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Now that was funny!!! [emoji38] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Good point! In my half century of life, I've learned that you just can't argue with stupid! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi PeteM, welcome back, long not seen on here

Not to worry Ken my wife has them both in her pocket book!

Gilt Sub Hands... Most people put effort into their case, then the dial, the movement and the hands become an after thought. I have always thought that the dial and Mercedes hands are KEY elements and key "tells" on any vintage build budget or high end. There are so many myths surrounding what is correct, good, accepted in this world and I find learning this stuff as frustrating as everyone else, I have had to learn this stuff through trial and error (and error, and error). I get asked the question all the time when I post builds about what hands were used and read all the time "what hands are best" etc. etc. and finding a definitive answer is near on impossible because everyone says something different. I thought it was time to dispel some myths and help a whole mass of people out by showing these hands side by side. So here we go... Every hand set that I have, laid out next to each other, and all photographed to the same scale, next to a gen reference set (not my photo)... It should be noted that some of these have been aged and/or damaged, some are as delivered. Gen Hands I tried to make some general points about the gen hands, some rules that we want to get close to Points *1 - The second hand should have a tapered end The lollipop should have the same size of the base of the hour hand and be roughly twice the width of the minute hand *2 The walls of the hour hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot The height of the shaft should be slightly SHORTER than the diameter of the Mercedes sign *3 - The diam of the Mercedes sign should be roughly a third bigger than the base *4 - The size of the Mercedes lume plot should be as big as the diameter of the hole (however the hole sizes differ, gen is 0.8 and ETA is 0.95mm) *5 - The length of the "point" should be more than half the diameter of the Mercedes sign and a third of the width at the base *6 - The distance from the hole to the start of the lume plot on the minute hand should be short *7 - As with the hour hand the walls of the minute hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot *8 - The distance from the end of the lume plot to the start of the point should be small, approx 2x the width of the side wall There are more observations that can be made but these are the main ones. All Together The comparison candidates - Left to Right 1. Gen reference. It is important to say that this is a reference image and is not my photo. I have scaled this to an approximate same size as the other based on knowing the size of the hour hand hole (. compared to the other ETA (.95) 2. HR New - 2015 these are the replacement hands that HR currently have, the minute hand is not long for their oversized dial. However the hour hand is better than the older ones. 3. HR OLD - circa 2014. The minute hand is long for the HR oversized dial and the dimensions to a gen minute hand are almost perfect. A MUST for an oversized dial. (HR is apparently getting these back in stock but this is unconfirmed at time of writing) 3. Clarks Tudor Sub hands for ETA 2015 - These new hands are excellent and in fact probably the best of all for a very reasonable price $20 USD inc shipping 4. Tiger Concept (OnlineStoreHK). These are the clear looser, terrible in fact. Only buy these for the lollipop second hand if MY is out of stock. 5. Michael Young (Classic Watch Repair CWR) - An excellent set of hands that comes with 2 lollipop second hands, a gilt one and a white one. These hands have an excellent finish but the edges are not sharp and the lume job is terrible and hanging over the edge of the hands. At $65 + $28 Shipping these are the most expensive hands here and I would say, from a shape perspective, only slightly better than the $20 Clarks hands. It should also be noted that the hands shown are for a gen movement, not ETA. But MY used to stock these for ETA but he was out of stock when I asked. 6. Clarks Vintage Sub hands for 157x - I am including these because i have them, I struggled to broach these and ended up bending them. A good shape but now superseded by his Tudor Sub hands for ETA builds. Hour Hands Minute Hands Conclusion I hope it is clear to see that many of these hands are "wrong" not close to vintage sub hands AT ALL. The Tiger concept hands are in last place, however, these come with a lollipop second hand. The winners are Clarks and Michael Young if you don't want a lillipop second hand Clarks is the hands down winner. But it must be noted that by the time you buy a set of Clarks Tudor Sub hands and a set of Tiger's to get a lollipop second hand, you are basically at the same price as the MY hands (if he has them in ETA) An additional note must be made for HR "oversized" dials, for this dial there really is only 1 minute hand, the old HR hand as it will correctly reach the chapter ring on the dial as it should. PLEASE NOTE, I am talking solely about vintage early sub GILT hands here. By the time we get into 5513s particularly the silver hands and most definitely the later ones, the design of the hands has changed very slightly. Many of the gilt hands from the 5512 and early 5513 appear to be the same as the "6538" or "50-60s" era hands I am comparing, maybe these were old stock at the time?. But as the years move forward it is easy to see changes in particular the side walls of the hands get thicker, so if you are doing those builds this reference will not hold up. I hope this helps and means you don't have to buy all of the damned hands that I have bought Kime

Unless, of course, it's PI$$ warm beer and two hours past beaten with the ugly stick wenches! [emoji13] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a Friday and PeteM is back.... does it GET any better than this? Now where's the BAN button.............

