Poor quality

[sander]

Is it just me or is the quality of the products really terrible lately.

I

[XWORD]

Almost makes you want to buy a gen instead and forgo having numerous watches, sounds like less headaches but less watches as well. Damn always a tradeoff.

[Corgi]

This is why I buy all of my watches from Narikaa now... guaranteed that this craziness won't happen because he QC each one before even buying them...

[DemonSlayer]

Alas, these are the problems one may face when ordering reps. One thing I've learnt about the rep game, is don't have such high expectations. We have to recognise how these are being traded, I would say it's very much like any other illegal commodity such as heroin or cocaine, the majority of dealers are just concerned with clearing large numbers of these watches. The only way most of them are able to do this efficiently is by hiring others to do the sending for them, forget about QC, with this sort of distribution set-up it isn't going to happen. This isn't like buying watches from your local AD or Walmart, backed by any guarantees or waranties.

I must say I do like the fact that some dealers are taking QC so seriously, as if they are the ones who the owners of this watch, and will only ship what they themselves would be happy with. EuroTimez is one that comes to mind, Narikaa, from reading his reviews, seems like a dealer who takes pride in his QC and high level of customer service.

I have been fortunate in that I have experienced little problems regarding QC issues with the reps I have bought, I've been lucky. However when the sh!t hits the fan, its only your dealer or in some cases, a reliable watchsmith who can fix things for you.

[AMK000]

Come on guys this a serious issue.

The complete absence of any QC and the dropshipping practice are causing all these.

No matter what the defenders of the rep market say , as a std average a 40% to 50% (and that's a five years average) of what you get it is either bad or it will die soon after (and not many watchsmiths around to get them fixed).

The more reps you buy the more the chances to get a bad rep.

What happens to sanders happened also to me (...By-Tor was saying that I was complaining too much ).

Almost $2,000 lost here and there. Very frustrating.

My solution and answer to it:

- Be very selective on the reps you buy.

- Observe the model and comments from other members regarding the specific watch and if bad, hold on.

- Choose dealers that do QC (Narikaa, Precious, EuroT, etc...)

- Avoid complicated or heavily modified movements

- Start buying reps from trade with other members.

- Hold on on 3 reps and buy instead a gen (Oris , hamilton, etc...). Many nice gen watches around at the $800 to $1000 price range

Five to three years a go , I was buying 4 to 5 reps a year. Now I buying one or max two and one gen.

The rep watches hobby is a very very expensive hobby. Also needs time, patience and some basic watch skills.

[bertieng]

Buying reps nowadays is getting more and more frustrating. It is no longer like in the old days when I got the watches from dealer like EL. All those old pieces were alomst sure 100% trouble free. The 183, 172, 027. 089 that I got 3-5 years ago are all still running like power horses today.

But for the reps that were bought in the last 2 years they always came with this and that problems, big or small. Some have to go back for replacement. Date wheel not aligned, scratched dial, dents on the case, stripped screws, hands scratched......... just a few to name. It is absolutely nuts how disappointed you are when you opened the boxed and found all these shits on your newly acquired watch. I know a rep is a rep, but it doesn't mean we deserve for this kind of quality for an average of 300-500 bucks product. You can buy a Cartier/Tiffany ring for 500 buks already.

A lot of time is needed to fix all these small/big problems until I can wear them. Sometimes even have to get the whole watch dissembled and wait for spare parts to fix the defects. Sometimes my wife just complained what the hell I am doing spending all the time in fixing these watches. "Why you have to tear down a newly bought watch and fiddling it around in pieces before you can wear it!?" "Isn't it supposed you paid th emony and have the watch put onto your wrist straight away?!"

Honestly I really do not have much expectation on reps anymore. I always got myself prepared for fixing it up whenever I ordered a new piece. Can't believe how much money I have spent already on all the Swiss made watch tools for doing the job. May be one day if I got fired I can become a watchsmith.

[RobbieG]

Fedex and customs? What dealer is using Fedex. It is common knowledge (or should be) with all Chinese rep dealers that Fedex are the worst customs Nazi's around and they have a very high seize rate. I thought everyone was pretty much using their international postal services by now?

In any case, sorry to hear of you problems and yes, although I have no reps at the moment I had noticed in teh last year a lot more little nitty problems coming up with watches that I just wasn't willing to live with. In my case I just traded them off to people who could live with the issues, but I feel for you. They better get it right or they will lose more business before it is over. Especially now that gen makers are clammoring for new business with lower prices.

