archibald

The Sub experts could probably answer more fully, but my guess is that they won't offer the "good" cases w/ 2892 because then nobody would shell out 2 grand on the ones with old 3035's...

These 2 latest-greatest-most-perfect-sub/SD threads are interesting reads. It's interesting that a gray area guy like WM9 had the cojones to do what I've always expected one of our smaller, hungrier dealers to to--fire up a CNC shop and try to do a small run of excellent sub cases. That's too bad because someone over in china who's less greedy than WM9 could make a tidy little sum putting out a reasonably priced run of 2892 (or even 2892 lite) subs with a CNCed case, decent aftermarket inset, and noobmariner dials and bracelets, even if the only buyers are on the forums. The other interesting thing is that it should now be clear to even the most delusionally optimistic among us that we're never going to see a sub or SD that approaches 1:1 until the people that make these things become convinced that folks will shell out the dough for 2892 powered versions. Sadly, I don't see that happening either--most sane people (unlike us) would rather plunk down a Franklin for a Noobmariner-- which will fool everyone on the planet who doesn't know about a 1/2 mm too low crown or .75mm too shallow rehaut, which is to say almost everyone on earth. My only comment on WM9's piece is that anyone who plunks down 1/4 the value of a used gen on a 2836 powered rep is a brave dude indeed

You Rollie heads left me in the dust w/ this thread. I'm not surprised they tried and tried to make things work w/ a 2836 since that's how they operate. And I also understand why they're not offering the 3035 case w/a 2892 for the time being. Is the final consensus that they insisted on using a 2836 and f'd up the good case in the process?

Thanks for th link! I've been looking for this one forever!! http://www.hemalhemsat.com/Shop/Auctions/A...ctionId=3658508

As a cheapskate, I'm always looking at the price/quality ratio. 9 times out 10 reps come out on top when you look at things that way. But there are a handful of gens that you can say with a traight face are worth spending 4 or 5 grand on--JLC's & the manufacture-powered Chopards ,for example. I'd have no qualms about buying one of those every time I could dig up the cash, but my 2 favorite watches--Panerai and Muller--I'd never touch in gen form unless I found one way under market value.

I love "gay watch"topics almost as much as the "what wacth was on that TV show topics." Therefore I will combine them: Want to see the highest concentration of ultra-masculine Panerai watches on Television? Check out the designers on HGTV. Of course I only watch HGTV because my WIFE does because, like Larry Craig, I have never been gay.

I paid $425 shipped for my MBK version--I gotta say, a screw-down crown, top quality fit and finish, and not having to worry about the movement is worth every penny of $140.

I'm not sure avitt owns the really, really legendary version. His crown is slightly different from the famed "honpo" version (they stopped producing the "legendary" version because ,like many other legendary reps, it becan as a custom run for watchhonpo and then the factory that custom-produced did a few additional runs, making some changes along the way--to the crown and to the caseback primarily). I would have to see a side view of the case and a closeup of the L's in MULLER to be absolutely certain. Eddie used to say that all of the 2892 powered versions produced after honpo's original run used 2892 copy movements, but this seems not to be the case. Some were probably made but I have seen several post-honpo conq's w/ swiss 2892's inside. To answer your question, there are several 2824 versions. They made a bunch of them using the same case, crown, and dial as the 2892 version, changing only the movement and throwing on some shitty bracelet the probably sourced from some cheap asian-powered version. That's the one you want, w/ the black "model 8005" dial, The bad news is that they pop up once in a blue moon and last about 10 minutes in the trading area. None of the FM rep bracelets are any good, BTW...Always put your FM's on straps.

I've owned probably every Muller rep made--including more than a few $40 specials. My top 5, accuracy wise, are: 1) Solid 18K Casablanca--flawless, except the buckle should have "750" and "FM" engraved on the inside. 2)2892 Conquistador, Crown slightly off & if you opt for the white dial you'll have to find darker hands or have The Zigmeister paint yours as per Kruzer00's above. 3)Long Island and Curvex Crazy Hours--As close to 1:1 as a rep can get except the OEM was never made in steel. If they ever make another gold FM rep, this is the one to do. 4)1200 Long Island Crazy Color Dreams. Another near 1:1 rep of the only CH made in steel. There's a small flaw on the dial, but if you can still find this piece and can score an OEM dial, move this rep to the #1 spot. 5)2852 steel Casablanca--same problem w/ the hands, which are blue no matter the dial color, as the Conquistador.

Wait, the Nobel returns are not in from Florida...there's still hope for pesticide huggers around the globe!

I think that thread refers to the new copy of the older "panerai panerai panerai" engraved version of PAM movement.

ON EDIT: The rose gold in our reps is mostly some kind of gold plating and varies in quaity from the OK to the "what, is this copper spray paint or something?" I do think PVD gold will be the standard before too long, though, a costs come down. It'll be a tough search, but I remember a thread a while back in which a dealer posted that a rep was PVD but that it was the only one he knew about...can't remember which rep it was. PVD would be far and away the best option since they could theoretically copy any shade of the wide vcariety of red/pink/rose gold blends gen manufactuers use. Gold plated watches have such a miniscule amount of gold that PVD's zero gold content makes no difference at all value-wise. In fact, the PVD watch would be worth more IMO because it would probably be more accurate and durable.

I use the lowest-price-I've-seen-a-gen-sell-at method, which brings my total "what if" price to $80,000 (with the 7 reps costing a total of 11 grand including labor, parts, and straps) thanks to the fact that my rep collection consists of 2 Mullers, a Nautilus, an Overseas, an in-progress 18k frankentona, a DSRD, and 2 "rare" PAMs. I've also dumped 15k into 4 gens. And you guys don't want to know what I've spent on reps and straps I've either sold or given away over 4 years of collecting...

