thermalboyz

Yeah, two are ROO but the main thing i want to point out is the GEN FC is chipping away. No matter which model of AP it is as long as it's made from FC>

having some fun today

Update 20.07.16 Looking on some Gen forum regarding AP 44 FC. Found out that some of the GEN FC case edges been soft and flaked off. Pictures below. AP had improved their FC manufacturing process but still don't know how's the quality of the REP FC manufacturing quality. So word of advise, wear it carefully and report back here if your's FC did flaked off. Original GEN thread here >>>> http://50.30.45.116/showthread.php?t=424302

Note : I've checked online about the no "1" and seems like in this comparison picture the Gen is flawed. It should be the same like the rep version and I do not know why the "1" is like that in this picture. Sent from my pigeon

welcome, my pleasure.

Thanks, I posted elsewhere but also thinking it will benefit here as well.

IWC Pilot watch 3777-04 - GEN vs V6 vs ZF Comparison Following comparison are credited to author from Lingmuwatch . IWC Pilot 3777-04 need no introduction as a popular pilot watch among pilot enthusiast. Also with famous ETA 7750 movement in place is a bonus too if anyone wanted to swap to an ETA. Lets get start for the comparison between GEN vs V6 vs ZF Dimension 43 mm Thickness 15 mm Bezel Polished 316L stainless steel Watchcase 1:1 Solid 316L stainless steel case with anti-magnetic soft-iron inner case Dial Superlumed dial and hands (lumed with genuine Super-LumiNova C1) Strap High Quality 316L Stainless Steel bracelet Crystal Sapphire Crystal Glass with Double AR Coated (Swiss Standard) Back Case Solid Caseback with Detail Engraving Movement Swiss ETA 7750 automatic chronograph movement at 28800 vph with working regulator Function Hours, Minutes, Sub-Seconds, Day & Date Display Other Feature Water Resistance 10ATM (SEE GUIDANCE BELOW) General Impression In general both factory did a great job on this 3777-04 model. It looks very similar in terms of Case, Dial, AR, print, sub-dial etc. Dial : As you can see the blue tint on the crystal is an AR coating which same as GEN. The dial and sub-dial is in black colour. Sub-dial : Concentric circle present on V6 and ZF, number on sub-dial in GEN looks thinner than the REP. Number and Index printed are quite good in general. Hands : Sec and Min hands on V6 and ZF has bent inwards like the GEN. V6 triangle @ 12 looks stands out more than the GEN. otherwise both factory did a great job on Hands. Date : From the Font point of view, it's really spot on of the Days and Date. However, in picture below the Number "1" especially is NOT the same to GEN. Date frame window V6 looks closer to GEN as it has a deeper cut than ZF. LOGO/Fonts & Sub-dial : Sec @ 9 colour is the same but Font on both factory looks a bit bolder than the GEN. In general the GEN sub-dial print is more fine and details. Case : Case thickness on both V6 and ZF are slightly thicker than the GEN. Brushing on GEN is finer and and better looking. Crown / Pushers : Ignore the blue sticker on both REP as they are for protection purposes for scratches and can be taken off. In general pushers looks very similar to GEN. Crown wise V6 looks closer to GEN but still not as fine as GEN in details. ZF crown looks very poorly engraved as some of the logo/ words not stand out like the GEN. Back Case : GEN engraving on back case as always very fine and deep. V6 is Deep but not fine enough and ZF is not deep and too fine in fonts (especially spacing between words). Inside of the casing V6 has 3 screw fixer to the mid-case but ZF only has one, which means V6 is better holding the movement to the case than ZF. Inner case details for the GEN is not available and risky to scratches. Movement pretty much same as both factory uses A7750 and GEN used ETA / VX 7750 so no need to compare. Bracelet : Bracelet brush of both factory are quite nicely made and very similar to GEN. The only tell on bracelet is the "IWC" on clasp, GEN is deep and fine and both factory are not to that standard. TIPS: Little tips of how to remove the bracelet. TIPs on using 7750. 1) Between 8pm - 3am, do not adjust Date and Day. 2) Don't often use the Chrono function (If not an ETA) and use it properly. Start > Stop > Reset. 3) When adjusting Day/ Date or Hour / min, pull crown to the correct position gently. SUMMARY : As summary, I think both factory has it plus and minus. Both factory did a great job on this Pilot model 3777 and it's an 7750 movement so it is easy replaceable / swap to ETA. Well, swapping still not that simple as need a watchsmith to fit the sec hand which is 0.05mm difference.

