anton

I awlays thought "Breguet" was pronounced as "Bray-Zhay", not "Bray-U-Get" like a jeweler once said. Oh, and same jeweler said "Blahnk-Pain" for Blancpain when I assumed it was "Blahnk-Pahn"

I know; some of us are exceptions to the rule. The ones I speak of in my example, are (and I'm sure you know of them) the ones who probably don't subscribe to the threads and think a "canal st. special" looks just like "the real thing". But I have a question for you: Since you say that you object to the price tag of the gens, but like the look; let's say you erased all the brand names off all the dials of your reps. Wou you still have the same emotional value to them as you do the ones you own now? Would you still wear them proudly? Oh and BTW, 100 posts to this thread! I didn't think a thread I started would have an active response! Thank you, all your opinions are valuable and told me a bit about how people all over the world view their watches.

Well, I will concede --- when you are right, you are right. I see too many wristshots there. The one thing I have noticed, though, it one person attempting to "one-up" another.

I apologize to everyone who posted our opinions on gen vs. rep buyers, but I would really like for that discussion to be brought onto a new topic. Won't one of you start it off? I would like this thread to be strictly on members' reactions of purchasing gen after rep.

Do you browse EVERY SINGLE SUBFORUM within TZ? Because those are alot of threads to read. Where I see an overwhelming majority of gen owners who despise rep owners are in the (not surprisingly) Rolex and Panerai subforums. And between you and me, I could care less what their opinions were. But at the same time, I appreciate the kind of brand loyalty they have. And I agree, I've stopped visiting TZ because of the lack of necessitated intelligence and/or valuable opinion. If you'd like to visit a forum where there are gen owners who appreciate their watches, I suggest visiting PMWF or WUS.

When you say Asian, what do you mean specifically? Surely, you can't mean that EVERYONE in the Asian (and for you UK readers I mean East Asian and/or SE Asian) region pronounces it this way? @ Vbarrett: IWC: EYE-DOUBLE-YOU-SEE If you can't pronounce an acronym, then you have no business purchasing any kind of watch.

Ahh, and here we have the basis for the "double standard" argument. What you can say about the average TZ member is what they can say about the average RWG member. One can easily say that we care or have even less appreciation for the "art or mechanical craftsmanship" as we, too, are looking for brand recognition and presumed exclusivity. In this world of gens vs. reps, we are all pretenders because we want to project an image of affluence to another. In an even deeper sense, maybe us as rep owners aspire to be gen owners because, after all, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule and collect for the "love" of collecting but I'm speaking generally. The reason why we see more hobbyists here is because: 1) This board has a fraction of members vs. TZ 2) It's economicially feasable on your conscience to tear apart a $200 watch. But would you dare take apart a $2000 watch? Not unless you had a a couple $6000 watches, you wouldn't.

Yes, but what's the soup you were having???

Well, I constantly encounter conversation with some so-called watch "experts", and here is a composite of some errors I've come across...coming from the most novice of aficionados to expert salespeople to appraisers! Brand...................Error.....................Correct Pronounciation TAG Heuer............TAG Hew-er..............TAG Hoy-er Panerai.................Pan-er-ray................Pan-er-eye ETA......................E-T-A........................Etta Breitling................Brayt-ling/Brit-ling.....Bright-ling Patek Philippe.......Pah-teek Philippe........Pah-tech Philippe Montblanc.............Mont-blank..................Mon-blah-nk Hublot..................Hugh-Blot...................Hugh-Bloh Whenever I'm at the AD, I laugh to myself when "trained" salespeople say the names of brands like this. But I always refrain myself from correcting them. One time I did, they treated me hostile! And please, throw in your experienced error!

Speaking of which, I'd like to see that too. I saw some printed with no materials, others that were clearly used from another batch. Mine (SS/SS) says: "Stainless Steel /Kevlar/ Titanium"...funny, where's the titanium?

Here is a picture of the underside of the buckle; truly a marked improvement in this industry where most stampings on the frontside can be seen on the backside:

Me: Nothing special; just an SS/SS: something us regular joes can pull off easily. Update: after five months of ownership: bezel screws are free-moving, but surprisingly don't fall off. @ Vbarrett, what is that soup you've got waiting on you? I want one too and love them spicy!

The pearl comes off when you unscrew the rider tab off the bezel. The pearl itself is built as a upside down "T" shape; so it's held in place by the screw. The known flaw of all the bracelet reps is the endlink...they don't seem to be engraved deep enough.

Check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/24-20MM-BREITLING-BLAC...1QQcmdZViewItem item: 150168080976 What a crook this guy is.

@ Defacto: I've got the CWS on the angled bracelet. Too bad it's polished, though; because then it would be perfect for it. Currently, I'm trying to source a angled bracelet for the BB, but price is 2.5X watch! I may end up getting a rep pilot bracelet and brushing it myself or a Pro II. @ Rxus: If I picked a gen rider tab, I may also have to get the entire bezel because most likely they are cut or angled differently. But I do know that on the gen the pearl is contained within the rider tab; on the rep it's two separate pieces so it makes you lose the part fairly easy or riun the lume. @ Lanikai: I can't make a proper determination, but you should ask your collector to replace the entire bezel as it looks as if the placeholders for the tabs are slightly off by a couple degrees. Please reference by my two macro shots below:

I purchased it back in March. I'll double-check the price I paid the AD but I know myself. Had the AD wanted $250 for the strap, I would have walked. Gator straps are not that far off selling for $315 (along the lines of other Mfr's straps). So the seller is crazy for selling just a strap for $275. If it came with a buckle I wouldn't complain. Maybe he should look at his listings and make sure he didn't intend to put in $279 HKD.

