Genuine as sample - wtf

[vdubpower]

so all these new super duper reps are advertised as made with the genuine as sample. Assuming they had the gen in hand, took it apart and copied it

do u all believe this. trusty has the new ROO barichello which he says is a 45000usd watch .

granted the rep look nice, assuming those are rep pics, but [censored], how do they have a 45000 dollar watch to rep. i could understand 4000 dollar rolexs or something but come one now

any one know what the deal is

[swissaddict]

Sounds like lies to me.. maybe they have high-resolution pictures of the genuine, and the rep production is based on that! Or, possibly, at least with some models.. they do have a gen to use as reference, and it is stolen.

[Ztech]

Guys, lots of articles and documentaries have been written about this subject. The replica industry is close to, if not same or more, to that of the genuine luxury time piece market. Literally in the hundreds of million dollars. You don't think these guys in China can afford a $50k watch to make a rep from? Don't fool yourself, these guys are making tons of money. I saw a documentary some time ago that showed a dealer, not a large one no less, that live in a huge gated mansion and drove a Mercedes. Just because the quality isn't up to genuine specs don't be fooled into thinking these guys aren't making fortunes.

[swissaddict]

Also, it's not like it's $50k down the drain... they can buy it, use it as a sample, and then sell it. Only money lost is the depreciation.

[ratchpot]

If they used a gen RBII to make the replica, they didn't do a very good job. A gen RBII on the second hand market is around $35k. I suppose they could have dismantled it, repped it, and then re-assembled and re-sold it. The problem there is that the end-buyer would have a very expensive watch with a voided warranty.

[MasterOfPuppets]

50,000 high resolution pics wouldn't do the trick

they back the gen, break it down to pieces to the very last detail, and copy each one of these peices then put them all back together

its like when u go to a dentist and he makes a prototype of ur teeth out of mud and clay!!

but ur teeth aren't worth $50k!

and nobody would like a replica of them!

[morlock]

Regarding the subject of this threat, I think in some case this is truth, in some is a marketing trick. anyway I don't you could ask for the FDA seal of approvement to a crack dealer.

Moving away to the main subjet. Is the aforementioned "AUDEMARS PIGUET Limited Edition Ruben Barricello II made with Non Symmetrical Subdial positioning as per the Genuine and Running Secs @ 12" a time bomb ? Asymmetrical sub dial ? Sec at 12 ? This combination is kind of dangerous, right ?

[TeeJay]

It's been stated that Joshua provided the UN MMD for the use in production of the rep. That's not to say that a gen is always used in every reproduction, but it a certainly not an impossibility for many watches, given the amount of sheer currency that they accumulate

[piratedzeus]

Hacked/Stolen CAD drawings maybe..

[b16a2]

I take it with a large pinch of salt. Like the new PO Chrono, I cannot believe they used a genuine, it looks like exactly the same casing as the predecessor but with a new movement.

Don't let the claims fool you into buying a watch, read the reviews, compare it to the genuine yourself, then make your own mind up if the factories really could have screwed up on some of the flaws if they had a genuine in front of them on all of these watches! Some of them are used with the real thing I am sure, others I find it hard to believe!

[Corgi]

Nobody can say for sure whether a genuine watch was actually purchased and used for the manufacturing of the replica. However, other watches advertised as such with quite glaring inaccuracies make me think their claim is, at least in some circumstances, a dubious one.

[ChipSlap]

Not to get too far off the subject, but.....Don't forget, it IS possible to buy pharmaceutical quality cocaine from real drug companies.

[Samurai]

For a selected few models ... They do buy gens. I have communicated with Joshua a couple Of times when he was @ a watch showroom in Singapore picking up a gen or Pre-ordering it. I was communicating with him when he picked up the UN. He has also picked up another watch recently for repping. This watch costs in excess of 26k sing$. We can expect the reps rolling out in about 9 months. As such he is also pretty knowledgeable about watches and gets deep discounts from most AD's In Singapore.

I am not defending anyone here and it's true that most watches are made from pics or are reps.

All said ... The quality of so called made from gens is still better than regular reps.

