toygar Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Just got this watch from a well know dealer as a refurbished product roughly for $400.could not help but notice the lume color difference on the hour markers and the hands.is this something common?should i ask him to fix this? i mean , if this is normal on a gen rolex or rep rolex then i am not worried.but if it is not.i sure dont want to see this everytime i look at the watch. could members who know about these issues give an advice please. thank you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Looks odd, and is not right. I thought the refurb WM9 watches had good dials, but the cases may have a ding/mark or something? I would get it relumed if WM9 does not offer a new dial and hands for it..... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toygar Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 i just dont get it.i'd say ***k it if it was like a $100 generic replica.i did research before i bought this.read a lot of reviews of different people about these watches and having bought refurbished items before did not see any problem buying one from him. even the cyclopse x/y axis is a bit off.i mean come on if i can see these problems being not a watch expert , the maker of this watch should already know about this already. i contacted him about this issue and he wont take it back since it is refurbished.but the problem is not the case or the bracelet in this watch.it is the dial and the hands which were advertised as new. i really dont feel like i should spend any more money in this particular watch because it is wrongfully made and wrongfully advertised. we'll see what happens .hope he stands behind his product which i think he will. Looks odd, and is not right. I thought the refurb WM9 watches had good dials, but the cases may have a ding/mark or something? I would get it relumed if WM9 does not offer a new dial and hands for it..... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 i just dont get it.i'd say ***k it if it was like a $100 generic replica.i did research before i bought this.read a lot of reviews of different people about these watches and having bought refurbished items before did not see any problem buying one from him. even the cyclopse x/y axis is a bit off.i mean come on if i can see these problems being not a watch expert , the maker of this watch should already know about this already. i contacted him about this issue and he wont take it back since it is refurbished.but the problem is not the case or the bracelet in this watch.it is the dial and the hands which were advertised as new. i really dont feel like i should spend any more money in this particular watch because it is wrongfully made and wrongfully advertised. we'll see what happens .hope he stands behind his product which i think he will. Sorry to hear about your dilemma. Did the original sales (or any questions asked) reveal that the lume of the dial and hands had been re-furbished to match each other? If that wasn't something specified (as matching), and it was clear from the photo, you might have a hard time getting a return. If you absolutely cannot get a return from the dealer, your options are to either send it for a re-lume, or, sell it 'as is', and hope someone will pay a reasonable price. Something you could take some comfort from, is that when gen Rolexes are serviced, parts (such as dials and hands) are often replaced with new parts, and that would lead to inconsistent lume appearances... Don't get me wrong, I totally get where you're coming from, so I really hope you're able to come to an amicable resolution with the dealer (or through a re-sale), but, you can always take comfort from knowing that not even gens always match 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toygar Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) http://watchmaker9.tv/products/REFURB-SUBM...07-Z-SERIAL.htm This is a brand new watch with REFURBISHED 2007 Z Submariner watchcase and bracelet from returns or service projects left over. There may be slight cosmetic imperfections on the watchcase and bracelet, for example: scratches. The dial/hands set/bezel insert and crown set are brand new. We won't take return or exchange, or offer replacements for cosmetic issues on the Watchcase and Bracelet on this item. If you want to be sure to get the perfect item, Please Check Out its New Model, the 2008 Z-Serial Submariner 16610 or the 2008 M-Serial Submariner 16610 this is what was advertised on the website.the case has a nick on it which does not bother me at all.i already knew this could be the case with this refurbished watch. i am waiting for the dealer to do something about it .got my fingers crossed. Edited March 20, 2009 by toygar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 From your picture, I can't see where the color difference is that great. But maybe it's my computer. A slight difference between the hands and the dial is not to be totally unexpected. If I was plunking down $5K for a gen, then it would be a diffferent matter. Heck, George says buy the new rep for another $130 plus or minus in his ad, if you have any reservations about a refurbished watch. And no returns (granted he says in regards to the case), You really got a good deal for the $400 you spent, but if you're unhappy and George doesn't come thru for you, there are a few other options you could try. 1. You could buy a set of hands for ETA from a place like Clark Watch Supply (Nostalgia2000 on ebay) and have a watchmaker install them- maybe $20 for the hands, $10-15 to install. Hopefully they'd be a better match. I have a set on a sub and they have good lume, also. 2. Get in touch with bklm1234 and see if he could take a look at the watch for you. Since he