What Am I Missing?

[archibald]

I hope nobody takes this post the wrong way, particularly MBW afficonados. No gratutitous bashing of MBW here--I'm just confused. I have to buy a new sub to replace the one my old man begged from me the last time he visited (a gorgeous TW best with joe's "works" package I bought from another member). Natch, the replacement is going to be either EL's "New Submariner" or an MBW.

The MBW is $165 more than EL's, which I'd be perfectly happy to plunk down if I thought I was getting $165 worth of added accuracy, but I just don't see it. In fact, the marker @ 12 on the MBW looks seriously flawed, the rehaut looks no thicker, the "m's" don't line up, and the guards are not as good. Is there a weight, case-size, hand,bracelet, bezel, etc. issue I'm missing? Is the watch in the pics some outdated and/or grade "B" MBW?

If the latest MBW's do take OEM parts like the old one, that's a huge plus, because I have an OEM bezel which I could not get to fit the old TW. But otherwise it seems to me the "mass market" reps have passed MBW by and a little catch-up is needed in Maria Land.

My suggestion would be to combine the best parts of King's new CN sub w/ the best features of EL's...Then MBW would be on top again.

A quck glance: The MBW is on the left.

[ubiquitous]

My suggestion would be to combine the best parts of King's new CN sub w/ the best features of EL's...Then MBW would be on top again.

J-

I did something similar here...

Link.

Best,

Randy

[By-Tor]

A quck glance: The MBW is on top.

They both look very fake. Does this help?

Seriously: That MBW watch has really bad guards, dial and winding crown. Wasn't the one that Luckyyy was selling much better? Can't remember anymore...

Edit: Now I realized it. Isn't that the old "TW Classic" Sub? Davey had this one. We can call it whatever we want though (and pay a few hundred extra for a bad, outdated rep): MBW or BMW...

Edited July 24, 2006 by By-Tor

[archibald]

They both look very fake. Does this help?

Not particularly. I think lucky's may have had the guards done, but I remember the dial about the same....LOL, they all do look the same after staring at them for 30 min anyway!

@ ubi:

Excellent work on the franken! A couple Q's: Would you have had to trim the insert on an MBW? Do you think my local smith (talented but no The Zigmeister) could get the OEM bezel to fit EL's sub, or is that a non-starter becuse of the case?

If the OEM bezel fits it's a no brainer--throw it on the EL along w/ an OEM crown and tube, have the guards done, and that's it, probably with enough left over to try to source King's dial.

[ubiquitous]

I'm almost certain that I'd have to trim the insert on an MBW. It's not a hard job to do... Hell, if I could do it, it can't be difficult Just takes some time, patience, and a steady hand...

Send me a PM... We can discuss a little...

[By-Tor]

I posted this picture of genuine Submariner's crown guards and winding crown. This is reference material for the rep factories (I hope they're watching!!!) They can look at this pic long and hard and perhaps in couple of years come up with a version that looks even remotely like the genuine (at least in the dark).

[kanerich]

I've never really understood the "modern" MBW thing, ever since Luckyyy started selling them. It was never made clear to me what they had over regular Chinese subs, and I think people were afraid to call him out because he was easy to [censored] off and his classic MBW's at least were the real deal. He also sold the "cheap modern" MBW as I recall for around $100 with an Asian miyota movement! What was that crap? I could never tell whether he just simply called everything he sold MBW or not.

[TiberiousT]

Isn't the MBW 200M water resistant while the others are 30-50M?

That is a big deal to alot of people.

Rain and Splash or a real divers watch?

Or is that complete BS?

[TJGladeRaider]

Isn't the MBW 200M water resistant while the others are 30-50M?

That is a big deal to alot of people.

Rain and Splash or a real divers watch?

Or is that complete BS?

Complete BS - I have tested the Subs/SDs from EL and Joshua 9in a pressure tester and they all test to 132 feet. My MBW Vintage isn't waterproof at all

Bill

[Bazz]

As far as the mbw modern subs go I would say save the money and go with EL(better crown, crown guards and dial).... the vintage models are a different story (the gen insert will also need to be trimmed to go on the mbw modern)

[TiberiousT]

As far as the mbw modern subs go I would say save the money and go with EL(better crown, crown guards and dial).... the vintage models are a different story (the gen insert will also need to be trimmed to go on the mbw modern)

EL's lv has a bolded "m" in 300m and all the second markers are the same width.

Andrew's and Josh's lv have a thick second marker at every 5sec/hr interval without the bold "m".

Even for a rep newbie like me that is a glaring mistake. I can spot that a billion times easier than "rehaut"

[hk45ca]

EL's lv has a bolded "m" in 300m and all the second markers are the same width.

Andrew's and Josh's lv have a thick second marker at every 5sec/hr interval without the bold "m".

Even for a rep newbie like me that is a glaring mistake. I can spot that a billion times easier than "rehaut"

but not while it is moving around on somebodys arm. lol

[Bazz]

EL's lv has a bolded "m" in 300m and all the second markers are the same width.

Andrew's and Josh's lv have a thick second marker at every 5sec/hr interval without the bold "m".

Even for a rep newbie like me that is a glaring mistake. I can spot that a billion times easier than "rehaut"

Yep all models have differing pos and negs but out of the two archibald asked about I would say ELs is better value. I bought a LV from maria about two years ago and ended up changing pretty much everything bar the case.

[archibald]

EL's lv has a bolded "m" in 300m and all the second markers are the same width.

Andrew's and Josh's lv have a thick second marker at every 5sec/hr interval without the bold "m".

Even for a rep newbie like me that is a glaring mistake. I can spot that a billion times easier than "rehaut"

King's looks like it may have both--but it's hard to tell about the M in her pics. Also, no worries if you accidentally drop hers into a glass of water.