[TeeJay]

For a selected few models ... They do buy gens. I have communicated with Joshua a couple Of times when he was @ a watch showroom in Singapore picking up a gen or Pre-ordering it. I was communicating with him when he picked up the UN. He has also picked up another watch recently for repping. This watch costs in excess of 26k sing$. We can expect the reps rolling out in about 9 months. As such he is also pretty knowledgeable about watches and gets deep discounts from most AD's In Singapore.

I am not defending anyone here and it's true that most watches are made from pics or are reps.

All said ... The quality of so called made from gens is still better than regular reps.

You mention that Joshua gets good discounts from the ADs, so he's obviously known to them as a client, I wonder if any of them actually realize what happens to those watches

[KB]

Why does everyone automatically assume that the watch needs to be pulled to pieces?

The makers aren't copying the movements they just want to make the watch look cosmetically the same, maybe in some cases this may require pulling the bracelet apart but all other measurements should be able to be taken with the watch intact.

Ken

[Samurai]

You mention that Joshua gets good discounts from the ADs, so he's obviously known to them as a client, I wonder if any of them actually realize what happens to those watches

He he... Yes they'd probably refuse to sell it to him. The ADs think that Joshua is a big time collector. Which actually is a fact as apparently this is what got him into the

Interestingly, every time he has picked up a watch, he has said he is picking it up on behalf of the manufacturer. I guess they all share the initial cost and then reap in the profits.

Imagine... Pick up a gen for 20k.. Spend another 10k for repping(which is extreme).... Cost of manufacturing perhaps $150. Watches sold for $500+. Do the math as to how many they need to sell to break even. And don't forget, the gen gets sold back again in the market.

[TeeJay]

Why does everyone automatically assume that the watch needs to be pulled to pieces?

The makers aren't copying the movements they just want to make the watch look cosmetically the same, maybe in some cases this may require pulling the bracelet apart but all other measurements should be able to be taken with the watch intact.

Ken

From RobbieG's description of events regarding the UN MMD, it certainly sounds like the watch was dismantled, rather than a close visual inspection and measurement

[Toadtorrent]

If they used a gen RBII to make the replica, they didn't do a very good job. A gen RBII on the second hand market is around $35k. I suppose they could have dismantled it, repped it, and then re-assembled and re-sold it. The problem there is that the end-buyer would have a very expensive watch with a voided warranty.

If they sell the watch back to the used market...it's a fraud industry...you can be sure they are remanufacturing whatever seals required to make the watch appear un-opened. They might even sell it as brand new for a 15-20% discount...and who wouldn't snatch it up if it's less than what the AD would charge?

People keep thinking that repping these things means taking them entirely apart. There aren't that many pieces to take apart...and most people who have worked on watches here...could do what needs to be done. You only need to take apart:

1. Bracelet
   
2. Clasp
   
3. End links
   
4. Buckle (if required)
   
5. Case
   
6. Caseback
   
7. Bezel
   
8. Crystal
   
9. Cyclops (or measure off the original)
   
10. 6 Hands
    
11. Dials
    
12. Datewheel
    
13. Bezel insert
    
14. Pearl
    
15. Pushers and crown
    
16. Tube
    
17. Box set and documents
    

That's not a lot...low risk of damage...and probably takes <1 hr to disassemble AND put back together. The movement is what takes time...but they aren't touching this.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Although it is nearly impossible to be certain that genuine watches are purchased, dismantled, scanned, reassembled and most likely sold... Why do you feel it is unlikely?

I think that often members of this and other forums think that the WE are the only clients these dealers have. I dont know how many watches they sell, but Im sure its alot more than they sell here.

Look at the economics... Buy the watch (gray market) for $35k, take it apart, scan it, reassemble it and sell it AGAIN on the gray market for the same price or even at a further discount. With current technology, the watch is easily scanned and the parts are made. So, unlike the old days of hand cutting molds, and creating the correct tooling to make these the manufacturing is fairly straight forward.

They then pump the watch out in the hundreds (or thousands) and sell them for $500 each.

I dont know about you, but it sounds like a damn good investment to me!

And in the end, who really cares... They are getting better, and isnt that all that is important?

[MasterOfPuppets]

alright lets say that a gen IS used as a sample,

that doesn't mean that they were actually bought, maybe those dealers have connections with the people from the ADs, like underground sh*t!

or maybe some of the owners would rent them out or somethin! u never know!!

just my theory!