[XWORD]

Ditto to that RobbieG

[qualitime]

Sander,

Order your watches at PT.

No custom %^%#.

The best QC sofar.

Q.

[XWORD]

Guaranteed?

[siesta181]

Sander,

Sorry to hear all your problem but there's very little that we can do once we send the money across. Due to the nature of the product, we have no legal recourse should any problem arise. What we can do is complain and inform others.

I have been faithfully using one dealer eversince I got into this hobby and I believe having a relationship with the dealer is important. Having the right expectation level is also important. These things are priced so for a reason.

That's what these forums are so. To learn from other members' experiences and mistakes. The feedback and trade review are there for such a purpose. Stay away from the bad dealers. They are in the business for money. Let them know of what we feel about them with our wallets. No point complaining abt em only to run back to them for our reps.

My 2 cents

Cheers

Siesta181

[qualitime]

Guaranteed?

In our home country: Yes.

[XWORD]

In our home country: Yes.

Lucky. I'm envious, don't know of anyone in Canada that can guarantee that service, do you?

[Mickey Padge]

Don't buy your watches from drop shippers?

I also suggest PreciousTime, one of the best dealers we have

[XWORD]

I can appreciate the don't buy from dropshippers, but how do you side step Customs. That's the tough one.

[Mickey Padge]

I can appreciate the don't buy from dropshippers, but how do you side step Customs. That's the tough one.

Never use Fedex, EVER!

If you are in mainland Europe, always buy from an EU based dealer, pretty simple

[BreatheDeep]

Don't buy your watches from drop shippers?

I also suggest PreciousTime, one of the best dealers we have

I second that of all the watches bought from PT had only one fault and they went out of there way to sort it for me.

All the watches have had no cosmetic or damage when received.

PT is number one in the eu!!

[XWORD]

Guess I'll just have to move to Europe.

[jeff g]

QC is non existent from drop shippers. Period.

I too have experienced major problems over the last 5 years of collecting reps.

Things have changed. Although I have reps purchased from EL that continue to run without major problems, many of those older TW

models had many problems like mis aligned bezels or indices. Is it worth the hassle to try and send them back to a dealer that has never even seen the watch, only to receive another, with a different problem?

In truth much of the most recent product is actually better than those pieces available 5 years ago. But ordering from the typical drop shipper is quite simply a crap shoot.

Dealers that actually handle product prior to shipping to you, is the only way to go. However even then there is no guarantee that the movement won't crap out in short order.

The last three reps that I have ordered, have all gone to The Zigmeister for servicing. That obviously drives the price up dramatically. If you are interested in having a watch that will last for years, rather than months, then that is the price that must be paid. Even 21j Asian movements, much less eta's can be assured of operating for years when properly serviced.

Most of the current super reps, that, cost 400.00 to 1000.00, still require servicing to insure longevity.

All that being said..my MBK Nautilus that cost 450.00, plus servicing at 200.00, and looks and wears as nicely as the gen selling for 20,000.00, is well worth the cost. You get what you pay for.

Pick your dealer, THEN pick your watch.

[cht]

QC sounds like a good way to go to avoid drop shipped problems.

Only problem is, there are several others besides me who ordered from a qc'ing collector and received sub standard quality reps.

I have only ordered one rep, and I ordered it from one of the few collectors on here who claims high qc standards, therefore product takes longer and costs more.

Mine arrived after 2 1/2 weeks with glue around the pearl, scratched bezel, a crooked dial, (and what's looking like a crooked bezel as well) and a crown that is a pain to screw down.

So much for the QC theory.

I agree, the poor quality is a huge deterrent for the rep business.

I don't think I'll ever buy another one, and have only bought 1!

What attracted me to watches was the time and precision that went into making them.

The rep I have says "I don't care about quality, I just want to make $$$."

And quite frankly, I don't want that kind of crap on my wrist.

I would rather spend my +$300 on a nice seiko automatic in the future.

Edited November 24, 2008 by cht

[XWORD]

Still waiting for my first rep stuck in customs 13 days might never see it, but if quality is bad as you say , then I would agree and only purchase gen watch.. even 1 gen has to be more satisfying than 10 poor quality reps. But again I'm not speaking from experience as no reps yet. Might change my opinion after seeing a "good" rep. Fingers crossed.