Anyway, every rep you ever buy will have at least one intentional flaw (choose your theory about why). If it's not on the dial, they'll screw up something on the case, or vice versa. That's why modding is 51% of the fun...

[By-Tor]

I think these pictures tell it all. First pic was posted by my friend Davey way over a year ago.

On the left: CN case. On the right: "TW Best" case.

Below: Genuine Submariner.

Besides the "rehaut depth" just notice how the inner ring is very metallic and smooth when it meets the crystal (in both TW version and genuine). In all CN versions the rehaut looks like it's made of two different parts... you know, where the crystal merges with the case. It's not smooth and straight and the inner ring looks "matte". It looks almost like there's a white seal ring, made of plastic (which is just the crystal edge). This is the easiest "fake spotter" in all Submariner reps.

They have improved the Sub in many ways in last 15 months but the old TW version (and the new MBW version that Luckyyy was selling) are still the only ones where the crystal/case looks almost correct. Too bad the old "TW best" (that apparently George is selling too, and calling it "MBW") has awful dial, horrible crown guards and "jumbo" crown which completely ruin the watch. Don't waste your money on the outdated rep. If I had to choose I'd still take the EL version any day over it.

Hope this helps.

Edited July 24, 2006 by By-Tor

[Pugwash]

He also sold the "cheap modern" MBW as I recall for around $100 with an Asian miyota movement! What was that crap? I could never tell whether he just simply called everything he sold MBW or not.

He simply called everything he sold MBW. The $100 sub is the same as all the dealers do and it's remarkably good for the money. I got mine from TTK and it's still going strong.

[hk45ca]

I think these pictures tell it all. First pic was posted by my friend Davey way over a year ago.

On the left: CN case. On the right: "TW Best" case.

Below: Genuine Submariner.

Besides the "rehaut depth" just notice how the inner ring is very metallic and smooth when it meets the crystal (in both TW version and genuine). In all CN versions the rehaut looks like it's made of two different parts... you know, where the crystal merges with the case. It's not smooth and straight and the inner ring looks "matte". It looks almost like there's a white seal ring, made of plastic (which is just the crystal edge). This is the easiest "fake spotter" in all Submariner reps.

They have improved the Sub in many ways in last 15 months but the old TW version (and the new MBW version that Luckyyy was selling) are still the only ones where the crystal/case looks almost correct. Too bad the old "TW best" (that apparently George is selling too, and calling it "MBW") has awful dial, horrible crown guards and "jumbo" crown which completely ruin the watch. Don't waste your money on the outdated rep. If I had to choose I'd still take the EL version any day over it.

Hope this helps.

if you want to mod a watch you should always start with el's tw best. if you don't want to do any mods then yes you should buy the cn version.

[sonystyle]

Hi By-Tor,

Ive order an EddieLee TW Classic with the Lug Holes, do you think it is nice watch ? - just asking because I havent received it yet.

Because you wrote:

Too bad the old "TW best" (that apparently George is selling too, and calling it "MBW") has awful dial, horrible crown guards and "jumbo" crown which completely ruin the watch. Don't waste your money on the outdated rep.

Then you wrote

If I had to choose I'd still take the EL version any day over it.

So if you could clarfiy Id appreciate it...

Many Thankts.

I think these pictures tell it all. First pic was posted by my friend Davey way over a year ago.

On the left: CN case. On the right: "TW Best" case.

Below: Genuine Submariner.

Besides the "rehaut depth" just notice how the inner ring is very metallic and smooth when it meets the crystal (in both TW version and genuine). In all CN versions the rehaut looks like it's made of two different parts... you know, where the crystal merges with the case. It's not smooth and straight and the inner ring looks "matte". It looks almost like there's a white seal ring, made of plastic (which is just the crystal edge). This is the easiest "fake spotter" in all Submariner reps.

They have improved the Sub in many ways in last 15 months but the old TW version (and the new MBW version that Luckyyy was selling) are still the only ones where the crystal/case looks almost correct. Too bad the old "TW best" (that apparently George is selling too, and calling it "MBW") has awful dial, horrible crown guards and "jumbo" crown which completely ruin the watch. Don't waste your money on the outdated rep. If I had to choose I'd still take the EL version any day over it.

Hope this helps.

[By-Tor]

Yes, my reply was confusing. I meant the "new" EL version without lugholes is better overall although it has inferior case/crystal (in MY opinion only). But it depends on what you're after. Those "pimply" hour markers and crappy dial font would bother me more than the crystal/case thing.

Just like hk45a said the "lugholes version" is much better watch if you're going to mod it (change the dial, crown, etc). It has better case to begin with. But the crown guard shape is so much off on the rep (too thick and "curved") that they're impossible to modify similar with the genuine. Experts will always spot it as a fake, no matter how much mods you do. This applies to MBW vintages as well. They're short and "spiky" (and much straighter) on the genuines but reps have the shape all wrong to begin with.

Personally I have changed my approach a bit. Since I'm not skilled enough to do mods myself (like Randy and Tommy) I will probably never, ever pay extra to modify any rep watch (except service/fix the movements) anymore. It's too expensive and it won't be like the genuine anyway. I've given up hope with Submariners. Without excessive mods they're not that great replicas when it comes to accuracy (compared to many others).

I just buy a watch that's good enough... and that I'm happy with... and then live with the flaws.

Edited July 24, 2006 by By-Tor

[sonystyle]

Thanks By-Tor for the thoughtful and informative contribution as always.

I wait till the TW Classic gets here, try it on for a while and see how I like it. Maybe put it up for sale if I dont wear it and get one of those awesome new blue Panerai GMTs...

Best regards