Are Mbws Really The Best Right Out Of The Box?

[crystalcranium]

I another thread, a MBW owner listed the problems with his Double Red "Best Watch" and they seemed to be considerable, defects that would have us dissing a $120 Submariner as a copy with significant flaws. Wrong insert, wrong lug holes, wrong crystal, wrong cgs, ugly engraving on the caseback..... Is it the fact that this watch is modifiable with genuine parts so most of these problems can be solved with a OEM upgrade that gives it its' mistique? Is the charm that when corrected with genuine replacements, it comes closer to the real thing than any other Rolex replica, a replacement option nor available on other replica submariners?

[Perfectionist]

What is an MBW ?

[Linder]

Maria's Best Watch

[jimmy]

Who's Maria??

LOL!!

Maria's Best Watch

[By-Tor]

Who's Maria??

LOL!!

What's a "LOL"?

[Watchmeister]

Land O' Lakes

[cwai02]

What's a "LOL"?

Lusting out loud

Lack of Language

lots of love

Little Old Ladies

[jimmy]

Is "Maria" that Italian woman who sells high end Italian reps??

"How do you solve a problem like Maria?"

"Tippy Toe, Tippy Toe"

[fotoman]

Maria you say? Who is this apperition you speak of.

- -- Sounds like a friend from a long ago past.

Hope everyone is doing well

Pho-

[By-Tor]

To answer the original question...which was a good question: Are they best replicas "out of box"? I really don't think so. But the MBW vintage Rolexes are easily the best vintage Rolexes "out of box".

Correct case (almost correct...because the cg's look WRONG) and ability to take genuine parts make them good, expensive blanks for expensive projects.

They also have wrong bracelets (solid middle links), wrong clasps, wrong inserts, wrong pearls and wrong crowns and datewheels. The dials are less than perfect too. It's very easy for experts to spot the MBW 1680 dial as a fake. Believe me, I did lots of research when I wrote my 1680 review...compared the pictures, cases, bracelets, etc. And I believe the 1680 cg's cannot be modified 100% like the genuine...they can be modified EXTREMELY CLOSE...but not 100% because of the wrong cg shape to begin with. I'm quite sure the DRSD and the vintage white SD have different guards and therefore those are possible to shape correctly.

All in all: You have to replace almost everything to get it the 1680 to 98%...find a genuine dial, etc...and that's expensive. But the end result is probably somewhere around $1400-$1900 (just a wild guess here). Yes, that's still cheap compared to genuine...but it's still a fake.

But on the other hand...they have a "feel" of the genuine watch which is kinda important, and from vintages it's always hard to tell. Best "feel" of any Rolex I've had.

But honestly...while they're the best vintage Rolexes I still think there are some new reps are much more accurate "out of box": 4th Gen PO (which accepts gen parts too), some Breitlings, Seamaster Pro, Constellation Double Eagle, Explorer I, TAG Link Chronograph, VC Overseas, even some other modern Rolexes.

This makes a good debate...and for some reason they have gotten a "holy" status among the community members. If you look at them honestly what they are... I believe they're a bit overhyped. That's one of the reasons I sold my watch.

PS: Don't get me wrong: I still think they're amazing reps. And I hope didn't open a can of worms here. Just my honest views on the matter.

[jimmy]

I think if one can attain a vintage for say $450 & sink another $500 into it for mods, the watch will be amazing, there are some pic's of modded 1665 on this & other boards & they make me want to drool, I don't think the same can be done for one of Trusty's so called high end vintage reps.

[Pugwash]

I think if one can attain a vintage for say $450 & sink another $500 into it for mods, the watch will be amazing, there are some pic's of modded 1665 on this & other boards & they make me want to drool, I don't think the same can be done for one of Trusty's so called high end vintage reps.

True, but come on, it's still just a $1000 rep.

Honestly, I get the whole fun thing, but for a grand, you can get some damned nice genuines.

[Guest aclaimsman]

Bytor,

I am sitting here trying to figure out wether I want to pull the trigger on Joshua's best, Eddie Lee's TW or George's MBW, you ain't making this any easier.

[ubiquitous]

I am among those who believes that if you want the best, sometimes you have to build it. And if you have to build it, start with the best platform to do it. MBW's offer just that. A good basis to start with. Sure, you have to swap out a considerable amount of items, but let's face it- replica parts just look like... Replica parts. Want it to look like genuine? Use genuine parts. It ain't cheap, and sometimes finding such parts is not easy, but the results speak for themselves. Sure... It's still a fake. Sure, it's expensive. But, it's a hobby, and hobbies are never cheap. I'm picky... And I've been called picky. Doesn't bother me... It's just the truth. I like my stuff to look as high quality as possible, and I take pride in the fact that my watches are a direct result of the time and effort invested

If I wanted gen, I'd buy gen. But where's the fun in that? I'd buy it, wear it, and eventually get bored with it. If I build something, it's given me an opportunity to do more with my watch...

[ubiquitous]

I have a minimum of $600 into each of my watches... $2600 into my most extensively built piece. I could have bought some nice gens with the money, but I'd rather build

...quality over quantity. Words that I live by....

[By-Tor]

I believe the vintage (white and red) SeaDweller are better "project watches" to begin with. 1680 is too flawed in many ways. The dial bothered me the most. Nothing is quite correct on the MBW 1680 dial...for that particular red model...starting from the oversized red SUBMARINER writing...and wrong ROLEX and coronet.

[Pugwash]

I have a minimum of $600 into each of my watches... $2600 into my most extensively built piece. I could have bought some nice gens with the money, but I'd rather build

See? I get that. That's not what most MBW buyers do though.

