TeeJay

I can see what you mean, but then again, if he has to go out of town on business, that has to take precedense over a sale, and I can understand someone wanting to meet in person. In a way, I'd take comfort from that, as a true scammer would want the money and mail it to you, rather than offering to meet in person, afterall, if you meet in person, you might discover the watch a rep, or change your mind, and they lose the sale... Indeed, the title of the ad could have been better, perhaps 'mint condition' or 'reconditioned' Rolex might have been more accurate... Go with whatever you feel best, but, as I mentioned before, calling their bluff, and offering to meet on the 15th certainly can't hurt [Edit to add] I forgot to ask, was the ad in a paper or online? If it was in a local paper, then chances are the ad was placed several days before the paper was printed and released, so his business plans might have changed in between that time. Not a cool thing to do

The weather's pretty lousy here, so, that means wearing bummy clothes... I'm not getting my suede (further) ruined by getting it soaked, so that means this combo: (Cam phone pics, sorry)

Personally, I'd say just take the 127. But, I'd take it with a casual strap, a strap to match to your 'smart shoes', and a rubber strap for swimming with (incase the need arrises) Despite it's size, it really is an incredibly versatile watch, if worn with the right strap for the right time

.Double post

I just wanted to emhasize this point, as I might not have quite made it clear in my own comment on the 127. If you're someone used to watches of Submariner size, then jumping to a 127 (especially if you wear the sub-size until the 127 arrives, and then immediately swap), it will appear HUGE at first glance. Even going from a 111h to a 127 was a noticeably larger watch. Funnily though, I would say, and other 127 owners might agree with me, it might just be my own observation, but, during the day, once you've got used to the size, it 'settles down', and doesn't appear so big. But, at night, when you look at the dial in the dark, and the luminous markers are almost the width of your wrist, it can appear really big. Don't know if anyone else has noticed that, but I thought I'd just mention it. I don't want to scare you off the 127, it's an amazing watch, and one everyone should have in their collection, (like having a Sub, or an SMP) but, I certainly wouldn't advise it as the first PAM, as the sheer size (on initial viewing) might overpower. Another watch I forgot to mention before, would be the Radiomir 210. Very minimalist and elegant watch

I'd suggest either a 111h, or a 112h, as a way of getting into the PAM aesthetic, and following that, I'd then say move up to a 127. I would not advise a 127 to start off with, as, in all honesty, it is a huge watch, and one which someone has to be in the right frame to appreciate. That said, once you do get one, I suspect it would become the regular beater, as it is an incredibly versatile watch (if worn with appropriate strap changes for wardrobe) Best of luck with your decision and purchase

You're absolutely right, it was a totally reasonable request, and, certainly not one which deserved an abusive response. I'll be the first to admit, that with regards tracking numbers, there often will be a delay in it arriving, as a dealer might not be able to post the item on the same day the transaction is made, so it doesn't hurt to give a few days grace to accomodate that, and, EMS, as a shipping service, do not always update the information on their site quickly, so I think it is something which needs to be treated with patience, but, as above, your request for information was in a polite and reasonable manner, certainly not demanding or impatient, so not deserving an abusive response by any means. Indeed, I think you're quite right that people used to dealing with 'dealers', might expect similar treatment/reassurances etc from 'sellers'. It's basically the same effect as I mentioned with shops. People are so used to shop staff having to fawn over them, and the frequently reinforced notion that 'Customer is King!!!', that they get used to such treatment, and come to expect it, even when it isn't warranted, and indeed, the internet does provide an anonymity which makes some people incredibly mouthy and offensive, which, chances are, they would never dare to be in real life. Sanme basic issue as with the 'in transit' scenario. People are used to dealing with legitimate, established companies, which can often provide next day services, and forget that, although they're using the same medium for communication, there is a rather different process to our 'little hobby', so can lose sight of the fact that orders might take a little longer, or information might not be so readily available, but, that doesn't necessarily imply foul play on the part of the dealer. I agree with all your points, except for the boldened part. Drop-shippers cannot check the stock they are shipping, and that can lead to people receiving incorrect, or, not acceptable stock. The only solution I can think of, is that drop-shipping dealers (who should be 100% identified as such, and listed accordingly) should have a 100% 'no-quibble' returns policy for anything arriving, which is legitimately in error (ie wrong watch/faulty product) As they are not sending out the stock themself, it is only reasonable that they should accept responsibility if something is faulty, and allow exchanges or refunds without quibble, including covering the cost of returns, as it is not the buyer's fault that the wrong item arrived, but it is the fault of the drop-shipper that they are unable to 100% verify what they send out. Of course, that's just my own feeling on the issue, I'm quite happy to do business with drop-shippers, providing they are open about it, and accept that if problems occur, although it is not their personal fault it happened, it is the onus is on them (as seller and identified 'head of company') to make the correct resitutions. That sucks. If they can email you to say they're giving you a refund, they could equally have made the refund online at the same time. This is a PP transaction? I have to admit, this kind of behaviour is just trying to hang onto your money, so I'd personally say it was time to 'name and shame', as that's certainly someone people should be wary of dealing with in the future...

