TeeJay

Freddy's artistic composition made me go and get Mrs Pugwash's ceramic moon.

Very nice

Yes and no.

I like it very much...which is a surprise for a 36MM.

But I hope my GF will wear it in fact

It's a nice piece, I'm sure your lady will like it I've got a Rhodium-effect, Roman Numerals DJ on order for my wife, which I ordered instead of parts I had planned to get for myself, so I hope she likes it as well

Just to mix it up a bit, I've put this on for the afternoon... I know, it looks a state, it's going to undergo a major regeneration in the hopefully not to distant future

Agreed. The only people who have paid attention to any of my watches at all are either people interested in watches, and that has opened up some interesting discussion and introduction to the world of reps and watches in general...or are designers who notice details like that.

I actually think it would be fun to get an extremely out-of-range rep so obviously fake because likely nobody would notice it anyways, and if they did it would be kind of a joke and cause a good chuckle (like a PP Sky Moon or uber-blinged out HBB. Vintage Rollies don't work as well for this because nobody but collectors understand the vintage market or really know what they are worth.

That's why I built one (well, something along the lines of one )

A 217, I do beleive your right TeeJay. It also looks to be on a SC strap

And to have two 217s, that monkey must be into some big pimpin

HAH HAH. My son pulled out his little tape measure and was measuring my 239 saying "yup...it's huge". In the end he picked my IWC Spitfire with a black moo-croc deployment.

I think your right TeeJay, the one closest to the elbow Is a 250 If Im not mistaken

I was thinking 127 myself

...and besides, you gotta wear them for at least a little bit to know whether or not your first attempts at horology, mods, repairs, etc are completely botched, or if all your swearing, sweating, and squinting through a loupe and begging for help from mates at RWG were worth it, bringing beautiful things into your life for you and your loved ones, bringing your family closer together, giving you the motivation to change the world...well maybe that's gone too far.

I also wear them in public as my 4 year old son likes to pick the watches I wear as part of the morning routine. This is one of his favourite storybook characters (note the number of watches he wears...he has the same on each hand...and I usually get encouraged to do the same):

They kind of look a bit like PAMs

Whoops, double post...

I don't think the feeling of owning a gen can be realised 'trying it on' in the AD, if you had owned one then sold it a little while later.. I would have understood.

Obviously I can't speak on your behalf, but personally speaking, if I try an item on in a store, I know if I like said product enough to buy it. I also know that if I am not 100% impressed by said item, I am not going to buy it. As I mentioned in another topic, the majority of the gens I have tried on recently not only failed to impress me, but I actually disliked them. I didn't have to buy them and wear them for a while to realize that. I'm not talking about 'the experience' of owning a gen, but wether I actually like the product enough to want to buy it in the first place...

This is a complex point to discuss, perhaps you like the 1680 dial not because of the design but because of the associated heritage of the original piece itself, branding, marketing and all!

It's really not a complex point at all, as the boldened text is pure supposition on your part. Until I joined the forum, I did not know anything about different models of Subs, so my appreciation for the 1680 dial, and preference for it over the modern dials, is a purely aesthetic consideration, (acquired since after joining the forum) with nothing to do with the above points

You'd really have seen a normal £5 watch at a market with big tritium maxi dots and thought 'that is the one'?

I'm not too sure what you mean... I likely would not have thought "Is this X model Sub?" but I would likely have thought "That's a nice watch..." and picked one up As before, if you can point me in the direction of a sterile 1680 dial within reasonable budgetary limits, then please share the link, as I would be most interested in checking it out

Come on now.. and you knew of its tactile quality from pictures? I'm not convinced, you're kidding yourself here if you think you bought this bag for its quality alone and that the LV design its plastered with didnt come into the equation. Cheaper high quality bags could be bought all over the place, and I know they can. We live in the same country!