[ammandel]

Well, if rep makers can't even make a sub right..

[Daytona4me]

Of course all of these are "Made With A Genuine Watch As Example" and to question the intent of this statement is ludicrous,, you know exactly what he wants to portray with this statement.

Of course they are using genuine watches... would they ever lie to us or stretch the truth? nah... never.... Trust every word that is said.

But this is by far my favorite "Made With A Genuine Watch As Example" ....

So.. the next question is ... how long do you tolerate it and at what point will we see "Made from 1/2 Genuine OEM Parts!" ?

[fakemaster]

[TeeJay]

He he... Yes they'd probably refuse to sell it to him. The ADs think that Joshua is a big time collector. Which actually is a fact as apparently this is what got him into the

Interestingly, every time he has picked up a watch, he has said he is picking it up on behalf of the manufacturer. I guess they all share the initial cost and then reap in the profits.

Imagine... Pick up a gen for 20k.. Spend another 10k for repping(which is extreme).... Cost of manufacturing perhaps $150. Watches sold for $500+. Do the math as to how many they need to sell to break even. And don't forget, the gen gets sold back again in the market.

That would definitely be an interesting conversation to listen in on

If they sell the watch back to the used market...it's a fraud industry...you can be sure they are remanufacturing whatever seals required to make the watch appear un-opened. They might even sell it as brand new for a 15-20% discount...and who wouldn't snatch it up if it's less than what the AD would charge?

People keep thinking that repping these things means taking them entirely apart. There aren't that many pieces to take apart...and most people who have worked on watches here...could do what needs to be done. You only need to take apart:

1. Bracelet
   
2. Clasp
   
3. End links
   
4. Buckle (if required)
   
5. Case
   
6. Caseback
   
7. Bezel
   
8. Crystal
   
9. Cyclops (or measure off the original)
   
10. 6 Hands
    
11. Dials
    
12. Datewheel
    
13. Bezel insert
    
14. Pearl
    
15. Pushers and crown
    
16. Tube
    
17. Box set and documents
    

That's not a lot...low risk of damage...and probably takes <1 hr to disassemble AND put back together. The movement is what takes time...but they aren't touching this.

Just the parts which make the whole watch

I think that often members of this and other forums think that the WE are the only clients these dealers have. I dont know how many watches they sell, but Im sure its alot more than they sell here.

To be honest, I wouldn't be so sure about that. When this topic has been mentioned in the past, folks have pointed out that, not only does it take quite some time for a particular dealer's site to appear on a Google search, but they are also quick to post on the forums to inform people of changes in their web addresses. That would indicate that these forums contribute, maybe not all, but certainly a key part of their business...

And in the end, who really cares... They are getting better, and isnt that all that is important?

You're not wrong there, my friend Better product can only be a better thing, particularly for those who plan to keep the watches for a length of time, rather than treating them as utterly disposeable

alright lets say that a gen IS used as a sample,

that doesn't mean that they were actually bought, maybe those dealers have connections with the people from the ADs, like underground sh*t!

or maybe some of the owners would rent them out or somethin! u never know!!

just my theory!

Owners, yes, that wouldn't surprise me, but I wouldn't think an AD connection would be involved. Given the length of time mentioned that the UN MMD was 'under examination' for, there's no way someone in an AD could 'make one disappear' for that long. All it would take would be a random stock-check, and it would be discovered... Interesting idea, but personally, I can't see it working in the long term...

Of course all of these are "Made With A Genuine Watch As Example" and to question the intent of this statement is ludicrous,, you know exactly what he wants to portray with this statement.

Of course they are using genuine watches... would they ever lie to us or stretch the truth? nah... never.... Trust every word that is said.

But this is by far my favorite "Made With A Genuine Watch As Example" ....

So.. the next question is ... how long do you tolerate it and at what point will we see "Made from 1/2 Genuine OEM Parts!" ?

I think this is definitely one of those 'little white lie' scenarios... It might be true for some of the watches, but certainly not all. Indeed, the question is how long do folks tolerate it, and the answer, from what I can see, is longer than one would expect...