Pete you are clearly on top form! Its great to see you around :-)

the 2 bezels he currently has up for sale are not genuine http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submariner-5513-bezel-vintage-original-/271961696964?hash=item3f522e2ac4 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submariner-5512-bezel-vintage-original-/271961681350?hash=item3f522dedc6 Rubber gaskets were installed on all Rolex Oyster Cases starting around 5 mil serial. Here is my 5.1 serial 1680 with a rubber gasket.

There was a topic on VRF or on RWG and the outcome was they are all fake. I dealt with the guy before, bought complete bezels, inserts and 700 crowns. They where all genuine. His name is Roberto.

It's fake. He sells fake cases, bezel assemblies and case backs on ebay from time to time. His engraving have gotten better every year, but still fake. People still bid on them because the quality is similar to phong. Here's a discussion about his cases http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=295506

I think the gasket is supposed to be on the underside of the crystal retention ring and not on the midcase. This happened sometime around the early 70s so the 5.4m SN would have it, but not on the top of the midcase IMO.

and look what Independence got ya... No tea.. !!

Don't fret about being banned there....appaently many of us are. Just one of the downsides of having independant thought.

Are those rep or franken cufflinks ... ??

This guy sells a lot at insane prices (just look at his trading history) but then again....laser welding and all...I would not take the risk on these cases

Welcome back Pete! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reading rules before posting a sales thread should not be that difficult.

Good ol Trailboss or Col or captain fukwit as I like to refer to him as....Great Australian that bloke. That forum used to be one of my favourites and full of great mods but yea those days are long gone don't stress it D as you know it's much better over this side.

Dont believe anything that AJ says.. He was born Lord Tarquin Ponsenby -Smythe third earl of lower Hollacheeks... he was educated at Eton where he earned a tie and a reputation for fagging... he then was the only survivor of the great aristocrat massacre, where a large gathering of aristicrats on a coach trip to visit poor people and larf loudly, was driven off a cliff by an escaped traffic warden with split personalities... (though the rumours he was involved with his uncle lord lucan are as yet unproven) and from that he found himself the beneficiary of a colossal inheritance and the new owner of 23 aristocratic titles. and 4th in line to the throne of Sweden and owner of several islands.. and now has the largest collection of gay porn in the world... So dont believe anything he says

Well, rules are rules. I think you caught the mods on a bad day. But when in their house you play by their rules. I was banned after 2 weeks for my response to a warning I was given. I don't miss them at all. Welcome to the lifetime ban club from rwi.

Great news that the first 150 miles on the H2 has gone exceptionally well and even with turning the supercharger boost down from 3 to 1 this bike is simply crazy! As for the comment above and not 'biting' at all, I can confirm that I started out as a joiner and made my way into business after doing 100 hr weeks working all over the country. Opportunities pass us everyday, it's what you do with them that makes a difference in your life, not what you interpret as 'luck' for others or bad luck for yourselves. I would also add that personally, I have never taken or given money for any business, it has always been meritocartic and earned. Best regards AJ I have a quote that I have used to train business owners/individuals and that is 'It i snot a challenge to climb the ladder of success, its simply moving up one step at a time, the challenge is making sure the ladder is leaning on the right wall!

Pete How great to see you here, its been a while. Hope all is ok with you? Regards AJ

cant beat the guilt card...

Oh well, let's be nice: it happens to every human to have a bad day. But then, indeed, the lack of sense of humor may be permanent for some, unfortunately ;-) Anyways, as said by Nanuq...you're more than welcome, here!

Hey S-dub, I remember when you joined RWG, and TRC before that. In fact, I remember you asking me to change the original name you registered with. You're member #212 here and in all that time you've never put a foot wrong. We're proud to have you around these parts. So stick around, big guy. Beers are on me next time you're in town.

Don't worry, I'm banned on there too, and don't get me started about how I was treated by TB.

Its a can be a bit of a misnomer or perhaps misleading to consider these dials as just lacquer filled I say that as it can suggest that its only the indices that recieve any varnish whereas on PreV dials they were always varnished across the dial which of course by definition means the indices would be filled as part of that process... The reference to fat and thin indices is not a variation of the dial printing but related to the lume applicatiion of the individual dials by the individual lumers and the consistency of the lume as its applied and the way it spreads and/or sits over or under the edfe & height of the indices impression... if you picture the lume sitting below the top of the indices this would give a thin look finish whereas if the lume was to sit over the edges of the indices it would give a fat look to the indices... hopefully that makes sense.. There is plenty of accurate information available on the Risti archives and Thai PAM sites but for example here is a guide on the varnish application on PAMs since PreV and through.. And although these are more modern pics this gives you an idea of the process of ,making the dials

I just PM'd him here to buy mine.