Please don't tell me I'm kidding myself, it's rather patronising, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything about my opinion. I'm simply stating what it is, people are free to accept it or not, but please don't tell me that I don't know my own mind Yes, cheaper high quality bags might well be available elsewhere, but, having purchased from KB previously, I knew the items he carries were of a high quality, and as I was looking to make a long-term investment in a new bag (I am expecting at least a decade's use out of it before it starts falling apart on me) I was willing to believe that the quality of this bag would be as high as the previous goods, and make the sale Just to bring it back onto the topic of the conversation, I carry the bag in public, and have never once given any thought to if anyone notices the branding on it, nor been concerned that someone might 'call me out' over it I also have a £3 rucksack (actually built as a laptop bag) which I also use frequently, and have had a shorter time than the LV messenger. So far, one zip toggle has snapped, the other toggle is on the verge of snapping, and the overall construction of the bag is much less sturdy. Sure, it suffices for the purposes I use it for, but, at the end of the day, the difference in quality of the respective products does match the difference in the prices paid for them. Now, wether I'd think the messenger was actually worth LV's suggested retail price, is another kettle of fish entirely

And I disagree here, conformity would assume a majoritys persuation on an individual. A majority of people dont own a Rolex. This is not called conformity but aspiration. Aspiration that is a result of marketing which can be rejected freely by anyone!

I agree, a majority might not own a Rolex, but, a majority of people are aware of the brand enough, that if someone was to say "Do you want a Rolex?" and offer them one, chances are they would be very impressed with such a generous gift. Yes, the aspiration to own an item created by marketing can indeed by freely rejected by anyone, but, as the old saying goes, "peerpressure's a motherfucker..." People might, in the grand scheme of things, be free to choose, but in the real world, it's not always so easy to do when the people you work with, or family and friends all wear X product and say it's awesome... As before, Rolex created the desire through marketing, and they are the ones who control the price at retail (which while many may aspire to, not everyone can afford) so in that regards, they are the victims of their own success, in creating a relatively unattainable goal, which left the gap open for rep manufacturers to step into, by providing said product at a considerably cheaper price. Okay, sure, I know that a rep might not equal a gen in terms of manufacturing, but, as far as JoeSixPack is concerned, the dial on their wrist says 'Rolex', so that's all they care about, so in that regard, a watch is a watch, regardless of if it's gen or rep, and chances are, they'll get just as much pleasure out of it.

As before, don't think I'm resentful of gens, as I'm not. To be honest, I just find them boring in their perfection, unless it is a particularly rare model, which I then find interesting in terms of that rarity, but, that doesn't mean I resent them, dislike them, or those who buy them. As I said, it's the 'luxury industry' itself which bugs me, as it exists solely to create 'false idols', and overcharges people for products which could, in all honesty, be purchased for much less, were it not for corporate greed

[Edit to add]

I think it's funny that the items you mention, my watch and messenger bag, are (with the exclusion of my lost Daytona and a few dry Mont Blanc pens) the only 'prestige branded' goods I own. My entire wardrobe comes from Tesco, and on occasion Matalan (I actually had a pair of shoes from Matalan re-heeled because I liked them so much) and I tend to drink generic cola rather than Pepsi, so the things you mentioned, rather than 'proving a point', are actually 'the exceptions to the rule', (and even then not truly exceptions, as I did not purchase them for the associated prestige of the logos)when it comes to my possessions

PS I just remembered that I have an iPhone, it never even occurred to me to add it to my list of 'prestige possessions' as I consider it such a practical and widely-used tool, also, given their availability, while I accept that they are nicer, and more expensive than some basic mobile phones, I would not class them as 'luxury items' due to their relatively easy availability

O and if you don't care about the brand and just like the design. here is a great new submariner

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUBMARINER-STEEL-AUTOMATIC-MEN-WATCH-GERMAN_W0QQitemZ230369304165QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Watches?hash=item35a3149e65&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Awesome watch, but sadly (for me, at least) it's a modern style, so not really what I like in a Sub dial...

Thanks for the link though, it might well make a good parts donor

TJ your input always interests me, because I feel like you feel slightly resentful towards gens and the gen industry in general.

I don't think resentful is quite the correct term, although I can certainly understand how it might be perceived as such to someone else. On a personal level, I do not like consumerism, 'brand name worship', or goods being sold for more than their true value. I don't so much 'resent' the industry, as that would suggest that I was jealous of not having the funds to buy the goods, it's more a case of I despise the industry, and wouldn't buy the goods even if I had the cash to do so, as I simply do not feel that they are worth the price tag. A few years back, I nearly bought a gen sub. I had the cash, so that was not the issue, but when I tried it on, I was so utterly unimpressed, there was just no way I would want to spend that much money on something with left me feeling so uninspired. That's what then got me looking for reps, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Yet I wonder why you don't purchase sterile dials if you are not guilty of the same emulation and aspiration to the branding and aspiration to the luxury goods market in general.