IWC Big Pilot 5009 - GEN vs REP Comparison IWC comes back with a new limited edition, honoring one of its favorite ambassadors (unfortunately not with us anymore), Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, pilot and writer, and its most famous character, ‘le Petit Prince’. Using the same concept as several other editions of the Pilot collection, it is now the Big Pilot that is paying tribute to one of the most classical books of all time. Please welcome the IWC Big Pilot Watch Edition ‘Le Petit Prince’. Several other watches of the Pilot collection had been used to serve as a tribute to Antoine de Saint-Exupéry and ‘Le Petit Prince’. Specifications Mechanical movement Calibre 51111 Pellaton automatic winding system 7-day power reserve when fully wound Power reserve display Date display Central hacking seconds Glucydur®* beryllium alloy balance Breguet spring Screw-in crown Limited to 1,000 watches Special engraving featuring the little prince and inscription “IWC ∙ LE PETIT PRINCE ∙ ONE OUT OF 1000” on case back. Case and folding clasp in stainless steel, midnight blue dial, rhodium-plated hands and indices, coated with Super-LumiNova®*, brown calfskin strap with quilted stitching Glass: sapphire, convex, antireflective coating on both sides, withstands drops in air pressure Case diameter 46mm, Case height 16mm, Water resistance 6 bar Credit to author from Lingmuwatch General Impression : Le Petit Prince (5009-08) From the dial, the overall configuration of the two watch basically look the same. Genuine hands thinner and have a bit of curvature, ZF at this point engraved techniques quite strong, are basically the same axis with the genuine. Dial Logo / Colour : Then compare the two trademark / Logo of the watch, shown ZF plant still have room of improvement. Gen IWC logo shown slightly bold than ZF although not that obvious from naked eyes, but still point it out in this comparison. Sunbrust effect and blue is very close to GEN but the sub-dial not quite as it looks bit more shiny than the GEN sub-dial. Crystal : Genuine watch used an exquisite style domed sapphire crystal glass, with double-sided anti-glare (AR) treatment for translucent clear view, rounded at the edges of the arc reveals elegant retro temperament. ZF crystal in the appearance looks very close to the Gen. Dial : The numerical / index on the dial is our main focus here, the GEN index boarder has some metal reflection effect where ZF index making are very close to the GEN too. Hands : Perfect! To point it out the second hand on GEN and REP is bended inwards to the dial (So it's not a defects) It is because of the curvature of the crystal so that the second hand won't get stuck at the end of the crystal. Like pilot and Portuguese the hands is bent. Index @ 12 : Very well made from ZF. LUME : Luminous effect due to differences in the extent of absorption of light, GEN color lighter brighter. But ZF luminous hands seems not very uniform, which can be seen as a big difference. Crown : GEN crown with a unique design and large design brings comfort. ZF crown look consistent with the GEN, especially difficult to see the difference from naked eye. In high magnification the GEN crown has deeper curve than ZF plant , very hard to see but you can feel the differences. Crown Logo : GEN is one piece crown but ZF looks like the logo is stick on plate and it's sit deeper inside. Case : Carefully observed from the side, ZF has slightly thicker than the GEN, the outer periphery of the metal finishing brush process is very delicate, almost exactly the same with the genuine. Back Case : Next we focus on the back cover of this watch - "the little prince". Despite engraved items back cover design is still impressive, but the matt finished inside the circle still not up to the GEN standard. GEN matt finished looks smooth but ZF still need to improve it's matt finish. Inside Back case : Huge difference here where GEN is smooth but ZF had a circle dip in the middle. Finishing also look different. Back case engraving : GEN Font is slightly bolder than zf, but this is harmless, only notice when open the back cover. Movement : Personally I think ZF has done a great job on it's movement rotor and deco. From the movement deco plate to the rotor, ZF has done a good job on this with engraving. Although it a closed back watch and this shown ZF had put effort into every details. Deployant : The differences inside the clasp is still relatively small, GEN IWC trademark engraved on clasp is deeper and ZF slightly shallow. Leather Band : This watch with a brown calfskin strap reveal a tough industrial style genuine calf leather strap bring elegant to the watch and not compromised comfortable wearing feel. ZF factory engraved bracelet also achieve the same effect, very close to GEN. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ General Impression : Big Pilot Black (5009-01) Dial : The picture below you will find the details of the work is good, the PR colour (RED) in sub-dial has different red. Calendar font color bit whiter on GEN (background colour is the same) and date window size was done quite perfect too. PR hand is quite good too and it just the pinion is slightly large look on the ZF model. Index / Number : Number and index quite spot on. Only the "Swiss Made" at the bottom of date is thinner on the REP. (5009-01 model does not have the metal look frame outside the boundary of the Number like the LPP) Hands : Hands are pretty spot on too, the length is perfect as you can see from the pictures below in different angle. Crown : Crown groove is spot-on, I've count them and it's the same. Crown logo is a bit sunken on the REP but engraving are pretty well made. Side view : Only small difference if anyone can spot it here. It's the curvature of the lug on the REP is slightly thicker. Otherwise, brushing and finishing is perfect. Back Case : Fonts on the GEN is thicker and deeper engraved. On the back of the Back case it have engraving too and it's the same as the LPP version. Movement comparison is the same as LPP version. (Pictures without RED wording represent the REP. Deployant : GEN engraved finer and deeper compare to the REP. The REP engraving also looks a bit flat to me. Back of the deployant is an obvious difference to spot. Conclusion : LPP A very well made pieces from ZF, Blue sunbrust effect with real PR is the main buying point. However, it has a few minor discrepancies between them where ZF still have room for improvement. Especially the Sub-dial looking too shiny than the GEN and the matt finished back case. Apart from that other are not to obvious to spot unless you have a GEN beside you to compare with. Black Black version is pretty well made too again very similar to the LLP flaws (Room for improvements). Sub-sial bit shiny, PR red is not the same colour, Crown, back case plus buckle. In general it's pretty spotted on model.