sells these WM9 subs, he has spare dials and hands- maybe he could fix the problem for a reasonable charge- he's in CONUS- hopefully you are too. I have a gen sub with ten year old dial and hands and already they are aging at different rates. I'm just happy they still glow in the dark. But my point is, a slight difference between dial and hands is not that big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 If the issue was just the dial and hands lume being slightly off I would 100% agree alligoat, but the hour markers on the lower half of the dial have a strange green tint, just like the hands, but the upper hour markers are pure white, just as they should be. It seems whoever re-lumed the dial had the mix wrong or inconsistent..... So the watch needs a new dial and hands, and seeing as the website states the dial/hands, and crown will be new and problem free, I think toygar got a raw deal really.... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Like I said about the pic on the computer... The pic I see has about the same hour markers thru-out and the hands are just ever so slightly greener- not much at all. Getting George (WM9) to the table... I just don't know, and he is in Taiwan, which is a postage headache, IMO. That's why I think BK might be a good possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmurphy926 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Another option if you can't get satisfaction from George, might be to replace the dial and hands. I have a wm9 v1. I replaced the dial and date wheel with noob dial and date wheel. I plan to send it to The Zigmeister for movement service and lume. This dial and hand set have been on a few subs and removed and reinstalled many times. I recently noticed they have a few little scratches. Not really visible to the naked eye, but since I'm spending money to relume, I want the hands and dial to be nice and clean. I wrote Andrew (trustytime) and asked if he had a handset available for my ETA 2836-2 movement. He said he sells the dial and hand set for $58 USD. Perfect for my needs!! So, I ordered a set. I haven't seen them yet, but I expect them to be good quality. I know it would suck to have to sink more money into your watch, and the Andrew set would glow only as well as a standard rep, but I just thought I'd throw this out there. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toygar Posted March 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) I have contacted BK, and will ship the watch to him in a couple days so he can check it out. As for George , I am going to deal with him in a different way. I bought a refurbished replica watch @ $375 . What we should realize is that for that amount someone could go and buy a brand new watch that will look almost identical (but we choose not to right ) , except it wont say rolex on the dial.Eventhough this was a cheaper version of the watches he builds , it still is not a cheap watch guys,come on now.For that much money i would expect the seller to honor his word about the dial hands and whatsoever being new and assume they would be cosmetically under warranty. I just cant justify him not accepting to fix it bla bla bla.This might just go on forever and drive everyone who is involded insane. Bottomline is next time i decide to buy a replica rolex,WM9 will definately be NOT the person to buy, although i do admire the quality of watches he makes.I'd rather buy it from BK who basically sells improved version of WM9 watches.Not only that he lives only 5 hours from where i am in Cali,he also happens to be a trusted seller of this board. Thank you all and Cheers Edited March 21, 2009 by toygar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 BK is referred to as the 'sub cannibal' on another rep board and as much as I love subs, he's miles ahead of me. I'm sure he can help you out, he's helped me in the past and I've even had the pleasure of answering a few questions for him. It's that sharing of knowledge that makes this a great place. This hobby can be frustrating at times, but in the long run, if you stick with it, you'll learn a load and end up with some fine watches to boot. This experience with George that you've had hasn't been the greatest, but hopefully you'll be able to salvage it and end up with a great watch. These subs have come a long way in the last 4-5 years and the WM9/BK subs are some of the best we've seen to date. You made a good choice w/ the refurbed WM9 because it's really the best watch case out there for building from, IMO. Once you get the dial and hands squared away, you'll be good to go. I know it's a lot of money, but you are working on a first class rep- these are really la creme de la creme. And when you start adding gen parts, they will be basically indistinguishable from the gens. Hopefully you'll stick around here and continue to learn. I guess that's what I really love about this place is that you can learn so much- just keep reading and asking questions. This is really the place to learn about watches in every fashion, gens, reps and frankens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toygar Posted March 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) if this color difference is accepted normal in broad daylight , then this watch has no problem like i say.u guys tell me. Edited March 22, 2009 by toygar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 As I mentioned the other day, sometimes, even gen Rolexes will not match due to replacement parts being installed during servicing. However, all the Rolex reps I've bought in the past, have had closer matching lume. When I swapped hands and dials around, I knew I would have to tolerate miss-matched colors, so I learned to ignore it. Given how focussed you are on this