On one hand, it is simply a case of aesthetic appreciation and getting the detail as I want them. I might dislike the gen industry, but that does not mean that I dislike the products themselves. I like particular watches, I just don't like them being over-priced for no reason other than corporate greed.

On the other hand, it is a case of availability of parts. If you could point me in the direction of a sterile version of a 1680 dial, and at a better price than I can pick up a cheap rep for, then by all means, please point me in the direction

Please don't confuse my aesthetic appreciation for aspiration to 'the lifestyle'

I think you personally promote the idea of utilitarian usage and enjoyment of the products, however ownership of Replica Rolex and Louis Vuitton would go beyond this!

I disagree, I bought the goods because I liked how they looked, and for utilitarian purposes. My LV messenger from KB has lasted better than many cheaper bags I have previously had. Sure, a strap adjuster snapped when I seriously over-loaded the bag with papers, but other than that, it's as good as the day I unwrapped it, where other bags I've had for a similar period of time became frayed and worn very quickly. I know that I can appear somewhat contradictory, but that is simply an appearance, rather than anything else

Because after all, it is the wearing the rep of a Rolex that has contributed highly to Rolex's renowned global brand status in the first place.

I would disagree, and if anything, suggest that Rolex (and many other prestige products) are the victims of their own success, and the very marketing upon which they rely: Marketing tells people to look a certain way, wear a certain product, live a certain life, but, not everyone can necessarily afford that at the price, so those people, possibly feeling pressured into conformity, are going to seek out the replica goods rather than the real thing, so who is really to blame there? The people who feel the need to have these brandnames to validate themselves, or the companies which make them feel they need to have the brandnames to validate themselves...

TeeJay we meet again

I agree about the moral issues, it was just an eye opener for me and something i had never really associated with the rep watch industry ( kids losing arms etc... pulled at my heart strings i guess)

That is why i never wore the reps out of the house, i didnt want questions etc... I think a large portion of people with reps would pass them off and are using them as quasi status symbols or status builders.

Each to their own and i still will enjoy reading the rep forums etc...

Indeed, it's a small forum

Do you have a link to an article about that (kids losing arms etc), I'd certainly be interested to read it As above, I can understand the moral aspect, but, I know that many legitimate prestige products are equally made under such conditions, and will continue to be, so avoiding rep goods really wouldn't make much of an impact, as the other goods would still be being produced, it's like I said about vegetarianism. I totally understand why someone would choose not to eat meat on moral grounds, I just don't share that belief.

Out of curiosity, what was it about the questions which you didn't want? Was it a case of not wanting to 'get called out' wearing a rep, or just not wanting to discuss a watch at all? I only ask as personally, I'd be happy to tell anyone about what I was wearing, without being embarrassed about wearing counterfeit merch, if they're genuinely interested and asking out of a genuine interest. Heck, even if it was someone trying to 'call me out', I can still point out that, regardless of the watch being a replica, or even its accuracy to any said mode, I personally built it, and with the few friends who have been interested in the project, that has been their focus of interest, rather than the brand on the dial, or the origin of the parts (which they're all fully aware of). Of course, all that being said, I'd rather just not attract the attention in the first place, which is why I went for the vintage aesthetic, rather than a modern watch... You may well be correct about a large percentage of rep owners passing them off as genuine and status symbols, I certainly know one person who is like that, who wears a rep Explorer II (obvious to anyone who knows Rolex, as it has the coronet and Rolex etched into the endlinks of the bracelet...) who seems to think he's a member of (to use his phrase) "the Rolex Club", yet who when we were discussing my project sub, didn't know why the bezel rotated, and upon being told that it was a diver's watch, said he'd be scared to take a Rolex underwater... If he's indicative of the majority of rep owners, then I would certainly agree with you. That said, I don't think it is at all indicative of the majority of the members of the forum As you say, to each his own

Hey,

Interesting topic and i will have a go at replying quickly...

