A Warning To All Our Dealers

[Bignasty]

what we are trying to say, sam, is that, if you really do have trouble getting hold of Narikka, then air it here, before you go to paypal. it does not matter whether you actually file the claim or not, by getting paypal involved, you get narikka in trouble, which in turn, paypal can audit his account, so on, so forth. it is not cool. you could've even post in dealer review as an inquiry, or post in general discussion section, instead of going to paypal to have them "HELP" you deal with Narikka. do you now get it perhaps? I really hope you did, because what you did, whether it's for $5, or for $500, is not cool either way. Please straighten this out. Thank you.

Well said!

Sam you raised a "red flag" on a dealer's account. Regardless of the dollar amount or the time frame you jumped the gun! It would be 10x better to air out dirty laundry with a dealer on these forums than to file any type of claim/dispute with Paypal. What you did is similar to running to the cops to tell them that your crack dealer shorted you a rock and took your money!

Next time, if another dealer gives you one, I would use more restraint when going to the authorities!

Cheers,

Jon

Edit to add: What you also need to consider is by doing this you will make other dealers skeptical about using Paypal as many of our dealers have already had their share of issues with them. Paypal is the easiest and most convenient way to purchase products in our hobby.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Bignasty

[bkatbamna]

No its "Blame Canada! Blame Canada!!!""

LOL

I like Bomb Canada better.

[sevomd]

Well said!

Sam you raised a "red flag" on a dealer's account. Regardless of the dollar amount or the time frame you jumped the gun! It would be 10x better to air out dirty laundry with a dealer on these forums than to file any type of claim/dispute with Paypal. What you did is similar to running to the cops to tell them that your crack dealer shorted you a rock and took your money!

Next time, if another dealer gives you one, I would use more restraint when going to the authorities!

Cheers,

Jon

Don't really think there's gonna be a next time for this guy from the dealers here.

Eddy

[Watchmeister]

Don't even care if Reg never responded. If you buy through folks on this forum have the decency to ask for help through the forum before escalating it into a public incident.

On the blacklist idea, I had always assumed dealers did that outside the forum anyhow. It is a great idea though as it lets private sellers beware and it allows the blacklisted person to defend themselves as well. Finally, if I were in a dealer's shoes I would be loathe to take paypal from anyone other than repeat buyers.

[Sam268]

I will cancel it paypal.. because it seems most of you find him so trust worthy and protect him.

I don't mind loosing the 5 bucks if he doesn't pay. But if you guys all agree taking this up between me and him 1 on 1 and with paypal is more harmful then bring it up on the board first and maybe complain and have a chance to ruin his reputation. Then I am fine with that.

I never wanted hurt this dealer so that is why I rather take it up one and one rather then post some [censored] about not receiving my goods and no response and I am sure he might loose potiental buyers.

but the dealer is also wrong lashing out at me in public when I was dealing with him one and one and like some of you said, is only at the early stage and he made a big fuss on the board.

I am not a newbie here and I have purchase many watches from other dealers, I thought what I did was right in making sure our dealers will keep up with the customer service that all buyers should receive equally and no one loose their money. big or small amount.

[Bignasty]

I never wanted hurt this dealer so that is why I rather take it up one and one rather then post some [censored] about not receiving my goods and no response and I am sure he might loose potiental buyers.

At least when you post here you can go back and delete the thread or edit the thread accordingly. With Paypal, once the red flag is raised no matter what you do they might still further investigate the sellers actions.

I've had a "red flag" raised on me and they ask a lot of questions. You have to provide proof of identity. You have to provide A LOT of personal information. They can freeze all the funds in your accounts. They can reverse band transfers/withdrawels. They can require proof of inventory, which is difficult to do when you deal in contraband!

Trust me reporting anything to Paypal in this hobby is just BAD BUSINESS! Next time air it out here and you can undo your actions if the dealer makes the situation right! Which from my experience with our dealers they ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT if you aren't asking for something that is unreasonable!

Cheers,

Jon

[Cucumber_Jones]

I like Bomb Canada better.

STFU - dont take this topic there.

[Sam268]

I have cancelled the dispute on Paypal.

I understand where you guys are coming from and it might hurt all your future sales with this seller so I cancelled it.

