oirish Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I just phoned up a local jeweller about servicing my new rep watch. Of course, I knew what the answer would be, 'Not a chance'. He seemed helpful, but was somewhat apprehensive. For all he knows I could've been a Gen company man. Mmmm I wonder if the story would be different if I called in in person. Anybody had a good experience? No names or places of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLudlowe Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Anybody had a good experience? No names or places of course... Don't go to a jeweler, go to a small watch shop with an in-house watchsmith - most of them are starving like everyone else these days. Go to them watch in hand and a sincere expression on your face and ask if they can help you with your watch. No big speech, don't even say if it's a rep or not. Just ask them to do the work you need. If they can, they probably will. They have rent to pay. Of course if it needs parts they likely can't get them unless it's a real ETA. If you tell them upfront it's a rep, they have legal issues to deal with. You might be a cop. So just say it's a watch and it needs work. If they tell you it's a fake, just say "I'm not surprised - but I really need it, is there anything you can do?" If they say no, say you're sorry to waste their time and leave. But they probably will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oirish Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Good advice. Thanks. I've ordered my first rep and I would like to wear it as my main watch, so I need it to last a long time. I'll need to have it serviced within the first few months of wrist time to ensure this. Your approach sounds like the one I had in mind myself. I have another (patek venus wind) but it'll be a sunday wearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Definitely go to an indy rather than a authorized dealer for service. If you don't have prior experience with the guy, I suggest you start with simple service to gauge their quality, reliability, and value. And I focus on the movement rather than the "brand," as in "I believe it has a 7750/2836/etc. ..... have you worked on those?" Simply saying it's an Asian movement doesn't tell him much, because it could be a $10 piece of crap or a fairly good movement. The guy I've used has been fairly complimentary to the quality of many recent vintage rep movements. One more thing: When you say -- "I need it to last a long time. I'll need to have it serviced within the first few months of wrist time to ensure this" -- be sure of what kind of service you are getting. The Zigmeister has made a compelling argument (with physical evidence) that many watch repairers only do very superficial cleaning. He argues that to ensure long-term reliability you need a full disassembly, cleaning, and relube. If your repair person is only charging $75-100 for a movement service, you probably aren't getting a full service. Check The Zigmeister's subforum for particulars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLudlowe Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) Surprisingly, I've never had any serious problems, just stay away from ADs - their business relies on people paying too much for gens. The other guys just want to make a living - Edited February 5, 2009 by RLudlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I had a good one only a few miles away and he was superb, then one day he showed me a letter he got from the British Horological Institute (he's an associate member) which condemned the practice of working on 'fake' watches and whilst it didin't go as far as threatening to defrock him, he took it quite serious and politely declined any future commissions. Twas a sad day indeed. He was a decent bloke and to be honest I couldn't fault him for coming to that decision. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidestro Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 There are big warnings on these sites not to take a rep into an AD. I suppose being an ass and calling should fall under that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLudlowe Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 he showed me a letter he got from the British Horological Institute (he's an associate member) which condemned the practice of working on 'fake' watches I wonder how they would ever know - do they do surprise inspections of his shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I wonder how they would ever know - do they do surprise inspections of his shop? I too was wondering the same thing. I hardly think that "grassing him up" would be acceptable proof that he was working on reps, as thats just hearsay and its his word against the accusers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Don't go to a jeweler, go to a small watch shop with an in-house watchsmith - most of them are starving like everyone else these days. Go to them watch in hand and a sincere expression on your face and ask if they can help you with your watch. No big speech, don't even say if it's a rep or not. Just ask them to do the work you need. As far as the couple I know, using the "Don't ask, don't tell" approach seems to work just fine with them. Playing the "victim" card is a good backup just in case. Building a relationship with the watchsmith is important also. Taking in other watches for work might help to make you seem a little less "despicable" in the eyes of some that have a higher conscience. I'd start with a good watch first then work up to the rep, especially if the watchsmith is the only one in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I too was wondering the same thing. I hardly think that "grassing him up" would be acceptable proof that he was working on reps, as thats just hearsay and its his word against the accusers. Well I guess they could have a "spy" of sorts take a cheap rep into his shop and ask him to repair it... If he consents he either: Didn't know it was a rep movement (in which case, the Institute probably doesn't want him as a member) or he willing worked on a rep which has the same connotations and qualifiers as my first point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Michael Allen Watchmaker a member on this site, said he got those letters from the Horological Institute and Rolex as well. He told them that when they pay his mortgage and expenses...he'll stop working on fakes. He never heard back from them. Read his introductory post...quite interesting on this perspective. Back to the topic...the more info you know on your watch...the better your engagement with the watchmaker will be. If you know you have an ETA 2836/2824, etc movement...ask if they can work on that. If you have an A7750 movement, ask if they can work on mechanical automatic chronographs...ask what kind they have worked on. Say you have an Asian copy of one that needs servicing...read The Zigmeister's posts on the peculiarities of servicing an Asian movement...and present them that information if they seem qualified to do servicing...recognizing that if a part needs to be replaced...you may be pooched because they will likely not have parts that are compatible or can be made compatible. If you have an Asian 2813/4813, etc cheap 21j movement...don't expect them to service