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Admin

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  8. Andrew & Josh's Response To The Little White Lies Thread...

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    As it has been written here, I've been communicating with the dealers in the background here. Because of certain events, Joshua and Andrew are currently busy. Because of this I am posting this reply on behalf of them; Andrew and Joshua will honor all returns and refunds on this watch if you are not satisfied with it. Just direct any queries to Joshua or Andrew and they will take care of it. They are sorry for the way this matter has been handled, and as soon as they have time available they will correct the descriptions on their websites. They also expect other dealers to be scrutinized the same way they have been in this matter.

  13. Andrew & Josh's Response To The Little White Lies Thread...

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    **Admin taking off his admin badge....**

    Well, what can I say....I would be lying if I said that all the pages of the white lies" thread has been interesting, but in some ways they have been interesting. Let me take you down a trip memory lane and offer you some thoughts along the way.

    I, like many others have been around the replica boards for 5-6 years. I have been the moderator of the biggest replica communities for +4 years. So let's rewind the watch 5-6 years. We are at a place called RWCC. Andrew has just posted some new watches and so has Wade. "Wow....they look great...I love them"

    This is that the description looked like back then(just an example):

    Omega Seamaster/black date wheel with white font price $xxx

    + a picture

    That's it. That was all there was to it. I ordered one of my first watches from Wade...I had no clue about what movement that was inside and I am pretty sure we did not discuss any such things as AR, CG's etc. back then. (Ok, we did discuss movements. Either it was ETA or non-ETA, if my mind serves me right. That's how we categorized it back then) Back then all people did was look at the picture and decide if they wanted it or not. Mind you, we we're a tad smaller community back then. Ted can correct me if I am wrong, but I think we were about 300 members on RWCC!?

    Because of some minor conflicts at RWCC, I created TRC and that was the start of the really BIG replica forums. It was also the start of something else that I am 100% sure that the replica forums have contributed to, contrary to what many members may believe: We have changed the replica industry! There is no doubt about it. We have had dealers with direct contacts to the factories almost from the beginning. "Now, who would cater to such a narrow market as these forums", you might be thinking....Well, imagine a dealer that tells his factory that if they change this and improve that, he might have 500+ customers. The dealer is willing to offer the factory a better price, because he knows that he has a lot of customers at the forums that have been looking for a watch with these improvements. And so the process begins. Not to mention that if you have a more expensive watch, there is also more money to be earned. Not much profit can be made on a $15 Rolex you usually see anywhere on the streets where replicas are being sold. And how many of the members on these forums have only bought 1 watch....show of hands....1....2, 3, 4, 5.....6.....7....Not many of us.

    You might say that the dealers get a lot of traffic from the "general" audience, but this has only been happening during the last couple of years since they set up their websites. And personally I believe that these customers are the ones that are looking for that one Rolex they can show off to their friends, colleagues, etc. They are not genuinely interested in watches, like so many members here are. They don't come back to buy another watch, like members here do. Members who come here, bceome a part of the community and camaraderie here and they become more interested in watches, so they don't buy just one. We don't come back for 1 watch, we come back for 10, 20, 30........... (sometimes I think it would have been cheaper just to have been one of those people looking for a Rolex, found a site and having paid way to much money for it I would never have gone back. It sure is a lot cheaper than 5+ years on these forums ;))

    When you think about the fact that RWG and TRC has 10000 members (Yes, I know there are a lot of members that are registered both places) you also will realize there are a lot of people here that can purchase watches. And the people of these forums are loyal members. According to Google statistics (They provide the statistics both here and at RWG) 90%+ are return visitors. Our front page (rwg.cc)has about 15000 unique hits every month and in January RWG passed 15.000.000 hits! But the most crazy thing is that our "main" page, rwg.cc/members had 56,606 unique visitors last month!!!!