Comparison Audemars Piguet AP ROO 44 Forged Carbon - (Gen vs Rep) No one done this FC 44 review as yet and I found this information on Chinese website and would like to share with you all here. (21/06/16) ALL CREDIT TO LINGMUWATCH Author. Here are bit of basic information and video of Forged Carbon making video. Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore Forged Carbon (26400AU.OO.A002CA.01) Video (How It's Made) : - (First 2 mins) YOUTUBE Video GENERAL : From vision comparison side by side, all parts is in place where it should be, size and dimensions are very close. JF give an impression a bit brighter / whiter, it's because the dial print are slightly wider therefore look more white. DIAL : As discussed previously, GEN dial print is finer and more detail and JF is a bit wide / rough than the GEN. LOGO : In this macro, you can see the Logo and fonts looks pretty close, fonts is the same. Only slight difference of font is REP is bit bolder than the GEN. The square pannel for "Audemars Piguet" on GEN is slight longer than the REP. Therefore REP font has less gaps between alphabets and look bold. LOGO AP on GEN has thinner gap. HANDS : Hands details hardly see any differences between the two. SUB-DIAL : As we can see GEN sub-dial paint are more finer and concentric is more appealing / sharper. REP also done not bad on subdial and concentric but it just to as sharp / fine than GEN. However, these details hardly can be see without a loupe magnifier. DATE : Date frame on GEN has smoother cut around, REP font is bolder than GEN. This is visibly from naked eye. 3D printed date on GEN and REP and quite close on both. AR difference on both GEN and REP. Only thing stands out from the date window is the Index 3 is shorter than GEN, that's because of the datewheel position on the movement. Tachy : GEN font and REP looks very close. Again, GEN slightly sharper. LUME : If we look closer, JF is brighter in general. Looks a bit reverse to the GEN, Index Brighter hands not on the REP. CROWN / PUSHER : Not much differences in general, Pushers seem a bit wider, Logo engraved on GEN looks deeper. LOGO : Logo on GEN is deeper, apart from that it's spot on. REP edges seem a bit sharp tho. SIDE : Because of technology constrain, polishing not as fine as GEN. Slightly more thickness on JF case. On macro, JF has more carbon pattern effect than GEN. MOVEMENT : Movement is the hardest one to 100% copy because technology and budget constrain. From looking on the movement it is a tell tell for someone who know the GEN. However, the movement can't be seen when wearing the watch. CASEBACK : Engraving is bolder compare to GEN. Movement on GEN is finer and more detailed than REP. BUCKLE : Not much differences, GEN is engraved deeper than REP. WEIGHT : Forged carbon is an unique materials, it is very light with total weight of 91.3g. SUMMARY : In summary JF did a great job for this FC 44 ROO but there are still room for improvements on better printing, engraving and polishing. However, if the factory can invest better machine / technology and with enough budget to do so. This will be definitely a SUPER REP (Not including Movement as they've done their best already). Anyway, this is as close as REP can get with 1/40 of the GEN Price. ENJOY!!!