[By-Tor]

I am among those who believes that if you want the best, sometimes you have to build it. And if you have to build it, start with the best platform to do it. MBW's offer just that. A good basis to start with. Sure, you have to swap out a considerable amount of items, but let's face it- replica parts just look like... Replica parts. Want it to look like genuine? Use genuine parts. It ain't cheap, and sometimes finding such parts is not easy, but the results speak for themselves. Sure... It's still a fake. Sure, it's expensive. But, it's a hobby, and hobbies are never cheap. I'm picky... And I've been called picky. Doesn't bother me... It's just the truth. I like my stuff to look as high quality as possible, and I take pride in the fact that my watches are a direct result of the time and effort invested

If I wanted gen, I'd buy gen. But where's the fun in that? I'd buy it, wear it, and eventually get bored with it. If I build something, it's given me an opportunity to do more with my watch...

Absolutely. But you have the skill, talent, equipment and the sources for parts. Most members don't... so you have to add considerable amount of money to pay for the workload to a watch modder. I'm thinking this from a standard replica buyer's view...what I basically am myself.

Like I said in another thread I have changed my views on watch mods. Mostly because I don't have the skills to do those myself. Remember when some people were investing total of $800 to mod a CN Sub last year...full BigRedJoe s"ervice pack"? Now you can get better and more accurate ETA Sub for $150. Where's the fun in that?

[ubiquitous]

Well, in the case of $800 modded Subs becoming obsolete in a few months time.. There is no fun in that. At all.

I suppose we're all in this hobby for different reasons. But I must say that the work I do on my watches isn't by any means special, nor is it difficult. It's certainly not rocket science, and I do believe that with the right tools, patience, mind set and a good eye for detail (as many of the members have- Quite possibly the most scrutinizing eyes of any WIS forum) most people can do this exterior modification work (not to be confused with movement work and overhauls that Ziggy performs, which DOES require skill, talent, knowledge and expertise). It does take practice, but we all gotta start somewhere. I wish more members would give it a try...

Anyhow... I think I must have somehow siderailed this discussion from the original topic to a debate on mods I'm going to sit back for a bit, enjoy my Excedrin and Mountain Dew cocktail and try to zone out for a bit.

[By-Tor]

Well, in the case of $800 modded Subs becoming obsolete in a few months time.. There is no fun in that. At all.

I suppose we're all in this hobby for different reasons. But I must say that the work I do on my watches isn't by any means special, nor is it difficult.

Come on Randy, you're WAY too modest. Your "reps" are out of this world and you know it. 95% of the members couldn't duplicate the things you have done...even if they tried. I'm not a "handy" person at all. I can imagine myself filing the crown guards but messing up with hands, dials and all those small parts...no way!!!

And I agree 100%. Owning an accurate rep of some watch is much more fun that buying the genuine...even if you got it for a good price. It makes much more interesting conversation...and this forum (for example) is much more interesting that ANY gen watch forum. We generally don't have the elitist attitude, not tunnel vision (most members own both reps and gens) and we have access to "feel" all kinds of luxury watches for ridiculous prices. And the funniest thing is that probably the best watch knowledge of all forums is here.

And your Tudor and Daytona projects have been the most fascinating read in the past year. I could easily buy a gen Tudor for $1K, it's not financial thing... but it would be boring. I know exactly what you mean... I get much better kicks for buying 96% accurate rep of some watch for 1/15 of the price.

Yeah...offtopic but I just HAD to add this.

[ridnwind]

WM, MBW 1665's...yes they are worth it!

Rolex collectors clamor over each other just to see pictures of 1665's and only dream of owing one.

ROLEX 1665 (click here)

[ubiquitous]

Sir By-Tor... I am humbled

[cpt390]

I have a real Sub Dial.

Who's watch will it fit??

[crystalcranium]

Great inormation here answering my initial question! So it looks like the MBWs provide the best platform for genuine modifications but are not particularily accurate reps in and of themselves. I suppose after I'm finished collecting the 8 or 9 "best reps" out there I'll get into buying a genuine mods platform and build me a better one.

[Sherrington]

They also have wrong bracelets (solid middle links), wrong clasps, wrong inserts, wrong pearls and wrong crowns and datewheels. The dials are less than perfect too. It's very easy for experts to spot the MBW 1680 dial as a fake. Believe me, I did lots of research when I wrote my 1680 review...compared the pictures, cases, bracelets, etc. And I believe the 1680 cg's cannot be modified 100% like the genuine...they can be modified EXTREMELY CLOSE...but not 100% because of the wrong cg shape to begin with. I'm quite sure the DRSD and the vintage white SD have different guards and therefore those are possible to shape correctly.

Yes By-tor you have opened a can of worms!!

I have both the 1665 and 1680 MBW Rolex's which, like Randy, I have modded myself which if you can do the CG's then the rest is dead easy (with practice!).

Before I modded my 1680, I, like you, looked at hundreds of photos of gen watches to compare. What I did find was that there wasn't a 1680 with exactly the same shape of CG's as any other 1680 I looked at. This is because over the years most vintage Rolex's have been serviced on a regular basis and most have had the CG's polished which after a few times alters the shape of them some what. I chose a particular gen 1680 photo that I liked the look of and replicated the CG's to 100% of that. Close enough for me.

Change the bracelet to a rivetted rep from Homer $50, add a gen crystal $65, add gen pearl to a good aftermarket bezel insert $50 and apart from the "Submariner" on the dial being a gnats todger too big you have a 99% rep. Date wheels have also been changed regularly to various styles by Rolex service centres. As long as it's a bold font and you don't look when there is a 3 in the month, no problem.

Do this as well with a 1665 either white dial or red dial and you have another 99% rep. Which is a lot closer than the Omega's we all keep ranting on about.