I never wear my reps in public only have them to look at and play with, now i am selling out of reps all together and sticking with my gen rollies. Why you might ask? well my views on this have changed recently after reading a few articles and becoming a bit more informed.

I also recently read about cartel involvement in the manufacture of replica handbags, shoes and watches and the human rights issues that go along with them. Children forced to work, mothers, daughters and older people forced to work for little pay and punishment. The rep industry supports some of the most violent and ruthless criminals in the world and all for what? so we can feel a bit better about ourselves wearing a "faux" rolex or whatever the brand? It is plain selfish and a movement i do not want to be part of anymore.

So if you can't afford a 10 or 20 grand watch buy what you can afford and don't pretend to be someone your not, you are only selling out yourself.

On a second note, i have a leased cls63 amg, doesn't mean i can't afford it but for tax purposes it works out better Idiots buy cars outright (unless its a collector e.g. rolls royce).... Most heavily depreciating items known to man.

Interesting perspective, but, it does rather rely on the end buyer only buying rep goods for the associated prestige value, rather than simply an appreciation for the form aesthetically. I can certainly understand the moral point you raise as well, in the same way that I can understand why some people choose to be vegetarians or vegans, but, I don't feel strongly enough about that issue to actually abstain myself. Certainly not when so many premium products are made under less than ideal conditions anyway (sneakers, for example)

Wearing a rep does not automatically mean that the person is doing so to 'pretend to be someone they're not', and I wouldn't label someone accordingly, in fact, I'd think less about the person who bought the genuine item, and thought that the ability to do so actually meant something, or made them a better person, than I would about the person who buys a rep. That said, I would look very unfavorably on someone who bought a rep and tried to pass it off as genuine, if asked politely about it.

One thing's for sure, I'd take the members of this forum, over the snobs of gen forums any day

I understand both of the above arguments, I think that one a deeper level that it is a flaw in my mindset that i would give up a gen that has been "crafted"(however is it has a standard off the shelf Eta movement)for some thing that people may actually notice even thought it's a rep.

I would'ent say that i did'ent like my Oris, but it just doe'ent have that wow factor that i thought all gens had. I suppose i was thinkin there was an enormous difference between all gens and reps, but there is'ent.

It just feels better to look down at my AR coated rep that has presence than my "crafted" gen which is far more discreet. I thought owning a gen would kill off my passion for reps, but this hobby perseveres.

Does anyone have a all black HBB to tempt me with?

Within the past couple of years, I've tried on the following gens:

Ebel Discovery 1911

Explorer II (white dial)

Date Just (black dial)

GMT II Ceramic

Submariner

Some Bvlgari, but I'm not familiar with the model name...

Tag Aquaracer

Omega Planet Ocean (both sizes)

The only ones which actually impressed me in any way, was the GMT II C, and even then, I didn't like the polished mid-links of the bracelet (and still didn't think if was worth £5000) and the Ebel Discovery (and even then, it's not a watch I could see myself wearing day in, day out, so no point in me buying one...) The Explorer II, came off my wrist within seconds of the clasp closing. The Aquaracer left me feeling seriously disappointed, the Planet Oceans were nice, but I honestly couldn't see any improvement over the rep, for the cost involved.

While I would not dispute a person's own experiences or appreciation for a gen watch, personally speaking, it is not a phenomenon I experience, so to me, I just think a watch is a watch, regardless, and, accordingly, a nice watch is a nice watch regardless, and, at the end of the day, it's just a matter of personal tastes and requirements

Given that the only watches I own are reps, yes, I wear them in public without a second thought. I agree with a lot of what you've said, but for me, this is the point which sums up my own reasons for wearing a rep:

But it was always for me, not to impress other people, I really like watches.

