theblueprince

The new DW one is definitely a lot better and for the $30 or whatever he charges it's worth a punt. Make sure you get it through his Ebay shop though. In the last couple months i'm running 50/50 for items he's delivered and items he's not.

Very nice. Was the dial the one that Michael @ tswisst was selling?

Stunned that anyone still gives their watches to Antiqurom to auction after all the well publicised failure of them to pay the owner their money that watches sold for.

Yep, Domi, one of my V72(6) is with him now in fact. Wait 3-4 months but quality service is remembered long after the wait is forgotten.

Nice Silver Tritium service dial for about $1500 on VRM a few days ago you could try to grab. Hands are hard to get though but if you're getting Phong to build it might as well let him use his hands.

Difficult to tell the hand stack but a lot of new gens have this weird mag issue now.

I think a cpl of the VRF posters have hit it on the head. It's an original RC Daytona dial and it's either been - Modified by Singer/Rolex/An approved agent back in the day. OR Modified by ??? who has gotten access to the original print cliche and either used it directly or used modern cad/cam tech to copy it exactly to make themselves a new cliche. Speaking to a friend who uses this modern type of tech to engineer parts to a much higher toleracne than would be required for this operation it would even be possible to make a new cliche with the same "warts 'n' all" errors in the print just from having an oriignal ROC dial to prove from. Obviously this would be a big investment in skill/time/money/tech but when you're talking $500K sales the numbers start to add up.

Very interesting (second) VRF thread on this now open with high res scans and an ani gif. http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1413474784/the+black+ghost+ROC+Paul+Newman+dial%2C+the+pics It's certainly an original Singer dial but as to who changed it to ROC from RC and removed the Daytona......?!? The close ups showing the same slight errors/smudges and minute details on the ROC print are fascinating. That does look like it was made by the same printing cliche.

Crazy prices now. Minh wanted about $2900 for his more "patina'd" one. I passed and thought i'd hold out for a Sigma then had a fit of sense and picked up an early Tritium service dial for $1600. At least you wouldn't lose money on it if kept in same condition.

Gen, i think it might be one that Minh had and offered me a while ago and is now sold, i guess the new owner selling it on. Edit - Same style and model of dial but not the actual same one, Minh's had dirtier sub dials and lume dot damage on different plots.

Hey, sorry i was away for a few days and forgot about this. Tony, your gen bezel above is mk4 service bezel so the 2's and a few other things are different from those on the earlier original bezels that this thread is about. Mine in question is off to join a motley collection of parts to (eventually) become a watch so I will take pics as requested when it returns now.

Yes, the seller is sure it's gen and offered full refund straight away if i had any doubts. He's been in the game a long time and handled many of these. He picked it up a couple of years ago and it's obviously been used/worn so certainly not a newly made after-market item if it is indeed that. I've also now shown it to two of the big name gen Rolex world collectors/dealers who have likely handled 100's of these over decades in the game and they have both said it's gen. Of course anything anyone says with regards to vintage parts without provenance is just opinion. The reality of our hobby is that really the only way any part can 100% be certified gen is if it has unbroken provenance back to Rolex sale or manufacture. Perhaps this is why some people are happy or prefer to use newer service parts to avoid exactly this guessing game with the vintage parts.

Not something i'm too interested in but afaik, from what i've noticed on the discussions etc, floating Cosmo inverted 6 dials like this are one of the rarer varients.

Interesting, it looks the same as Mazzariol's example to me, am seeking further clarification of source/age etc. I am sure if it is not then the seller did not know this.

So please tell us why so we know what to look for and i can return it

Suffice to say i've spent a good few hours looking at pics of these in the last few days. TBH I'm not really fussed if this is not gen, i will get a refund no problem or work something out with the seller as it's clearly a very nice bezel. I also have a gen Mk2 6265 bezel and was already happy with that before this came up. Would obviously like to have a definitive answer though but perhaps that will never be possible. Playing devils advocate, thinking open-mindedly about the process of making these and then what happens to them over time..... From looking at countless pics there are def v small differences between gen bezels of the same mark and the more i think about it the more that seems right. Think back 40+ years when these were made, no CAD/CAM, they were machine made but all those machines for printing, punching out the inserts etc would be setup manually for each batch and possibly operated manually as well. It's practically impossible that everything was exactly the same each time. We also know small variations exist in so many other different old parts. I assume that the reason for the major differences/fonts/set outs of different marks of bezel is either Rolex purposefully changing the design or switching to a different maker for each mark. These watches never sold in great numbers, the initial batches ordered would likely be relatively small. It's highly likely that the makers of the mark 1,2,3 bezels for sure produced many different small batches at different times and that these had very small variations between each batch of the same mark. Now also think how many 40+ year old cases, dials, bracelets, inserts etc you see that have worn and aged in exactly the same way and now look exactly the same (especially under magnification).....pretty close to none i'm sure. Bezels get knocked, banged, levered off, pressed on, pinched, squeezed and generally take a good amount of wear and tear over the years. They were also not as readily replaced during service when suffering small damage as parts are today. Parts used to get repaired, re-brushed, re-edged, re-polished, inserts re-pressed etc. The only caveat would likely be that it still ensured the integrity of the crystal being pressed to the case and water-tightness etc. All in all i'd say the chances of any 2 old bezels like this that have been on watches most of their lives now looking exactly the same in every way especially under high magnification is again pretty close to none.

Yes camera angle makes a difference and the Units Per Hour position def varies slightly acorss gen bezels. On mine there is not any gaps i can see (which the reps do have) but some crud, dust etc whcih we also see on Mazzariol's pic. Now if we're gonna say Mazzariol's reference isn't gen either then i guess it's time we all re-evaluate everything we know! If mine is aftermarket, where has it come from? It's not new, the wear on the underside where it's been pressed against a case for years has partially worn smooth the concentric machning circles (which also are exactly like gen) and old wear and tear on the steel has worn smooth which only comes with actual wear/use over time.

For leather, for men, the only make to consider is Dents. Dents is to gloves what John Lobb is to shoes.

Cheers guys, have been checking against ref pics and pretty sure it's gen now. Happy days

And he's even selling the old Certina he likely got the V72(6) out of as well

I am going to stick my neck out here and say this is a gen Mk1. Brushed finished bezel edge, fonts, print and positioning seem spot on, angle of insert seems spot on - has that nearly concave look i've seen someone else mention. It's def not WatchNY/Demseys, Phong, Swedish guy, DW (old or new) or any other aftermarket I've handled personally. Source - gen vintage dealer/watchmaker with solid references on the gen forums. What says you guys? Thanks

Michael Young and his team do dial repairs now, they have a technique to just repair the damaged area, not refinish the whole dial. The results are the best i've seen.

Sold for $255 ! I guess not everyone bidding knew WatchNY sells them for $180!

The colour of the dial base is lovely but everything about the dial (text) and watch is horrid.

Terrible.