But then again, would you guys buy small items and small amount from this dealer? I have no intention to hurt him and I was the victim of not getting my item, response, and loose a few bucks.

I did what I thought was right to take action one on one to not hurt his reputation and post some [censored] about him on dealer's review. I could of done that instead of putting a dispute, would that been better for the dealer?

Now he just attacked me in the public with out even trying to settle this with me one on one. is at an early stage and is no like we can't com to a solution. why does he have to hurt his customers?

What kind of Customer service am I getting from this dealer? I have never had a problem with any other dealers here on the board.

how can a seller treat a customer like that, I am sure he wouldn't of said the same thing if it was 500 dollars so this conclude there is a big chance to take when buying something small and low value from a dealer.

In my own opinion, this is a very unprofessional seller on the transaction between me and him only.

As some of you might only read and not reply, you would agree he actually might of hurt his own reputation and sales by attacking in public when I try to deal with him one on one.

Buyers- do you feel confortable buying low value item from this seller?

just think about it.. I am out and won't support this particular seller anymore. doesn't mean he is a bad seller as I know he has come though to many others but for me. How he treated me as a customer isn't right. Customer service is 0- none towards me. maybe it could be different for you.

[Cucumber_Jones]

I am not a newbie here and I have purchase many watches from other dealers, I thought what I did was right in making sure our dealers will keep up with the customer service that all buyers should receive equally and no one loose their money. big or small amount.

I am sure you had good intentions - however good intentions can go bad. This was one step from the worst thing you could have done. If you did not want to take it to the boards you should have contacted one of the admin at one of the forums where you are a member and asked for help.

What you chose to do could have hurt us all. - I am sure you did not intend to do that though.

[cosmosblau]

.....but the dealer is also wrong lashing out at me in public when I was dealing with him one and one and like some of you said, is only at the early stage and he made a big fuss on the board.

I am not a newbie here and I have purchase many watches from other dealers, I thought what I did was right in making sure our dealers will keep up with the customer service that all buyers should receive equally and no one loose their money. big or small amount.

Sam:

Please understand that buying and selling reps is illegal. What you did was the equivalent of turning in your Drug Dealer because you didn't get your cocaine you ordered. You aren't just turning the dealer in, you are turning YOURSELF in, as well as all of us for that matter.

If you notice, there are many, many people who are very, very angry at you. Perhaps it is time to consider what they are saying, despite what you think.

[Sam268]

Hi Jon, you see, I didn't know paypal would hurt the dealer this way as you mention, I thought I would hurt him more if I post something on here and ruin his potenial sales and reputation.

If I knew about how the red flag of paypal. I would of tried something else.

BUT IN ALL , I had no intention to hurt this seller which many of you think I did. If I was to hurt him,

I would was file a claim, attack and warn others I am not getting my goods from this dealer, don't buy from him, [censored] like that which I wouldn't do and would not do.

I guess in this forum, Seller's is always right and Buyers should be prepare to be attack and there is always risk of lossing your money.

WHY No buyer support or protection when 99% of you are buyers???????????

At least when you post here you can go back and delete the thread or edit the thread accordingly. With Paypal, once the red flag is raised no matter what you do they might still further investigate the sellers actions.

I've had a "red flag" raised on me and they ask a lot of questions. You have to provide proof of identity. You have to provide A LOT of personal information. They can freeze all the funds in your accounts. They can reverse band transfers/withdrawels. They can require proof of inventory, which is difficult to do when you deal in contraband!

Trust me reporting anything to Paypal in this hobby is just BAD BUSINESS! Next time air it out here and you can undo your actions if the dealer makes the situation right! Which from my experience with our dealers they ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT if you aren't asking for something that is unreasonable!

Cheers,

Jon

[Sam268]

I understand it all now that I have unintentionally hurt alot of you with your future sales with the seller.

I am sorry to you all..

one thing I did do is made some of you aware what kind of customer service and how this dealer treats one of his customers.

I am sure other dealers which I deal with before wouldn't attack me this way if I did the same thing to them.

Once again, sorry to all Narkiaa fans.