As I was just explaining to another forum friend, the reason why I built a vintage sub, and then beat it up to look the age the case should be, is anonymity. I don't want the watch to attract attention. I don't want people to notice it and wonder how much it's worth. All I want, is a watch which serves my needs, and, in this instance, if someone else was to notice it, I'd hope that they just think "What a beaten up POS", without even looking close enough to see the R-Word on the dial

Admitedly, mine's a real bastardization from several models of Subs over the years, but I think if the parts involved were genuine, then the accumulative value would still likely be quite high. Not a watch I could afford to buy myself, but, plausibly something I might have inherited, and while I'd be happy to explain to anyone who asked that it is a rep, and I did build it myself, I'd hope that they never even gave it enough thought to ask

Awesome topic, by the way, I think there'll be some enlightening answers

I was thinking a gen is a gen, so all the advantages are apparent. The Hublot is a very expensive watch at nearly $800 for a full ceramic. So the swap may equal out. I can't believe that i could acquire a gen but still lust for a rep.

I really don't want to sell my Oris then buy the rep, i'd consider the swap, because i have the opportunity to give someone the pleasure of a gen.

It's really strange, I could just buy a all black Chopard, Porsche design chrono, IWC top gun or even a bell & ross phantom. The Hublot just pushes the right buttons but i fear that by giving up a gen for a rep, it could be a terrible mistake.

Can anyone verbally beat some sense into me? or is this normal behavior for a person who loves watches?

Yes, a gen is a gen, but, if you're not bonding with it, then it's just "a watch you don't like", so it being gen rather than rep, really only matters in terms of the value it may hold in a sale or exchange situation, and even if you sell or swap, either way, the person on the other end of the transaction still gets the pleasure of a gen

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you're comfortable with as a watch, and what you like. A while back, I bought a (rep) Vacheron Constantin Overseas, as from the photos, it looked like a gorgeous watch. And, when it arrived, it was indeed a gorgeous watch. But. As much as I liked looking at it, I couldn't stand wearing it, so I got rid of it very quickly. It had nothing to do with the watch being a rep, as it was a gorgeous watch, it just "wasn't me" when it came to wearing it...

Hi

I have just aquired a gen Oris williams day date, but i have always had the urge to get a HBB all black.

Would it be ridiculous if i was to advertise a swap of my oris for a Hublot? I'm in two minds about it. The oris is my first gen but i just don't feel satisfied by it even thought it will last forever with regular servicing.

What does everyone think i should do?

Bearing the boldened text in mind, I'd say get rid of it for a watch which you do connect with Rep or gen, who cares... At the end of the day, a nice watch is a nice watch regardless, and as long as you like it, that's all that matters

last 1 is with my wm9v2

Fantastic pics, thanks for sharing That's some real vintage quality

I wasn't really up for changing my avatar, but here's a couple of pics of my favorite Bond Girl to keep in the spirit of things :wub:

Surgery on what was an old Skiing injury. Fixing a little tendon issue. I am optimistic.

Here's to a speedy recovery

I think that based on what I've seen, the seller on iOffer is selling stolen pictures of genuine watches.

That's the watch although that's a horrible rep.

I have to admit, I'd be interested in getting the watch and then getting all the yellow replaced with blue lume, but you're quite right, it's not the most attractive of watches 'as is'

As usual, no change for me

As someone who had a semi-successful purchase from Hont.

Be informed, no PayPal or "regular CC" (hmmm site now shows Visa/MC). By the time you incur Western Union fees, etc, you might as well wait for our trusted cartel's to get a hold of these. Finally, it took almost a month after payment for the watch to ship. The watch received was, well, not to my standards.

YMMV....

I love this watch. Where i can buy a good replica of this watch?

Welcome to the forum I believe your only real route, is to build one yourself from available parts, rather than purchasing a completed replica... Best of luck

I really dislike the rubber strap, the lug > rubber/metal/rubber design looks strange, and I know it will not fit my smaller wrist well.....

I know what you mean about the look of the strap, it looks 'a bit forced' somehow... Oh well, I'm sure they'll get there in the end

The factory is wasting all their time with these other models, if nobody buys them, they may not bother with the silver dial version, thinking there is no interest!

The only one I am waiting for is the silver version too, somebody should tell Hont to put a word in with the factory, and to get the steel bracelet repped too

That's what makes me laugh too, I've seen a UN on Tony's site which I quite like (even though it's not the Rhodium dial) but it's only on the silicone strap, and I think I'd really only like it on the bracelet. I guess I could buy one of the other models which are on the bracelet, do a part swap, and then try and sell off the other one with the rubber strap installed