aspect of the watch, I don't think you are ever going to accept it 'as is', so I would suggest (if you can't return it) either have it re-lumed, or sell it. Sorry if that comes off as blunt, but you're obviously not happy with that aspect of the watch, so I'm not going to try and change you mind about how you feel about it, and I'd rather give you some honest options for how to move forwards with it Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 BK is referred to as the 'sub cannibal' on another rep board and as much as I love subs, he's miles ahead of me. I'm sure he can help you out, he's helped me in the past and I've even had the pleasure of answering a few questions for him. It's that sharing of knowledge that makes this a great place. This hobby can be frustrating at times, but in the long run, if you stick with it, you'll learn a load and end up with some fine watches to boot. This experience with George that you've had hasn't been the greatest, but hopefully you'll be able to salvage it and end up with a great watch. These subs have come a long way in the last 4-5 years and the WM9/BK subs are some of the best we've seen to date. You made a good choice w/ the refurbed WM9 because it's really the best watch case out there for building from, IMO. Once you get the dial and hands squared away, you'll be good to go. I know it's a lot of money, but you are working on a first class rep- these are really la creme de la creme. And when you start adding gen parts, they will be basically indistinguishable from the gens. Hopefully you'll stick around here and continue to learn. I guess that's what I really love about this place is that you can learn so much- just keep reading and asking questions. This is really the place to learn about watches in every fashion, gens, reps and frankens. Well said Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toygar Posted March 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thank you all for sharing your opinions and being helpfull. Even i have to send it to get it fixed , it still is a solid watch.hope the water resistance up to 300 m is legit. George is not happy i brought it up here as critiscm but overall even if i have to spend a little extra on the side this is a quality watch. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thank you all for sharing your opinions and being helpfull. That's what we're here for Even i have to send it to get it fixed , it still is a solid watch. There's always a positive aspect hope the water resistance up to 300 m is legit. Hard to say. I remember reading a review someone wrote of the Deep Sea, which was actually tested by deep sea divers. The watch stood up to the pressures without leaking. Given the origin of these watches, it is impossible to truly assure that the watch will actually be made well enough to provide the depth rating of a genuine Rolex. If you actually need your watch to be 300m water resistant (ie for solid use diving either professionally or as a hobby) then I would suggest buying the real thing. That will give you the guarantee and assurance which you need. Of course, you can always have a rep pressure tested, but, as mentioned, given the origin of the parts, there is every chance that, while the watch will stand up to use for bathing/swimming, 300m would be being rather optimistic... George is not happy i brought it up here as critiscm but overall even if i have to spend a little extra on the side this is a quality watch. cheers. To be honest, it was a legitimate point for you to raise. I admit, it is a somewhat picky point to raise, but given that the color of the hands and markers is noticeably different, it is a legitimate point. What one person can ignore, another cannot, and it's only reasonable to acknowledge that difference in perspectives and tolerances. These forums exist for people to exchange knowledge, to share with each other what they know about watches, thus ultimately, giving people a better idea on who sells what, and who to buy what from, if they are after a specific product. After all, X can never be Y, and if someone wants Y, then there's no point in them buying X, so it's only fair that people's experiences with dealers, both positive and negative, get fairly reported, so people can then make an informed choice about their own purchasing requirements. As I said in my first post: If the original sale photos or description showed that the color of the hands and markers was the same, then you should be entitled to return the product, as what you have, simply would not be as the original sale described. If, however, the original sales photos or description showed that the color was different, then, that is simply 'buyers remorse', and quite a different kettle of fish all together Personally, I have only ever found George and BK to be entirely pleasant and utterly professional in our dealings. If you are happy with the rest of the watch, then I would suggest simply paying a little extra to have the hands and dial re-lumed. If, as mentioned above, you actually need the watch to be 300m water resistant, then I would suggest paying to have it professionally tested, and depending upon those results, either keeping it and re-luming it (if it passes the test) or selling it 'as is', and then putting the money from the sale towards a gen, as I get the feeling that only a gen will actually meet your requirements (both aesthetic and mechanic). If you were to put the watch up for sale 'as is', I believe that you would get some very interested buyers, and be able to get a very good re-sale price for it... As before, best of luck with getting a satisfactory resolution to the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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