R. I. P. One of the greatest. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2016/jun/04/muhammad-ali-dead-age-74-live-updates Sent from my pigeon

Update : 02/06/2016 Portuguese 5001 / 5007 steps to silence noisy rotor (DIY) 1) Firstly open the case back with friction ball or base back opener 2) you will see there is a tiny metal plate sticked to the middle of the rotor (Red Arrow) 3) Slowly removed it with needle / sharp edge screwdriver then unscrew the middle screw. 4) Take out the rotor, apply silicon (Water proof oil) on the outer area then inner area with moebius 8000 watch oil. Clean it properly ensure no excess and put back the rotor and case back.

Update : 17 April 2016 ZF V3 and YL V6 (5007) model comparison New comparison and still not perfect yet on both factories. Following are the difference highlighted in "GREEN = better" and "RED = worse" compare to the Gen 5007. DIAL : - As summary, ZF dial looks more on 5007 as fonts had changed however the YL still using the 5001 dial with larger fonts. ZF still crooked "1" and YL no crooked. MOVEMENTS : - Movements deco have room for improvements on both factories. In general I think ZF done it better than YL overall however lack of 3D effects on the movement deco and yellow colour plate at the corner of the movement (Gen is white). YL done a bit better on engraving the IWC stamp and wordings on the deco plate and also looks more 3D (Especially the 2 barrel wheels area) but the middle small wheel are not connecting the two barrel wheel. SUMMARY : - You make your own judgments on which one to purchase as I've pointed out the differences. Hope ZF and YL can refine the following that I've pointed out. ZF V3 backplate : (14/05/16)

Welcome, some interesting pieces there. Sent from my pigeon

Update : 17 April 2016 ZF V3 and YL V6 (5007) model comparison

Me too, double post in each post. Sent from my pigeon

Em, I think u better check also on Repgeek and RWI. Also, might need to check on etsy.com too. Sent from my pigeon

Thanks guys, I've been doing the comparison on the other forum since 5001 came out and updated it from time to time. So i think people will benefit here as well so I copy the content over. Enjoy!