    Ok, I'm wandering off here, but I had to take a look at the stats page before I wrote this and I was amazed! My point is that there is a lot of "selling potential" on these forums. Even though only 1/4 of the members post on a regular basis, I know several members that have 0 posts and 30 watches :blink:

    Ok, let me try and get back to my points here;

    It's not just the quality of the watches that have improved. The "quality" of the replica crowd has also improved. Back when I started, nobody used to open up their watch to "just have a look what's inside". And when it comes to this, I do understand of the point several dealers make. They send out watches that were ok when sent, but all of a sudden they are "broken" and returned with various scratch marks on the case back, etc. I posted a post in the admin area that basically said that it HAS to be a nightmare to sell these delicate mechanical pieces to us...you know....men...because most of us are men....We read the forums and see that a member has opened up his watch and done this and that and that with it, and we think "Hey...I can do that"...you know...you're a man...men like to tinker with stuff...even though they have no idea what they are doing. Imagine this; The car engine stops and the man does of course step out of the car while telling his wife/girlfriend "I'll just go ahead and have a look at this bad boy" even though the only way he would actually know what was wrong with the engine was it there was a broken part that was waving a large "Help"-sign when he popped the hood.

    There are a lot of people with a lot of great knowledge here and we all learn a lot about both the replicas and also watches in general, which is good. But I have to admit that there are times I think a lot of people have forgotten that we are dealing with REPLICA WATCHES here. I guess this is one of the hardest parts for some people to understand, because no matter what you do a replica, will always be a replica. I fully understand that people have different feelings and opinions for watches. Like me, I have always bought a watch because I liked the look of it, based on the factory/dealer picture that I saw. I buy a watch because I like it and because I always tell people it is a replica. People think I am crazy when they hear I have about 40 watches and that's proof that these people would never know it was a replica, unless I told them. How many of you had heard of brands like Jaeger Le Coultre, AP, Hublot, Panerai, etc, before you came here. I bet not many of you. I know I found RWCC while looking for a decent replica Rolex. But that's just me. I know A LOT of our members are buying the watches with a completely different motivation. I'm not going to get too much into the different motivations, but the majority of the members want to impress their friends, customers, etc. They want to create an "illusion", so that other people will think they are wealthy and successful (or something else cool!)

    We as a community has a unique opportunity to influence things. The members here should not be afraid to speak up when they see foul play. Honest debate is fundamental to our forum’s viability (I had to borrow that one from you, J:)) We, as a community, has been able to influence the quality of the products we are buying. Why should we not also be able to influence the dealers to be as honest as possible in their descriptions? That's a pretty simple rule: Be honest when describing your products. Joshua and Andrew are not the only ones that have screwed up. Several dealers has probably misrepresented their product now and then, and most likely this has not been on purpose. Andrew and Joshua did a great thing when commissioning this cool watch. Unfortunately things did not go the way they probably planned it, and they messed up when describing the watch. Sure, they should have corrected it at once and sure, they should have posted sooner. But does this one specific event change the fact that Joshua and Andrew are good dealers and usually provide excellent service to the members? Of course not. They may have gotten a small bump in their fender and they needed a friendly push to post a reply, but is this a change in their policy and we will see only faulty descriptions on their website? Well, that remains to be seen, but I doubt it. Andrew and Joshua English is good enough to know what all the different jargons in the replica business means, so I hope they will be posting better descriptions on their websites and write "This watch as a great lume" instead of using a word like Superlume that we all know as the Superlume product used in genuine watches and re-lume projects.

    But this should not only be about Andrew and Joshua. This should be about all the dealers. If you want change, all the dealers should provide a truthful description of their watches; If it is an ETA, write ETA, if it is a Seagull movement, write it. I don't think it should be too hard and I don't think this is something that has to be a "new" rule as of today. I think this is what the dealers have done all the time.

    As gunnar has pointed out, this is written on the front page of RWG;

    A buyer must understand that there is NO grading system for replicas, thus don’t forget this, buying a replicas, and each vender is free to characterize his or her watch anyway that they want. Gross exaggerations by replica sellers are the norm, not the exception. The price of the watch does not necessarily equate with the quality. Caveat emptor the watchword when purchasing replica watches.

    It would be taking things out of context applying this to the forum. If you take a look at the RWG front page, it is supposed to be a warning to potential buyers and visitors to the real scam sites out there and how they handle things. Of course each vender is free to characterize his or her watch anyway that they want, but all the members at RWG are also free to point out the flaws or errors in his description. That's the way the forum should work. And a dealer selling one of those specially made 57jewel Rolexes at $1200 will never be found in the dealer areas here.