[trustywatchguy]

SAM268,

Be VERY GLAD you are here and able to save your money buying things cheap here and from TRUSTED Dealers. Try getting the replicas from elsewhere and probably you will not get anything...no goods and money lost too.

SELLERS like us have our own risk too...

Rest my case.

[dosanim]

Hi Jon, you see, I didn't know paypal would hurt the dealer this way as you mention, I thought I would hurt him more if I post something on here and ruin his potenial sales and reputation.

If I knew about how the red flag of paypal. I would of tried something else.

BUT IN ALL , I had no intention to hurt this seller which many of you think I did. If I was to hurt him,

I would was file a claim, attack and warn others I am not getting my goods from this dealer, don't buy from him, [censored] like that which I wouldn't do and would not do.

I guess in this forum, Seller's is always right and Buyers should be prepare to be attack and there is always risk of lossing your money.

WHY No buyer support or protection when 99% of you are buyers???????????

It's not really true. Most members remember Rolexaward incident @ old RWG.

I think it was how you approached issue with paypal. Recently, there have been number of related issues with paypal claims whichg would jeorpadize forum and sellers etc.

I understand your point but majority of members are coming from differnt angle, so please understand.

Just my interpretation of this thread.

[Steve G]

I think Sam, what you did was act like a complete tool. First off your potential loss didn't justify pulling a "fire alarm". It was $5 a lottery ticket. I understand your principal, but there are more practical ways to go about it. This forum can be and has been used as a sounding board. Experienced members could have guided you as to how to proceed. You could have called out the dealer, PM'd him something. Even if the loss was greater you have to consider the arena we are playing in. My first transaction here I was shaking as I didn't know what to expect, but I was lucky it was through a dealer here and not some web page I almost ordered from.

Think Sam think..that's all. For some of the members here paypal is a nice convience and not all dealers use it (I wonder why). I personally don't want to use WU, moneybookers etc. Let's try not to drive away all the dealers from using paypal. It isn't perfect, but as long as some donkey doesn't do something stupid and draw massive attention no one get's hurt.

Just my two cents

Edited July 20, 2006 by Steve G

[Sam268]

Thanks for all your great tips, If I do have another problem in the future, I will post to the board first and I hope all of you would be as responsive in helping me like today, 4 pages of post in one day. haha.

I also learned some dealers are just a little more professional then others.

Andrew, thanks for supplying me with good watches and great customer service though out the year.

I have already received that last watch I order from you.

I think Sam, what you did was act like a complete tool. First off your potential loss didn't justify pulling a "fire alarm". It was $5 a lottery ticket. I understand your principal, but there are more practical ways to go about it. This forum can be and has been used as a sounding board. Experienced members could have guided you as to how to proceed. You could have called out the dealer, PM'd him something. Even if the loss was greater you have to consider the arena we are playing in. My first transaction here I was shaking as I didn't know what to expect, but I was lucky it was through a dealer here and not some web page I almost ordered from.

Think Sam think..that's all. For some of the members here paypal is a nice convience and not all dealers use it (I wonder why). I personally don't want to use WU, moneybookers etc. Let's try not to drive away all the dealers from using paypal. It isn't perfect, but as long as some donkey doesn't do something stupid and draw massive attention no one get's hurt.

Just my two cents

[TwoTone]

has to be a 2 way street....!

You are 100% correct… Unfortunately Neil, that’s the part that the phukin noobs don’t get…

TT

[rocket754]

All over just 5 bucks and non Amazon.com customer service......

Why are these stories popping up more and more nowdays????

There has to be a better way. I guess this will eventually push dealers to only accept bank transfers

[watcher71]

Sam...point is, we are a community and we should keep our dirty laundry in house...end of story. It's not the money, or the lack of communication that should matter. As everyone else has said, paypal disputes impact the dealer and then other dealers and then the entire community.

Never paypal any amount of moeny that you are not prepared to lose! That is an unfortunate part of the game we all play. If you get hosed or think you are getting hosed...bring it to the community -- not paypal!