History of the REP IWC Portuguese 7 Days 5001: In 2008 the REP Maker came out with the first generation of IWC Portuguese 7 Days (Ref : 5001). This version was not even close to the GEN 5001 as the Sub-dial spacing was too close, sunken date, the No: 4, Movements plate, prints, etc etc etc. After 7 years of waiting, in AUG 2015 ZF and YL join forces to research and developed a new movement which elevate the REP IWC 5001 to another level. They bought GEN and spent many months doing research to make the best IWC 5001 and finally they've succeeded. This blows a lots of people mind on how possible this 7 days movement can be replicated because this movements was build in-house by IWC and have taken watchmaker many years of research and study. Here you go, year 2015 is the year of IWC and not only the 5001 but also other great IWC rep from ZF and YL. By having this movement repped, it opens up lots of opportunities on IWC model such as Annual Calendar (IW5035). Following are the first model from 2008 : IWC 7 Days (5001) details specifications : - YL and ZF are making these, same movement. YL Released it first, ZF will take times to perfect it. ETA OCT 15 PR = 3 Days (Working PR Subdial) (72 hrs - been tested and confirmed by many owners) Price est : $350 Size : 42mm x 14mm Strap : 22/18mm Length : 135/55mm (deployant) Movement is collaboration of YL and ZF (Base on Asian 23J automatic movement) Spare Parts might not be available Low production capacity Model : White/Gold, Laureus, White/Blue, Black/Black, Ardoise, Panda. Comparison ZF and YL 50 01 These info are gathered from Forums, users and personal findings online. I will update this table from time to time when new information available. Credit to all contributors. PM me if you have any info to add regarding this specific IWC 5001 Comparison (ZF and YL) ZFYLPRODial Colour – Yellowish (Same like GEN) Rotor – Better looking Case – Same dimension to Gen Printing – Wording on ZF looks close to GenHands – Better finish Case – Maybe on V3unknownSubdial – more reflective Numerical Crook (misaligned) Fonts - IWC Schaffhausen (not same as 5001) but maybe same as 5007 Price – ZF more expensive Crown – Pushed in fullySubdial – less reflective Numerical Crook (misaligned) Fonts - IWC Schaffhausen (not same as 5001) but maybe same as 5007 Price – YL Cheaper Crown – Cannot pushed in fullyCONRotor movement noisy Hands – Not as good as YLDial colour – too White Rotor – different than Gen Rotor movement noisy Crown – Cannot pushed in fully Printing – Not as good as ZFSTRAPS DETAILS : - (Credit to GenTLe (RWG)) Many was asking if Curved End strap can be installed in 5001 like in 5007 model. Yes, they can but you will find a big gap when using curved end strap because 5007 have closer lug holes to the case than 5001. (comparison below, straight vs curved strap) You decide which one best suite you! ZF & YL NEW MOVEMENT DECORATION (27/11/15) Comparison of new movement : - (ZF Estimate End of DEC out) YL already out - called V4. ZF new movement deco is closer to Gen. There are differences between the two new plate if you look closely. YL movement decoZF movement deco YL movement deco Sorry, this is YL V5!! (Not V4) - same as everyone, can't keep up with YL anymore.GEN vs ZF V2 Comparison : - ZF V2 has removed the centre movement (circle in RED) and improve the whole plate to mimic the gen. In Red in what improvement in ZF V2.This bit of plate is very close to GEN includes the marking.Top movement compare : - 1) Added IWC marking 2) Correct side with markings 3) Fixed escapement wheel beneath the longitudinal structure of the splint screw (still slightly different than Gen but lots of correction been made) 4) Copper plate fixing similar to GenBottom movement compare : - 1) 3 wheels alignment changed, closer to Gen. 2) Marking on the side similar to Gen. 3) Copper bit fixing plate location similar to Gen. Link = Dial Measurements from Master DOMI (credit to Sharrkey)Colour Difference : Rotor Difference : Fonts Details : There are two version of Gen 7 Days (5001 - Pre 2014 and 5007 - Post 2014) I won't get into comparison between the two but what I want to point out was the Fonts of these two was different. Therefore I think ZF and YL are more on the 5001 dial/ fonts.