freddy333

My hands-on experience with clones is limited to A4130s (see my Big Kahuna & Golden Cuckoo threads for details). Sorry.

Looks good! Have you peered into the case to view the movement? I would love to see some macros of that.

Overall, I think it looks reasonable, but the yellow 'patina' is an obvious tell. It is very difficult for a factory to produce a realistic patina. If the dial is offered with whiter lume, I would opt for that. While rare, I still occasionally see gen Subs of the period with whitish lume. So you could pull that off if the rest of the dial, watch & you look the part. Faking patina is definitely more ART than science. It requires ALOT of knowledge, experience, testingtestingtesting & hand-work to produce a 'natural' looking result. For a factory produced dial, I think it looks good. But I doubt it will fool a serious collector. Here is a macro shot of the lume on 1 of my gen Sub dials for comparison --

Shortly after I installed the gen balance, I also replaced the rotor, which includes the bearing. The 1st pic is of the Big Kahuna's original A4130 rotor/bearing. The 2nd pic is the gen 4130 rotor/bearing. As you can see, both 4130 rotors contain 7 ball bearings. The only difference between the rotor bearings is that the tiny tabs that retain the bearing race (where the balls circulate) is more visible on the gen when viewed under magnification. Other than that, I do not see much difference other than the slightly smoother finish on the gen metal surfaces. But, unless you see them side by side, I doubt you could tell the difference anyway. However, the new 4131 contains what Rolex calls an 'optimized' rotor/bearing, which contains 40 or so ball bearings & a different bearing race. Alot of people, who have only seen the current 4131 rotor bearing, think the A4130's rotor bearing must be an 'obvious tell' of fakery because it has only 7 ball bearings, unaware that that is actually correct for the 4130; only the current (4131) movement has the 'optimized' rotor/bearing. As to the A4130's rotor being 'loud' -- that has not been my experience. Certainly, in comparison with the old secs @ 6 7750 Daytonas, the A4130 is nearly gen quiet. Shaking an A4130 will not give you away like some of the old 7750s often did. Only with your ear right up to the caseback can you hear a difference between the A4130's spinning rotor & the gen's (& the subtle difference may simply be due to a lack of proper oiling by the factory). Unless you plan to install a display caseback (as I did), I would not worry about the A4130's rotor/bearing.

Because Explorers are relatively simple designs, a number of reps have been able to clone them for a number of years. The difficult part is cloning the 3285, both visually & functionally. I did not see much in that thread detailing the movement.

Click me Separately, I also found this on AliExpress -- Clean factory Noob Super 4130 movement Automatic Watch Movement 3.6.9 Chronogrpah For Asian 4130 Mechnical 116520 116500

Case & dial look good, but getting a clone Caliber 3285 to look & function exactly like the gen is the key. Can you post macro pics of both sides of the movement?

There are reasons to go the gen route -- you lack the skills (or interest) to fix the few minor flaws in the clones (& they bother you), you want to be able to have your watch serviced by a pro with a parts account, you want to post macro pics of your watch on the gen forums, you have the time/money to wait & pay the price of admission, having 'the real thing' is important to you or you are an investor seeking to profit from your Rolex. There may be more, but those come to mind as rational reasons to go gen.

For anyone curious about or considering the purchase of a 4130-clone-powered 1165xx Daytona -- The Big Kahuna continues to maintain its 1 sec/day regularity & continues to spellbind me with its beauty & reliability. Simply incredible for any mechanical watch, let alone a fake Rolex. As I have mentioned previously, these things ARE expensive -- no getting around that -- but they are an incredible value considering the additional cost, time/effort & games required in order to acquire the gen alternative.

Unfortunately, all of your pic links are broken, but here are a few of my DW frankens (all V72-powered) -- I think you just had to understand that English was not his default language & he used translation software for most of his communications. Because of this, if you did not keep things simple, misunderstandings were possible. That is why so many people had problems dealing with him. I did so much business with DW that we became friends & we had plans to meet in China when I was there to visit with my girlfriend's family. Unfortunately, due to scheduling issues, we were unable to meet. Based on my experience, I found DW to be quite honest, reasonable & bright. I think there was a thread many years ago that discussed this (including comments from DW) that you may be able to find with the RWG search. Whatever the case, I think many would agree that properly constructed Daytonas based on DW parts were classics, including Goldie in the pic above (which was a 1 of a kind custom case that DW designed for me -- without charge!).

If you can decase the movement, simply blow on the hand & see if it spins. If it does, then the hand's joint is weak/loose. If it remains in position, then there may be a wheel missing teeth or severely misaligned with an adjoining wheel. Good luck.

Most likely, the arm wand is loose on its stem tube. A common problem with reps. I posted a howto thread about this many years ago that you may be able to locate via the search. Either replace the hand, use a TINY bit of epoxy to cement the underside of the joint between the horizontal arm wand & its vertical stem tube, or ask a competent local watchmaker to fix it (he will remove & tighten the loose hand joint with a couple of light taps from a concave staking tool).

I have never had the various Asian 413x movements in front of me to do a comparison, so I cannot answer your question. My guess is that no one else on RWG has either. However, I am fairly certain that someone on RWI, the most popular rep site, probably has such a comparison.

Click me

Ending my work week still wearing The Big Kahuna --

In hell, Apple watches are required.

Better red than dead --

I think the growth of Rolex misinformation/disinformation has simply matched the growth of Rolex 'collectors', especially those of the younger generation, who, just 10 years ago, viewed Rolexes as "old men's watches" & opted for Dick Tracy (ie, Apple) watches over mechanicals. Like just about everything else today, truth has been eclipsed by fashion (parading as truth by those who have been trained to comply to the fashionistas). But what irks me more than the 'Millenary, Bobs Watches, Brodinkee' clutter is the growth of Indian- & Spanish-language spam that litters google, youtube & other previously useful sources for info/data/pics/vids, all of which have little to do with Rolex & nearly always using the name as click-bait. Not to turn this thread into a political rant, but, unless AI can change the Titanic's destiny, I think the days of the internet as a reliable source of Rolex knowledge may be behind us.

google watchmakers in your city & phone to see if they work on reps. I think you will find that many do. You might also ask for references to be sure they are not charlatans.

Some very nice metal, gentlemen. Working at home today with my Aryan 'Master

Welcome back. Sadly, we lost Bob (Nanuq) recently. There may be others, but I only recently returned myself, so I am not really up on the social aspects of RWG.

For reference - 5513 Comex with gen dial