richard591

So, that's all done now. As I suspected, the messing about with the keyless works levers and the sliding pinion had dislodged the brake lever from its slot on the other side of the pinion (which I hadn't spotted) and that was the reason the movement kept going with the winder in the hands set position. After removing the Auto wind and barrel bridges and re-positioning the lever all is now back to normal once more. Once again thanks to everyone for their contribution. Much appreciated.

Again, thanks for that. I suspect that with all the disruption to the keyless components during the re-assembly the stop lever has probably come out of the slot in the sliding pinion and that's most likely what I will see when its all uncovered. Will post that when I know for sure. One final comment/observation on your instructions for re-assembly of the keyless is step 8, which may be confusing to some. I see about 105 people have looked at this, so some may be considering the same thing at some point.. I think you are referring to the "hairpin" shaped extension at the top, which acts as a spring on the lever, putting it under pressure. Unless this is engaged properly, the sliding pinion does not engage properly for winding. Yes I made that mistake first. The following photos were dragged up from a previous post in 2011 on the same subject (my winder doesn't work) and show the lever, then the spring arm incorrectly positioned and laying over the lever, then correctly installed as in step 8 and laying to the side. Keyless yoke.docx

Many thanks Micky, much appreciated. Looks like another dull afternoon for me trying to stop small screws flying all over the place again. Two years ago I couldn't have told you the difference between a keyless works component and a banana. Now they're rapidly becoming my new best friends!!

Thanks for that SSTEEL. Since the original problem described was the winder stem not going back in, I'm assuming that the previous owner may have tried to put too much pressure on it to try to force it in. I also assume, therefore, that this may have bent the brake lever in the process? If I remember correctly the lever is accessed via the removal of the winder weight, then the barrel bridge. Any other tips I should know about if that's correct?

Update on MMM's instructions. By the way, the video from mrsoundman shows a different method of accessing the keyless from the back by removing the balance weight and various bridge works. I used MMM's version, which is from the front of the movement with the whole thing lying on its back. So, that all went pretty much as described, and the winder stem is now back and engaged. However, there is one more problem. Pulling the stem out I have date set position and hand set position as normal and in either position I can see the correct parts moving when the winder is rotated. However, in hand set position it should stop the movement by one of the components acting as a brake on the balance wheel mechanism. It doesn't and the balance wheel still rotates as normal. Everything else on the keyless seems to be moving correctly when the winder is pulled out, but I may be wrong on that. Any ideas and have I still not got the keyless right? Or is this another separate problem?

Thanks also for that video. Very clear and helpful indeed. Once again, thanks for the comments. You never fail to come up with good advice. Much appreciated.

Thanks for your time in typing that out Matt. Very much appreciated. Your instructions all seem quite logical and clear, so will do what you have detailed in the next idle moment I can find. One final question on removing the winder stem. I usually pull the winder right out to time set position, then move the hands back and forth a few times to make sure everything is engaged/locked properly. Only then do I remove the stem by putting a slight pull pressure on it while at the same time just pressing the release button ever so gently until the winder just pulls free, then immediately take the pressure off the release button. This was what I was always told to do by a watchmaker who worked on these movements (ETA) Over several movement swap overs this method has not failed so far, but do you consider it the best? I have read of others doing it differently. Regards Richard Thanks also for that video. Very clear and helpful indeed.

I would appreciate some help on this one from the experts. I've just picked up another spare A2836 from a friend. Unfortunately, the winder won't re-engage as the release button seems to have been pushed in a little too enthusiastically, therefore looks like the keyless works need to be re-set. Is there a tutorial previously posted that anyone can direct me to and which gives a blow by blow sequence for doing this? I'm used to dismantling various parts on this movement to swap movements/ datewheels/face and hands etc over and have the usual precision set of srewdrivers and 10x mag headset etc. Any guidance would be much appreciated, otherwise it looks like sending it back to my very reliable watchmaker friend who is happy to work on these rep movements. Richard

There you go. life's not that bad after all.

