PeteM

But your efforts are priceless ....

An expensive place to visit ;) but a great place to go.... Perfect for writing up your Crimbo list for santa..

Its an easy reply and doesnt really help mate I know... but Be patient... give it a week each time then just try a gentle resend without stating its a resend..if you know what I mean (remember though with Xmas coming up and everyone wanting their watches back before then etc and with modders personal life it may take more time than usual... Are you trying others like Domi or Vac or LeWiz or are you trying to avoid EU and US? If you are worried about customs etc you are welcome to send it to me and I will send it on from UK to within EU...just cover the postage and I am happy to help. that way you could try Domi or Le wiz etc

I never realised it was on twitter... though I never used it myself... I am surprised to see it there... but I guess I am just out of touch I think they made a typo though.. they said RWG.biz when clearly they meant RWG.net...... :)

My word.... you did! If you get a chance mate...could you pic them on with some trousers ...just be interested to see the overall look of them on with strides... As always Mr Gold ...the watch is only to be expected

On another point if you can lume yourself it is still possible to buy Tritium lume.... I sourced some a few years back from a military surplus stock ...

Nice project mate and great build.... There was never a big difference between the 6500 case and the 6502 case indeed some early Cartier cases managed to find their way in to the later series just like some PreV cases got into the PreA series... Apart from the obvious differences mentioned in trying to reshape the current cases back to a 6502 look the main area of difference in the 6502 and 6500 was the lugs and their shape as they joined to the case itself.... It used to be a running comment on Risti about a guy who shall remain nameless who would challenge at GTGs to tell the difference between the 6502 and 6500 case blind folded...most guys could never work out how he did it... but once you see the difference or know where it is.... it is in fact easier to tell by touch rather than by sight especially if on the wrist.. To me what that goes to prove and is basically my point ..is that there is little chance when you have made the main changes that one could tell on the wrist and in fact only an expert could in the hand and others only with a gen next to it... The cases on PreV and the majority of later early ones were hand finished and so small variations can be quite reasonable to expect..indeed most of the later ones were also finished by hand but in the case of the PreVs and early series cases it was more necessary as the quality and use of less than suitable cases meant it was needed...Cartier at the time and indeed OP Pre Cartier..suffered many issues with the cases and the suppliers and many were discarded then because of time and cost issues but were later reused when ideally they would not have been... It is the same with PVD finishes... These do vary... from PreV finish to the PreA and later PVD finish... again because of quality issues, supplier going belly up even different coaters etc etc so again you cannot be exact about PVD finish and look across all Models they do vary... the early PVD models from Cartier were actually blacker than the earlier PreV PVD models... and also poorer qulaity hence why you can see some very black shiny finished gens with signs of really bad wear..mainly because the hardness was poorer and the finish wore quickly and damaged easily.. In addition when considering the shape of cases in early series PAMs ... you can also see gens that have been overpolished and the shape has been changed to detract from the normally accepted differences... it is logical when you think about it as the age of these watches and the popularity of them in use has meant that many had to be refurbished at some time or another and the quality of that refurbishment was not always as good as you would expect or hope and during the polishing stage before the final colur the polishing was over cut and took more away from those details..it is the same with some CGs and levers and pins etc...some may be surprised just how easy it is to remove the steel itself when polsihing and completely change its shape... just a misused sisal wheel and some grey cutting compound could wear any metal shape to nothing.. So if you take that into account as well as the cases being hand finished... nothing can be exact and indeed this makes the case difficult to call out on the wrist... so once that is within the parameters of what is acceptable...then you are left with the dial and hands and crsytal.. Early crystals were also slightly variable so you have the same flexibility in looks as you do with cases... within reason... I am not just referring to AR but also the shape and way the crystal sits in the bezel..these did vary and so did distortion at angles as well... And so you are left with the dial and hands... of course you have a correct sized height (model and series depending) CP flattened and polsihed and the hands which were steel not brass like the PreVs..( you can alwasy tell gen PreV hands because you can see the brass colour around the CP where the hands sit..in some cases it can look like corrosion but its a trick of the eye... there were also other slight differences in thickness/the black coating/shape generally but what really sperated PreV hands from Early series hands was the lume... The hands lume on PreA into A and A/B transitionals was the lume had a slight greeny hue to them so could easily be seen from say a gen PreV hand lume as these were whiter... hand shape did vary because of the same issues as above... using up old stock, changes in supplier etc etc... but basically you would get PreV style or cartier style hands but all with that greeny hue to the lume... The best way to describe it is if you think of how an SL slightly charged but in daylight goes slightly green then thats the same you would see on a PreA etc hands without any charge. You can actually see some Ls and LM models with MN hands because the original plan to produce a new range of Sly models at the time of the take over was scrapped but a lot of those parts were still used where they could be...so again you may see hands from those scrapped models... origianlly 350 of the originall 1000 watch issue.. as you see on the millesimation on the 6500 cases... though that many were never produced... The dials themselves varied for many reasons like above... Cartier and Vendome using old PreV dials with dial type removed and replaced with cartier type but cutouts remained the same on many but as new dials were produced the cutouts became thinner and slightly varied in shape indeed several dial types looked completely different... so you factor in changes and uses of dials at that time and then add in how lume was applied.... they were not all doen at same time and were hand applied by individuals who would mix up the lume as needed...so you would get variations in the quality of the lume and its application and in the look of teh lume... some might be mixed drier others wetter (ie more or less varnish)...this would mean that the sausage lume might fall or stand in the cutout of the dial and indeed can mean that where the markers change in direction the lumer might be accurate or messy and the edges would be thicker and more rounded where the marker should actually be sharp and defined... there were also many other factors that are historically recorded that also underline the fact that many and any variables are possible in these dials and there are no rules in judging one ...within reason.. This leads to the point that nothing is black and white.... you can still see Ristis who really know PAMs since it all started and were even involved themselves in OP finding themselves backtracking on previous statements because something 'different' has popped out of the woodwork so to speak...and is gen...

