chronograph seconds) will not fit on the ETA movement. The ETA pinion is too small. So if you buy this rep and plan on swapping to Swiss you will have to either source a new second hand or have the Asian Pinion installed in the ETA movement!

There it is my 2 cents regarding these movements!

Cheers,

Jon

Edited July 18, 2006 by Bignasty

[RWG Technical]

i

[Bignasty]

Just logged on to check on a few things before my holidays, and noted this post, and thought I would add my comments and thoughts.

The first question is easy to answer, just have a look at this post, it should cover most of what you need answered.

Asian 7750 service info

Now to answer a couple of comments

There is only one way to tell if a movement is clean and oiled, that is to take it apart…unfortunately you can’t tell by looking at it assembled it if it’s oiled correctly or not.

Here is what I typically find in 7750’s after I take them apart, initial inspections don’t show any of this, most comes out in the ultrasonic cleaner…

I would venture to say I have serviced more Asian 7750’s than anyone else here…and of the dozens and dozens I have seen, not 1 (One) has been clean or oiled, and the balance cap jewels on everyone were dry. For reference balance cap jewels are the pivot points for the balance, on a 7750 (older models) these pivots spin 21,600 turns an hour, 518,400 turns a day, and 189,216,000 turns per year – with no oil…you do the math… Would you run your new car without oil…

If the prices quoted here for a service on a chronograph seems high, your not informed. As for “joe’s” watch repair fellow, from what I am told, not one 7750 has left the shop yet, it’s going on a year’s wait for some members with 7750’s in for service...

Google “Watch Repair Prices”, you will see minimum fees of $450 - $750 and up and wait times of months… Make sure you are looking at a real service, not a “Swish and Dip” where you immerse the whole movement in a cleaning solution without disassembling it. If your quoted a “cheap” price for a chrono service, remember you get what you pay for…cheap is cheap…

Keep in mind that a dry, not oiled watch, will fail, it’s only a matter of time. It will fail due to worn out parts, and there are no replacement parts for Asian movements – none – even Miyota parts are not available…as they say you can pay me now, or pay me later (I don’t mean me personally, you get my point). Just as it’s cheaper to change the oil in your car on a regular basis than overhaul the engine, it’s cheaper to service your watch, than to service and have to replace parts (assuming you have the parts).

Problem with reps, is that your comparing the price of the watch, to the cost of the service…which is an unfair comparison. A 7750 is a 7750 - no matter who makes it, and truth be known, it’s much more time consuming to service a Asian 7750, than it is to service a ETA 7750…

So back to the first question, why are they not serviced? Because it would cost too much to have it done.

Even ETA Swiss factory movements are not well oiled, if at all… Assembling a movement can be done by a machine, oiling is more of a fine art, 6 oils and greases are needed on a typical watch, in varying amounts, and although the machine does a fair job, the first time any watch is correctly oiled, is the first time it leaves the hands of a watchmaker’s bench after servicing…

It all comes down to a personal choice. Why they are not oiled is a given, what you do about it, is a choice only you can make. But please make sure your doing so from an informed position. Servicing a chrono movement takes skill and time, and is not cheap – after you do the Google search on watch repair prices, you’ll have a better appreciation of the going rate…

Hope everyone is having a great summer.

RG

OH MY GOD! The Zigmeister's posted! Yeppie!

Hope this is a sign of more to come!

Cheers and enjoy your time off!

Jon

[rek001]

Hey The Zigmeister, it's great to have you checking in again - your amazing knowledge and common sense have been sorely missed around here.

[Pugwash]

Problem with reps, is that your comparing the price of the watch, to the cost of the service…which is an unfair comparison. A 7750 is a 7750 - no matter who makes it, and truth be known, it’s much more time consuming to service a Asian 7750, than it is to service a ETA 7750…

Speaking of ... did my GST arrive ok? Feel free to take pics of it when it's opened up, as it's a very highly photographed watch already ... it's used to having cameras pointed at it.

[robertk]

Great post The Zigmeister. I have about 20 or so of these movements. never serviced them. Just wear em. I know some will finally break, but in two years everything works. I need to keep "knocking on wood". I figure these reps are so cheap, that when I do have to service them it's still a bargain.

BTW, at least half are chrono's, and I use em.

[RWG Technical]

Speaking of ... did my GST arrive ok? Feel free to take pics of it when it's opened up, as it's a very highly photographed watch already ... it's used to having cameras pointed at it.

[Pugwash]

Not yet, I will send an email the minute it arrives...maybe today when I get home...

As long as it doesn't arrive too late, as that would make me cry like a schoolgirl whose teddy bear got stolen.

[RWG Technical]

Great post Ziggy. I have about 20 or so of these movements. never serviced them. Just wear em. I know some will finally break, but in two years everything works. I need to keep "knocking on wood". I figure these reps are so cheap, that when I do have to service them it's still a bargain.

BTW, at least half are chrono's, and I use em.

That is excellent reliability, poor kruzer00 has had no luck with 7750's - they all fail...maybe it's his magnetic personality.

It's a personal choice, there is no right or wrong answer when the "Servicing" question is asked. If asked "Why" then it's nice to know what is normally found during the teardown of these movements. For the record, the dirt issue has been much improved during the past 8 months, I find only small fillings, no big chunks anymore...

I agree that it's a bargain overall, and on some models, it's better to replace the asian 7750 with a swiss one. I have done that modification to a number of Breitlings with the real 7750 layout (12,9, and 6 subdials). Again it's a choice, some elect to have the Asian serviced, some buy a new ETA 7750, and have me replace it...whatever turns your crank...in the end we all get to wear and enjoy our watches and that is what is really important.

[RWG Technical]

As long as it doesn't arrive too late, as that would make me cry like a schoolgirl whose teddy bear got stolen.

[dabom]

Hi The Zigmeister, I'm wondering if my PMs or emails have been getting through to you. (I hope I haven't upset you or anything). Do you mind if you PM me? Thanks!

[watcher71]

I have been lucky so far too. (knock on wood). But if/when they finally break, I am going to transplant route and buying a swiss 7750, which makes more sense to me than paying almost the price of a swiss 7750 movement to service the asian.