(Credit to rhc22, sub007 and Ruski91)Black Dial Comparison : (Credit to diaby2afc)Gen dial - more glossy Rep dial - more matte subdials: rep is more reflectiveLaureus GEN vs ZF vs YL Note: Not all GEN are pointing at 12 O'clock direction so this is just a REF. Most complete comparison of Laureus, credit to 小陳玩复刻 Movement Details : ETA uses a type of ball bearing automatic disc on the gear structure, the gear structure is currently used by the vast majority of the watch, the durability of this structure is very positive, but not very on gear efficiency. Seiko magic Lever is a hook jaw which cannot be compared. So - On Gen, more than 10 hours to be worn over to get to full wind, and REP i guess it takes more than 20 hours of normal wear to fully wind. Power Reserve on REP is actual 72 hrs and Gen is 168 hrs. Movement type engraved on GEN is 51011，but on REP is 61016. Gen beat rate is 21600 and REP beat rate is 28800 (Better!!!). Movements research reference based on Panerai P.3000 case, by China made 23J with left sub-dial for Sec and Right for the PR (Power Reserve indicator), polished to the details to mimic 1:1 Gen.5001 Movement from the front looks like 7750, back looks like ST25 (based on the big and small wheel). Looking at automatic mechanism plate, (similar to 2824) Movement Reliability : Case Comparison : Deployant/ Clasp : (Credit to : vingsam) For Regulating : Use these two bitsCrown Details : Gen have about 0.5mm Gap Blue hands investigation : Hands color check, you can see at the back of the hands is purple color but after scratch off the hands inside is metal. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------10/01/2016 - NEW Version Comparison (Gen vs ZF v2 vs YL v5) - Latest model comparison!!! Credit to 万嘉名品 1. LOGO Comparison - The fonts are doing well from the 3D printing. 3D printing font technique make the print raised. GEN IWC used 3D printing technique.2. Cannon Pinions3. Hour Hand Comparison - Gen is flat, ZF little curved, YL lot curved4. Minutes Hand compare - Gen Min slight curved.5. PR subdial compare - all have concentric circle, ZF PR hand slightly longer.6. Sec Subdial comparison - Gen subdial and hands are even (In middle), ZF hands slightly longer, YL at the outer ring.7. Date comparison - YL print bit rough, ZF and YL 3D Print “AUTOMATIC" and "SWISS MADE" is well made. 8. Date Print Compare - ZF and YL not have 3D Printed Date.9. Index and Numerical - there are two Gen dial (One is a bit dirty) , ZF and YL Edging is alright but different in colour, ZF bit darker, YL bit lighter. GEN bottom is white, ZF and YL bottom both blue.10. Movements Comparison ROTOR11. Movements comparison - Many people not keen on new movements and don't know about it. Today this movement have a name and called Dandong c.61016. because it was produced in Dandong. Movements LOGO, deco / plate and stamp of ZF and YL really good, Shock resistant part on ZF looks a bit different. Note the difference of the Barrel of ZF V2 and new YL V5, ZF did not cover Barrel with plate but YL did. These are the changes YL did until the latest version they called Version 5 (V5).

Very good review and appreciate your expert comments. Thanks Sent from my pigeon

mostly 5001 ZF V1 and V2 have crooked "10" and date misaligned. But I manage to get one with date centered and going to send to watchsmith to see if the 10 can be fixed. The back of the dial look like this. Expert please advise if possible to straighten the numerical.

Followed!! nice thread and interesting to find out how reliable is that hybrid movement.

3777 on 6.5" wrist.

Interesting to know as well so that no one get this kinda dispute and PP locked. Take care Micky, will be in touch with you soon once your backlog been fulfilled.

+1000. I think Micky deserve an explanation as he had lots going on these few months and for sure not intentional / purposely violate any Rules. Plus I don't see providing update to member consider as self-promoting.

Great to hear that Micky. Safe journey!