As I said, people are brought up with, and brainwashed by businesses and shops which bend over backward to accomodate their whims to retain them as customers, and that is harmfull to both customers (who come to expect such treatment) and retailers (who have to then deal with customers expecting such treatment). I think anyone has the right to be dealt with in a courteous and professional manner, as a matter of simple manners, regardless if it's their first transaction or their hundredth. As I said above, the amount of personal interaction (beyond the matter of the business being transacted) and potential discounts given, depends on the length of time the person has been a client, but, even a new client deserves to be dealt with professionally, and, if I may revise my statement, should not be left feeling that they were 'just another customer'. I'm not saying someone should fawn over and kiss the ass of a new client, but neither should they be off-hand or dismissive of them. There does seem to be a certain amount of people on the forums who forget that they are dealing with illicit goods from non-standard sources. Sure, that does not entitle the dealer to be off-hand or pull shady tricks, but, it does mean that the buyers need to ask the right questions, rather than complain that what they receive, is not what they expected it to be (ie they expect more of the item than would be reasonable) and of course, buyer beware... Of course it's not. If they do, then all the power to them for their level of service, but, it certainly shouldn't become expected, as I illustrated above, by reference to frequent clients, who start to expect, or even ask for, preferential treatment. Who are you meaning would be wound up by the money? I wouldn't expect an established trader to be concerned about the money, as they would have enough in other sales to easily compensate someone for a problem, where a private seller might be someone who needs the cash, makes the sale, uses it, and might be unable to immediately refund it should a problem arise. The buyer certainly has the right to be concerned about their money, afterall, they had to work had to earn it, but, there is indeed a line between reasonable and unreasonable expectations in terms of being reassured (or to use a more accurate term 'molly-coddled') by a dealer. I'm not sure who I'd be more concerned about trying to get a refund back from... The private sale, where the funds might not be so readily available, or the established dealer who does not need to really worry about negative publicity... In the year I've been buying reps, I've only once been in the situation to have to call a deal off due to poor response from the dealer, and even then, I asked that they donate the cost of the deal to charity rather than refund it (possibly out of concern that the refund process might have been equally delayed, possibly because I was not so worried about the amount in the Big Picture...)

Have to admit, that's not good... Okay, sometimes a mistake can be made and something can be sent by the alternate (slower) service, we're all human, we all make mistakes, but, it's usually apologized for and rectified by some kind of compensation, and even then, the goods should still arrive within the timeframe specified for the alternate service... I'd be more put off by the dealer's abusive comment rather than shipping delays (which could be down to human error), but abuse is never 'accidental'.

I know what you mean, it's not a case of threatening, it's just a case of choosing to do business with someone who'll treat you with the respect due. I admit, if someone tries that 'Customer is always right' attitude with me, then they get told to jog on. I've always treated customers (and now I'm self-employed, clients) with the respect due to them. Here's my take on how people should treat their customers/clients... 1st transaction: Courteous, polite, professional. Person gets item/service as specified, at the 'shelf price' specified. Regular Clints: As above, courteous, polite, professional, but, with less professional reserve, and occasionally, for example, if they're making a big spend, it doesn't hurt to knock something off the price. Frequent Regular Clients: Courteous, polite, professional, but going into more personal issues in conversation, rather than just 'the business at hand'. Discounts as appropriate, especially if spending a lot. Willingness to extend other favors to the client (ie sourcing unusual item, or holding stock) Of course, many would say that there are people who provide the 3rd level of service to even a new client, and that is fantastic. The only problem I find with such practices, from my own point of view, is that a new client, receiving such treatment from day one, will continue to always expect it. Discounts should be given at seller's discretion, not client request or expectation. A truly 'good client', will not expect to get a discount every time they come in, but be greatful if it is granted. Even frequent clients can go down in my estimation if they do make impositions such as requesting discount or preferential treatment. Something I've always told the staff working under me, is that the 'good customers', the 'regular customers', will never point out that they are 'good customers', or how much they've spent. It's a shame to hear that your dealer's standard of service slipped so much after your initial purchase, it certainly doesn't put them in a good light. If anything, I've found a dealer's standard of service increases with time... Time for a new dealer indeed, my friend...