    A lot of things has been discussed on all the pages in these two threads, but I think it might be time to give both the thread and the dealers a break. We have all the facts on the table. We will have to let time be the judge of what will happen next and see if descriptions will be updated, etc. When it comes to Joshua and Andrew, I believe they will do the right thing when it comes to this very model that has been discussed. I am sure that members that are not happy with the watch or has issues with it, can contact them and Joshua and Andrew will find a solution.

    **Admin putting his admin badge back on...**

    The RWG forums are here both for the members and the dealers. What we ultimately want here is the best watch community. We want a community of friendly members that take good care of the new members, respect the other members and lookout for each other. We want members and dealers that actively participate in the discussions and can educate each other with their different knowledge. There is a lot we don't know about the replica business and some insights now and then from our dealers would be interesting.

    I will just finish this with the fact that we are dealing with replica watches. This is not a market regulated by regular consumer laws. The only thing we have is consumer power. We are depending on the dealers to provide the products they promise and they rely on our money. It is a relationship built on trust and cash, two things that sometimes does not always mix to good. But we are very fortunate to have a limited number of dealers here (that's why we have a limit ;)) that provide us with the products we want. We all do mistakes now and then. And that's allowed, as long as you are prepared to fix things and make things right. This goes for both the members and the dealers.

    Bottom line: It is not ok to lie , not even when describing a watch and it this specific case the criticism was aimed at Joshua and Andrew. It could not be directed anywhere else, as they were the only two dealers who had this watch. Some member care, others do not. No further discussion will change anyone’s mind (hence the "Time to take a break"-idea mentioned above;)) All of this could have happened another time and then another dealer or dealers would have been taking the heat for this. This kind of discussion is impossible to have without mentioning specific examples and that way a dealer would have been involved one way or another.

    You should all be able to draw your own conclusions about this (and the dealers also) but we also have to keep in mind that these things can and probably will happen in the future. Most likely, they will not be intended, but as some has posted before, the dealers are usually factory middlemen. They get the info from the factory and forward it to us. As long as they are prepared to respond to these cases and straighten up any misunderstanding when discovered, it should not be a big problem.

    Well...that's all the rambling you'll get from me today...getting late :yawn: and I hope my post has contributed to make things a little bit clearer (probably not, as I wander off too much :D)

  16. Finepics

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    thanks a lot friends

    cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

    I am sorry if you took my reply as a personal attack on you or took offense that I posted in your thread. I apologize if that is the case. Like I said, your thread just happened to be the top one of several threads about where people are. :wounded1:

  17. Finepics

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    :rolleyes: People need to start realizing that both the dealers and other members have other things to attent to than this forum. We all have our real lives tha involve work, businesstrips, sleep, family, etc. There should not bee the need to start XXXX threads about who is where. The members have no obligation to post here that they are going away or for how long they will be gone. Please be a littlebit patient. People come and go and they will answer your PM or e-mail when they have the time to do it ;)

    @panerailord

    This is not in any way a personal attack against you. Your thread only happened to be the top one of people posting "Where is X"

  19. What The H*ll Is Going On Over At Trc?

    in Introduction/Rules/Support

    Posted

    I'm having issues with trc also, I get the hr ad but the rest of the page doesn't load properly and browser just hangs... Think it has something to do with the fade in deal.

    The fading pages is just a javascript and is only on TRC. Doens't make sense when members are also reporting problems here. There is no such script on these pages. But I'll try and disable the script and see if it gets better. Please report back if you have the chance.

  25. Has Anyone Seen This Breitling Replica

    in The Breitling Area

    Posted

    It's pretty recent IIRC. Within the last few weeks. What about the watch was a dead giveaway? What jumped out at you?

    I'm new to this, but want to learn. (Don't worry, I'll use the search function, but I'm curious about what's wrong with this particular watch, since I have it in front of me, and can see it live and in color) :thumbsupsmileyanim:

    I really appreciate all the advice. Thanks again.

    Ok, I'll jump in here and provide you with some answers:

    Like it has been mentioned before, the greatest flaw is that Breitling does not make this model. It is a fantasy model. Just have a look at the bReitling website or other Breitling resources.

    Since this is no real model, there is no way of telling you what particular thing was a dead giveaway (the entire watch is a giveaway)

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