it...but possibly reset a keyless works if you can't get the stem in properly, reset hands properly, fix a slipped datewheel, etc. If you know what you have an present it as a fake with particular movements...you might be better off. I've had no problems with a few in Toronto. For the real work...The Zigmeister's the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Michael Allen Watchmaker a member on this site, said he got those letters from the Horological Institute and Rolex as well. He told them that when they pay his mortgage and expenses...he'll stop working on fakes. He never heard back from them. Read his introductory post...quite interesting on this perspective. I respect Michael Allen for saying that, couldn't have put it any better IMO. If the work just isn't coming in from gen owners, then what is a watchmaker to do? He needs to eat and put a roof over his head like the rest of us... A watchmaker has the skill to work on watches, gens and reps are both watches, nothing more and nothing less. Its about time Rolex & other gen companies realise that, as well as people who think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well I guess they could have a "spy" of sorts take a cheap rep into his shop and ask him to repair it... If he consents he either: Didn't know it was a rep movement (in which case, the Institute probably doesn't want him as a member) or he willing worked on a rep which has the same connotations and qualifiers as my first point. If thats whats happening thats just a sad, lame thing to do IMO. I mean if we analyse it carefully, in what way are members of the BHI exactly going to benefit, in the real world? A pay rise? A free watch from Rolex for hunting down rep workin' watchmakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 If you tell them upfront it's a rep, they have legal issues to deal with. You might be a cop. So just say it's a watch and it needs work. If they tell you it's a fake, just say "I'm not surprised - but I really need it, is there anything you can do?" If they say no, say you're sorry to waste their time and leave. But they probably will. ??? There are no "legal issues" for working on replica's - at least here in the US, just as there are none for owning a replica. A watchsmith can work on anything he or she wants to. Tell 'em straight-up what it is you're asking them to work on. Playing games is totally unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Guys, perhaps I didn't explain too well. The letter my friend got was not a personal letter, it was a generic letter to all members and associate members of the BHI warning them of the risks they undertook working on non-genuine specimens. I think we tend to get cocooned in our little world of replica watches, thinking that no-one is watching us, but the reality is that organisations such as the BHI and other international partner establishments are very much "on the case". Beleive me that I'm not trying to scaremonger but I really think that RWG members have to be extremely diplomatic, nae guarded when they choose to approach a watchmaker for assistance. And for the record ADs are an absolute no no! JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oirish Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Lots of good advice there. Thanks guys. I found two watchsmiths willing to take on reps in my area. I did this by approaching ADs with a story about servicing my 1950 Bulova. I asked for a specialist they might know in the area who has experience with old movements as my watch may need parts. This is a great way to get a list of retired watchsmiths who are glad of the business and would probably like to see the innovations in the modern rep market anyway. My first rep my BCE just arived. Looks good. I'll wait a month or two to make sure its ticking over ok before I get it serviced at one of these guys. I'll let you know how I get on. This whole thing is turning out to be one big adventure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 ??? There are no "legal issues" for working on replica's - at least here in the US, just as there are none for owning a replica. A watchsmith can work on anything he or she wants to. Tell 'em straight-up what it is you're asking them to work on. Playing games is totally unnecessary. I agree...no legal issues but Rolex can chose who it supplies parts to and at what cost... if you don't play nice- no soup for you. I'm sure that's the threat they use all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 oirish: What MVT is in your BCE? It could be that a new MVT in a few years time is cheaper than a service. I don't hink the supplt of CN MVTs is going to dry up any time soon You may want to read all you can here about serviceing the MVT in your watch and forarm your WM with some rep type info too. They can be tricky little jiggers for someone who is not used to working on them. Just my .2c Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I had a problem with my Graham Oversized Chronofighter and called the only watch guy listed in the YP's of my 230,000 population town. He hemmed and hawed but agreed to look at it, thinking it was a $25 Canal Street watch. He was blown away by the watch but refused to work on it because it was a chrono. Good for him. I wouldn't want him working on it anyway. I sent it back to Sead who fixed it for free as it was still under warranty. I think I'll stick with the watchmen on the fora from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oirish Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 My BCE mvt is an A7750 28800. Its a very good mvt by all accounts here, though I know not as good as a swiss ETA 7750. I want this watch to last and not have a reported (very) max life span of 3 years. I'll be treating it like its a gen. I'd like to update the bezel too. Its the biggest flaw at the mo and screams 'REP'. The datewheel has already been updated (still sunken, but thats the tradeoff with the Asian mvt over the ETA). I might let the watch die after a couple of services. I feel it would be cheaper than replacing the mvt whenever it dies. Some reports here state the average unserviced life of a A7750 is about 1 year give or take a few months. So to me thats 200 - 300 Euros service costs for min 10 years life. And min 100 Euros per movement every year for 10 years if I were to replace the movement. Thats a big difference. Maybe I'm off in my assumptions but even erring on the side of caution these calcs still make sense to me. Ive read the servicing forumns here and the 7750 is a very complex mvt so I hope my new smith can deal with it, especially as its a chrono. She used to work at an AD so should be capable. If this fails for me what about the servicing people here in rwg? Who is willing to service my piece and resides in the EU? Ive seen that it may cost around 100 Euros. I dont want to risk another trip to and from China. I have customs worries. I'd feel badly stung financially if customs nabbed my newly serviced loot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I do not think is illegal to service a rep. Nobody will go to jail for fixing or servicing a rep watch. is not like the watch guy is a dealer of some sort. All he can say is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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