IMHO there is nothing to compare rep wise with these dials.... some may say its expensive but you need to consider the method and materials of these... They are made to gen specs... If you look at the first pic in Rolf's sales thread you can see that alone is worth the effort.... no rep can reproduce that finish that is created by the galvanic OEM dip or indeed the varnish and berlac ... it is a gorgeous dial.. You can arguably say it has flaws but you can see similar discussions in Risti over gen dials... that is because OP used so many variations and hand finishes at that time in its history that there are no rules...only guidelines and an average accepted look... If you consider say buying an FGD standard dial and then reluming and varnishing etc you are pretty close to the cost of this dial...however what you are not close to is the gen look and finsih and the quality and build of the dial itself... So say 2 of you decide you want one why not get together and take advantage of the discount... or even get a list going and do a group buy... the more the better the deal individually I am sure.. It might be worth the effort in trying for you guys that are interested but looking at cost... it also means that Rolf and Si will move on with more dials but if interest isnt there then why should they go to the extreme effort and little reward to satisfy a craving that has been here since this place started... I aint trying to sell it...for me persoanlly it sells itself... Is it gen? ..no...but is it the closest to gen that there is and ever probably will be then the answer is a definite yes... I have had a few of the dials from Rolf and Si and I cannot tell you just how good they look and feel in the hand and how great they look under the crystal... nothing else touches it.. All you need is this and a few simple to source parts and you have a rep that equals the gen on the wrist and at a fraction of the gen cost if you can get one... I can only applaud the time and effort spent by these guys to produce that.... the research alone is mind blowing let alone finding the professional Swiss dial makers to be prepared to make this and in turn then the logistics of putting it all together and getting this final product... Maybe most guys on here now dont understand or care about this stuff... but if I can say to those ...Give it a try mate...get that feeling of wearing something so damn close to gen and so historic... these dials are what PAMs are and were all about.... it oozes quality.. it aint like just posting a thread and asking a guy here 'whats the best' and 'where to buy it' and then selecting your order...this is another level of this hobby and this dial makes it so much easier to experience and enjoy.. If you take that step ...Then the personal journey involved in putting a watch together like this and getting yourself emmersed in the history of PAMs is so satisfying and enjoyable and the feeling the first time you put that watch on with a gorgeous Vero Squalo or Vero Cuoio original is absolutely out of this world and is what this hobby and enjoyment of PAMs is all about... Give your own project a try no matter what you choose beit using this dial as a starting point or something else.... trust me you wont be disappointed And if you decide you want to try and are serious then if I can help at all I will just ask... (I aint no expert but I have some previous experience of getting PAM projects together and I might know something that might help even if its just support )

It is discussed a few threads down mate and you can see some QC pics.... Overall IMHO its the Noob Makers 177... you wont go far wrong with that...there is only one current version so dont concern yourself with owt else... Though the other decent option if you prefer is the H makers... Just ask any dealer for either one..(Though Puretime only sell the Noob and Cartel only sell H maker) but Sead at Supermirrors or Rochest or Mary would likely do a cheaper deal for the same watch... Just look down at the trusted dealers and go from there mate

TBH I never pay much attention to Rads...but as I recall there was some talk by others and I think Angus that there were some coming...once the case was nailed.. Whether it pams out ( ) ...who knows but it was certainly discussed...and the 'Risti forever' would seem like a good start... The 382 dial looks very good so far...hopefully the case will match the progress...