As the 'ristis' who also read the discussion section; many of you know that I've also written a review on the Ferrari 006; The Rose Gold plated model of the 004 SS. I absolutely love the watch. Personally, it puts the HBB and its' 500+ price tag to shame. But that's not the issue. My issue is this: Who has had experience with gold plated watches? Tarnish ability? Cleaning? I'm paranoid that If I clean it or wear it and then sweat, the plating would wear off! Funny thing is that if I purchased a gold plated gen, I wouldn't worry about this.

Is the seller serious?!?!?! $250 for the same strap that I purchased from a VERY WELL KNOWN Panerai AD in NYC for only $130?

I'm all for getting the gen rubber strap. Reason being is that alough the rep and gen are technically the same (printing, markings, branding, etc.), the rep strap (at least the ones I've used) were dust wh**es, didn't play well with stretching, and tle last point is hard to explain, but the gen keeps the black color with use, whereas the rep tends to to go slightly gray with use. ------------------- I posted a topic regarding the movement here: "Big Date" Movement

The difficulty in replicating a movement as always been the dealbreaker for me to purchase a gen over rep, but what drives me even further is the timeless and/or classic and/or unique designs that cause me to buy the gen. As much as we don't talk about used market value on vintages, one can't help that when you purchase a gen piece, there's a small part in your head that is always thinking, "how much can I get for it if I sold it?"

Last week I picked up a Blackbird, because my dealer had one available and after reading forum topics on it, I had to see it for myself. So here it is: a wrist shot of two: 1) The Crosswind Special "Gold Wings" from 2000: 2) Windwider Blackbird (Apparently the successor to the CWS): And a side-by-side shot: ...and I'll be damned if I put any more $$$ on the gens when I can get a rep @ 1/10th the secondhand price. Here, I'm not following the rep vs. gen argument, but if you readers can remember, I posted a movement comparison (2894-based B44 vs. Modified A7750) and I wanted to follow up with live pics of the two side-by-side. The big date complication is an improvement for this movement, even if it's not intended to be used this way. The datefont (save for a little print bleeding) looks spot on with the gen. It also moves and flips over like on the gen. FYI, it's in this configuration: Left side - 0/0/1/2/3/0/0/1/2/3 Right side - 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/0 The only flaw with this is the date is slightly wider on the rep than it is on the gen. Fortunately, the maker of the rep also printed the dials with the optical illusion of the words "CHRONOMETRE CERTIFIE" with slightly wider spacing so it would look spot on with the gen. Final thoughts: Even though I've been cursed with a slightly off-center pearl (which is not AR coated sapphire like the gen and be careful if you unscrew the rider tab; the pearl comes off), I've been blessed the most aesthetically pleasing rep I've ever owned. No decessed datewheel issues, a literally perfect "B" center seconds hand, and very strong AR (but still not like gen; gen has a purplish tint; rep has a blue), This is one of those reps that I'm proud to own and one of those that make me think twice about buying gen or rep. EDIT: I've recently noticed some flaws that I consider to be HUGE and they may or my not affect the Blackbird that you may receive from a dealer...Thanks to Lanikai for bringing this to me and finding them myself. 1) Bezel rider tabs may be misaligned with the cutout placeholders on the bezel. Also, rider tabs may not be evenly cut on both sides. Methinks this is due to the hand-cutting of the rider tabs. 2) As I just noticed on mine, the bezel screws are glued in. I attempted to remove my bezel to refinish the watch case up to snuff, but trying to remove the screws has thus far proven difficult. Lanikai, could you attempt to remove them?

too many flaws with this model. but the most obvious???? it doesn't exist as a gen.

Not true...you're not counting the metropolitian areas where the place is just TOO busy for you to drive in it.

If I'd had to venture a guess, the organization kept some for themselves and this is a result of having some "overstock", if you can call it that. Even though a team has 40 on its' roster, 25 (being the active players) really only deserve the watch, being that they played in the World Series themselves, the managers, and of course, the GM himself. Knowing them and their budget, heck, maybe they decided to unload some PAMs to bring in a player. And speaking of micro-sized Special Editions, coming in an even smaller production run was the PAM 247 and 248: "For the first twenty years of activity, 1986-2006, of Francesco Ferretti, the famous collector and authorized dealer in Montecatini Terme (Tuscany), the Officine Panerai of Milan have realized two limited serials, Limited Edition 2006, of 20 units each, based on the Radiomir (Base), Pam 210 and on the Luminor Marina, Pam 111, both based from the historic collection, as follows: - Pam 247, Radiomir (Base), OP 6674 45mm polished steel case, hand-wound movement OP X cal., 300 m and black -sandwich- dial. Leather strap, ardillon buckle and covered case-back, alls pesonalized with the written 1986-2006 and the logo of Ferretti (a pyramid) engraved." Even the strap and buckle is marked as well:

It was actually bidding on auctions for vintage Pateks that led me to find out the difference between LC and JLC. There's a seller based out in Poland who sells vintages which I now know are recased pocket watches. There was something odd about his selling signed "Patek Philippe & Cie." wristwatches that made me do some investigative research.