Certainly polite enough. Have to admit, EMS as a company has been known to not update it's info regularly, but, they do still get the goods delivered on time... I hope the issue gets worked out satisfactorily

Is that question directed at me?

Sorry to hear about the bad transaction. I was going to suggest, that if you're not happy with their attitude, to cancel the order, ask for a refund, and go to another dealer, but, as the parcel is (supposedly) on it's way, you don't really have that option... It could go one of two ways... Either you could be generous, give the dealer the benefit of the doubt that they were having a bad day, and you got the brunt of it, or, you could simply take your business to someone else in future. On principle, if I'm not happy with the service in a store, I do not go in it again unless there has been a change in management/staff. A lot of people have been brought up with, and brainwashed by, the notion that "The Customer is King!!!". As someone who has worked in both sales and management the retail industry, I can honestly say that that is BS. For example, several years ago, when I was managing a video store, a person had run up a

Good of you to keep everyone informed, it'll hopefully stop irate people posting "Why are my PMs being ignored???!!!" I hope you have a good vacation, by the time you get back, I should have the spare funds for transacting some business

An idea I had earlier, and forgot to post until now, was: Try using a hair-dryer to gently heat the strap, manipulate it into a more curved shape, then, holding it in that shape, run it under the cold tap. Might help put some shape into it, I can't say I've actually tried it myself... Best of luck

Ahh, my problem with gold, is that it brings me up in a rash. Strange, for a supposedly unreactive metal, but, there you go... I've just never been able to have it in contact with my skin for any prolonged period of time, so I just avoid it where-ever possible. In terms of aesthetics, I can appreciate gold watches, I just can't wear them The second set of photos are fantastic, you've certainly got a fine purchase, I'm sure you'll get a lot of pleasure from wearing it

Absolutely fantastic watch Not one I'd have for myself (I can't wear gold), but, it's absolutely gorgeous, and a fine dress watch As TTK said, no need to have the fixes done, it's only people here who would notice when it's worn

Cool I've got to order a 210 for my friend's birthday, and, when I order one for myself, I'll send it in for coating

Would it be possible to provide one's own case and simply pay for the coating to be done?

A bit of a late entry, I know, and apologies if it doesn't help with your decision, but, personally, I feel that with PAMs, it is the strap, not so much the watch itself, which dictates it's role in a wardrobe. For example, I'd always thought that the 127 would be too big for wearing with a suit to look smart, but, pairing it with a black aligator strap, with off-white stitching, and it looked incredibly smart and formal. When I wear it on the honey/tan straps, it looks casual. When I wear it on the rubber diver-strap, it looks 'more modern', functional and rugged (it also appears larger, due to the shape of the strap shoulders) Of course, in all those situations, the watch is exactly the same, it is just the straps which are changed, and which create the greatest change in tone and role. I have plans to get a Radiomir as a 'dress watch', but, I know that nine times out of ten, simply putting a black strap on my 127 would be 'smart enough'. Also, the Radiomir I had in mind, was the vintage variant, with four line cut-throughs on the cartinal directions, and 'dot' cut-throughs to represent the 'lesser' hours. Incredibly simplistic watch, which, in dress occasions, is the aim: Simplicity.

That's not too bad, I'll have to start rattling the piggy-bank [Edit to add] That could be helpfull I'll be most interested to see the finished item

+1 Funds are undeniably tight at the moment, but, having seen the ceramic PAM, I'm liking the aesthetic. Okay, so I don't wear my PVD 111g now I have my 127, but, such a watch would definitely be something I'd want to add to my overall collection If it's something which might take a while to organize, I might be able to scrape the cash together

What a toss-piece. For what it's worth, I'm sure he's going to wind up getting black-listed very quickly and finding himself unable to aquire more goods... The last thing this hobby needs, is unwanted attention from someone posting such things on public forum(s)

I'm not too sure about the size of the watch, but, although the case/bezel diameter is quite large, the actual dial is (or at least I felt was) quite small in comparison. I had been tempted to get one, but, having tried one on in an AD, I felt the dial was too small for my purposes. Gorgeous watch, it just didn't fit my requirements