I cant believe that members are getting features that I dont get...it is so unfair !!

Thats the special edition rep 177 from the noob mate... you have a very special example there... You dont see any in the wild with a TRL like that... As for the movement I agree you shouldnt worry yourself.... assuming you take it off to show some one anyone that knows or understands a detail like the incabloc will know the other tells anyway so it certainly aint worth the money to do it at this time... Congrats mate and I hope its on your wrist soon Now you need to choose some shoes to go on it ...

Dont use that contact method mate.. Go down on left side of home page and select "Contact Us" then fill in the form.... leave all your details and your question etc That link you are using aint great mate... But if you like that and have researched the watch ..then buy it and select the triangle shipping option to Italy via UK. I think Andrew still guarantees delivery or he will replace it so its worth the extra cost with you in Italy..

It is very hard to describe the term cloudy in reference to rep crystals compared to gen and your pic serves no purpose. The cloudiness is relative to the quality of the crystal in terms of it opacity. Most rep crystals have it to varying degrees some more than others but for someone who does not know what to look for or indeed understand the issue itself then pointing it out in a head on pic is not going to show you what it refers to. It is the same when looking at distortion on a rep crystal most guys only think of an example like the Fiddy but all gen crystals have a distinct distortion created by the Plano grinding of the sapphire. The cloudiness appears within that distortion so unlike comparing it to say a dirty window you cannot do it or see it in that sort of pic though it does highlight other issues like cutouts and berlac, hands etc plus as you know already the CP It might help if you checked some threads that discuss these issues in depth and hopefully you might get a chance to see the issue in your hand and be able to judge the various levels of quality associated with rep crystals when compared to gen. That way you maybe able to understand the terms and the discussion rather than just making those sort of attitudinal comments.

Got to agree on that mate.... I find that are just between both and really sit funny on the wrist... I had a gen for a bit..... but the lugs didnt reach around my wrists so the whole thing sat on my wrist and sat so high because of it.... it was like wearing a metal lump on my wrist - comfort wise that is..

LOL! But I am surprised you even noticed mate... I know how you view your art at galleries...generally flying past at 167.1 mph !!

I have liked some of the Hublot and Alinghi collabarations...but this aint one of them.... I dont like any variations of the original Ti diver 4000m and the same with the original 1000m...

There is a 6497-2 on sale on RG at mo... But like everyone has said they are every where as a seperate purchase ...

I agree mate and the same thought hit me but I think the guys that have them already just aint willing to risk them getting damaged.... I can see thier point in a way But why they dont buy one... maybe they just realise they cant meet the detail that we would look for in these or maybe they can but the cost and margins wouldnt be great for them when they have better options...

All the proof/eveidence from the makers case maker is that it is the same bronze alloy as gen...CuSn8 So patina here we come

The name is vaguely familiar mate but it isnt one that is currently a trusted dealer here and I cant say I have seen him in any of the other trusted dealers lists on other forums.. So I imagine he has gone or renamed.... what was his first name? (not dealer name) But probably best to start again mate if its just a new rep you are after.... Unless you are chasing him for child support ..

In the past i found it cheaper to buy watches with the movements I want and part them out...I cant say I have done it with a 7750..only 7753s etc thats because if I need one I would contact a modder or watchsmith here or on the forums as they generally have many laying about and will send you a serviced one or you can send them watch for fitting etc... depending where you are depends on who to contact.... But as for economics mate... I wouldnt agree mate...it is worth getting it serviced rather than just replacing as you can end up with the same problem a fews months down the line with the replacement...the A7750 is a very robust movement if looked after...and also if you swap a few of the more used parts with ETA parts..so a service may be a big initial outlay but it will pay you back in long term compared to just replacing... and most importantly it allows you to retrieve more of you initail costs when you come to sell it...

LOL ! No joy! Turtles are away this week on a tour of renaissance art in Europe....

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