(@neil...kisses sweetie )

[ehtolcad]

@sam

i'm willing to bet that you'll end up with 2 of the sets (orig and replacement) and reg will end up with this red flag from paypal. that does not seem like a fair trade-off whether we're talking 10 bucks or 1,000. another point to be very careful with is to insinuate for one moment that reg is anything but completely professional, because it is just not true. what you did was extremely short-sighted and it is surely unfortunate that things have unfolded as they have. so what - he didn't return emails as quickly as you wanted him to...other dealers may have NEVER responded to emails after payment was sent. keep that in mind if you can find a dealer that will do business with you.

when you talk about people standing up for 'this dealer' it's not because anyone is trying to protect anyone else. it's not because anyone is trying to kiss up to a particular dealer. it's because reg is as trustworthy as they come. when some talk about a dealer-customer relationship, it's not b.s. at all. our dealers have developed solid, proven track records with every deal they have done with members of these boards. when you see so many people posting in unison, it's no conspiracy, it's honest responses.

so here's where i'll put my money where my mouth is: i just got a link pin tool from none other than narikaa himself. if he does indeed fail you, i will send you mine free of charge. that's what watcher is talking about when he speaks of community. at this point, i'm sure that few would be looking out for you, but i'll be damned if reg's reputation suffers due to this situation. i am certain that even though you have created some waves for him with paypal, he'll still come through for you like he has on countless other occasions for other members and for me.

[Kenneth]

Sam268 should be banned plain and simple. He knows what he is buying and where he is buying it from. I have heard enough about idiots like Sam 268 and the cowardly acts they commit which eventually screw up paypal ordering for everyone. I am also a Canuck and if I had the computer savy to be able to track you down I would deliver you a personal ass kicking that you would be free to dispute all you want.

Coward with no balls what so ever.

Try being a man once in a while.

You're not ordering from Sears here buddy.

[Guest TTK]

Tunnel vision, Neil. Not all watch sales go through our lovely dealers.

Don't completely understand your point here Clive......but I'll respond anyway....!

I don't care if all the sales don't go thru' our dealers.....I'm only concerned with the sales that do.......!

I asked Admin to create a Dealer Area where we dealers can gather and pass information along........information that will assist dealers in making decisions about who to deal with and who not to deal with......just the same as you buyers can do in your dealer review area....the only difference is that members won't have access to it....so can't comment on topics in it.......!

As for this latest fiasco with Sam Non Wise Gangee......I know Reg personally and I'd take his word to the bank before anyone.......this member WILL receive his goods.....he over-reacted to a potential loss of 5 GBP........raising the red flag is never good at Paypal........I know.......a customer / member here did the same with me.....despite the fact that I had sent him 2x items....and communictaed with him.....I chose to check with the Post Office whether it had been received or not......that took time ....the customer elected to file a PP issue and as a result......my Paypal account was closed......I won't deal with him again.......AND THAT MEMBER IS NOW LISTED IN OUR AREA AS A MEMBER OF QUESTIONABLE INTENT.......ALL DEALERS CAN SEE ALL HIS INFORMATION.....MEMBER NAME.....E-MAIL ADDRESS......SHIPPING ADDRESS......all the info they need to decide whether to deal with him........that's what is going to happen from now on.......just to let you know......!

[Quarks]

I like Bomb Canada better.

Not funny.

[Quarks]

I guess in this forum, Seller's is always right and Buyers should be prepare to be attack and there is always risk of lossing your money.

WHY No buyer support or protection when 99% of you are buyers???????????

Dude. You want support, protection, customer service, go to your AD.

This has been mention countless of times. You are dealing with ILLEGAL items, what more do you want for customer service? Sometimes pple on here just that things for granted. This is not a bloody local AD store where you can walk into with your big balls hanging btwn your legs. Dealers here don't open doors for you, neither will they flatter you with stupid ass compliments, sit you down, pour you a warm cup of tea and have empty conversations with you, in hopes that you will buy something from them.

What you did was cowardly, for a measly 5 euros, you filed for a paypal claim.

[Pugwash]

Buyers- do you feel confortable buying low value item from this seller?

Nakiraa is the only dealer with zero complaints against him. Zero Complaints, think about it. He's possibly the most trusted and generous dealer on the forums, and if you'd have asked, you'd have been told this in no uncertain terms.

Check Dealer Reviews and you'll see how trusted this guy is. He's the sort of guy that will send you stuff for free, and he takes part in the discussions here. You simply don't get more trustworthy.