A strong possibility, but I always go with the simplest possible explanation, which is that these reps sell quickly quickly enough at insane prices w/o any justification other than that they're indistinguisgable from the gens to 99.9% of the population and cost 1/8 to 1/4 as much; and that announcing what's coming too far in advance can only cause problems--from competitors, from gen manufacturers, etc. With respect to the prices, I've always wondered just how much power we forum denizens have--if the majority of us just said "no f'n way I'm paying $800 for an asian 7750 powered stee case/rubber strap watch" would prices drop, or would the factories and dealers continue along their merry way selling at huge markups in other markets?

It would be worth about 40% of retail, $250, if it had a new OEM strap. I think offering him $200 is doing him a huge favor. If you don't want it, and he's willing to sell as is for $175, I'm in.

Great read...thankls for posting! High end auctions have been f'd up for a long time--isn't like 1/2 of Christies' staff in jail at the moment?--but I only see something really, really corrupt by auction-house standards if the watch companies are producing ALL the bids or if the top individual collector's bid was a fraction of theirs...like $40,000 for the 300k Omega. The article is unclear on that. BTW, this practice is common in all high end collectibles--the Wine Spectator had a big piece on Winemaker's doing the same thing--increasing the cachet of their brands by pumping up acution values of their older vintages at auctions...then sending out Press releases so the press touts how valuable their wines will eventually become.

In late 05 I sold off 15 low-medium end reps to buy my first gen, and am happy I did. I now have a small collection of great reps and mid level gens--6 high-end reps and 1 gen PAM, a steel JLC, a Chopard dive watch, and a Tag Monaco. But be careful which gen you buy. Reps are Rep quality, but let's face it, so are some gens: I've owned 2 gen pams and am completely underwhelmed by the difference between high end reps and my former 000. My 86 fares better in comparison, thanks to top-quality brushing and dial work on the gen, but is there $3500 worth of difference...no f'n way. On the other hand I have a Master Hometime that no rep and few gens of any price can ever touch quality-wise, which cost me $200 more new than my used 086. Bottom line, I'm happy w/ my decision selling all but my best 4 or 5 reps, buying a top-value 5k gen, and then continuing to buying only a very few top quality reps and one 5-6k gen per year, used or new.

Nope...Dun get fooled agin. The internet requires that we be our own news editors. Toward that purpose I would add: 101. The American Thinker Website. Top 100 list only includes false reporting by the "librul" media victimizing corporations, the CIA, Isreal and other Republican donors/special interests. Author and publisher Admin Lifeson functions regularly as small-time GOP/ultra right operative and surrogate. Since he was a college professor for many years he is sometimes used by Rush Limbaugh to add some sort of academic to whatever ultra-right crackpot idea du jour. A top media lies list without Judith Miller's repeating Cheney's proven lies verbatim in the NYT's, without a single fabricated "I-invented-the-Internet" storyabout Gore, without Susan "steno" Schmidt's operating as Ken Starr's personal PR shop in the Washington Post? 'Nough Said. The biigest timewaster of all time? You bet. For "Fair and Balanced"-ness here is the liberal equivalent: www.mediamatters.org

For the nanosecond it registers in my noggin, I just chalk them up as a member of the great silent crappy-dressing majority. A watch is as much as an article of clothing as a tie or belt, IMO, in addition to a tool to tell the time. I'm trying to think of someone I know who I think is a good dresser who doesn't also wear a watch, and I can't.

I watched the whole thing, since my eighth grader was assigned to watch for History. My general impression that Burns has managed to a 12 hour long slightly above average Hisrtory Channel program. I thought the conceit of chosing a few towns was strained and obvious (Mobile for the African American "angle," Sacramento so he could talk about the internment camps, Minnesota was, I'd bet, so he could iinterview a fellow writer (Samuel Hynes is a well known professor @ Princeton, although Burns didn't mention that) as it was to "represent" the heartland. For an 8th grader it was very well done--not-too in depth, lots of eye candy (or quality kills, as my sone would say) but for anyone who's watched the History Channel or TLC a couple times, sort of run of the mill.

But doesn't hurt his ability to be elected, as the "statesman" currently holding the job proves every time he opens his pie hole.

So I'm reading RWG and Jumbie says stop writing like TTK and I say OK fine, but I have to write like someone, someone other than me. So who are you going to write like, Jumbie says. I say, I don't know, but maybe I'll start writing like Jumbie. So Jumbie says can't you be a little more interesting? Literary, he says. He says, then we can discuss the finer points of grammar, and I say fine but I say nobody knows who writes like this and then I say since this is a watch forum not Introduction to World Literature, I say, so who cares who writes like who, says I

I just got back from a flea market with a 2893-2 movement I bought for $20. It appears to be working but I'm fairly certain there are a couple of parts missing--on the dial side @ about 10:00 there's a circular cutaway, apparently for a gear, that's empty and there's also a tab protruding from the bottom of the small plate that covers the setting assembly which doesn't appear to be currently serving any purpose. My smith is out of town and I'd like to have the parts ready for him when he returns so I can have him pop this movement into my 2836 PAM 063. (I have the hands from my 2893 029 I swapped for gen hands). If anyone can post a best-fit or other diagram, I'd be much obliged! Thanks...

By udecorated I mean no modified bridges, etc--it has the panerai engraving and I believe the sunburst winding gears like all solid back Gen PAMs--if you're still concerned about the genuineness of my 000 I'll take a couple of pics.