Yes we have bears and wolves in France, as well as 450 pound wild boar that will break your legs then disembowel you. So, I agree with Nanuq, if I were going out into that environment it makes sense to take a gun. The only difference is that all my weapons would be subject to fairly strict gun controls, but didn't stop me obtaining them. I think ceejay's comment is correct. A 12 gauge is unlikely to stop a bear unless you happen to be standing right next to it with the muzzle resting on its head. I'm not trying that one!! I think something a little heavier is called for. In the case of the wife, a Barrett M107 50 cal is about the only thing that would stop mine, but then she is half Danish, so part Viking. Anyway, it's a joy to see that humour is still alive and well. It's brightened up my week I can tell you. Lifetrekker, I hope you get that pin out, otherwise all this has been futile!!

I think Nanuq's idea of boing it up first is worth a try anyway, after all its the easiest and cheapest first attempt. If you Google Alum, I think it should be available from hardware stores. There are also a number of blogs which will tell you to protect steel, as it seems to be a well known solution for disolving stuck/broken drill bits in antique clock repairs. It disloves the bit, but doesn't attack the brass. However, I've never used or tried it, so can't confirm that. On the other repliy from Automatico, we may be going a little off piste for a watch website and so I will only say that as a shooter of 57 years experience I think that tough gun controls, as we have in the UK, are part of the answer. No legit gun owner has any problem with that and there is absolutely NO need for any normal individual to carry a pistol, or own a military based assault rifle, except club based shooters or collectors. The problem is much more complex in America, as the culture is much more deeply rooted than anywhere I have ever encountered elswhere in the world. Nevertheless, another part of the problem is that the 2nd amendment just didn't eveolve in the same way as it did elsewhere to allow for changes in society. The last time I was in New York I don't remember being chased by a bear or Indians for instance. What it needs is the public and government to just take SOME action, rather than excusing it all the time and blaming it on mental illness!! Anyway, it's not just the 2nd amendment that gets me going these days, you can include the morons that caused "sub prime" and crashed the banks and the UK economy in 2008 and the goons that forced Brexit. As for the social media and internet problems generally I couldn't agree more and avoid them as best as one can these days. he said writing a blog on an internet site!! I wrote a sci-fi book about that in 2014. It ultimately caused a level one extinction event and killed off the human race. Hey-ho, just be careful out there!! That's why I answered Legend's question as to why my profile picture is what it is. Just seemed appropriate. Suggest the admin team would like us to now restrict these subjects to personal e-mails if anyone wants to continue the arguments.

Hi Legend No real story really other than I tend not to take life seriously these days and as lifetrekker said, try to have a little fun every day. Stops me from suffering terminal brain freeze when watching the never ending chaos on the news each morning – like America’s terminal inability to deal with the second amendment for example etc etc etc and the NRA’s solution being that to arm the teachers will solve the problem!!! And that’s coming from a lifetime shooter (me) who fell in love with firearms at the age of 13. When choosing a profile photo it therefore seemed rather appropriate to translate all that into some pictorial form ie. Donnald Duck running away in obvious panic. Other than that, I’m fairly normal – although the wife wouldn’t necessarily agree.

I guess you have enough advice to last you a lifetime now. Do let us all know if it works.

Quite understand. It's good to see that some people still have a sense of humour in this dangerous world. I always start off from the point of view that everything can get worse and usually does!! Good luck LifeTrekker. Hope it works.

I guess it depends on just how much you value your bracelet. As for trying to disolve the pin, not sure if thats a joke. If not - best of luck with that one. As for touching it with a MIG wire I suggest you go down the pub and let someone else try that one. Come back when sufficiently lubricated not to notice the ambulance outside the house.

Hi. That's bad luck. Just from an engineering point of view you might try heating up the bracelet link locally to the hole as fast as poss before the heat can get right through to the broken pin. This should expand the hole in the link quickly (faster than the pin) and might just let you be able to pull the broken part free with a good pair of tweezers. Might take a couple of tries, but if you can move it out enough to grab with a good pair of sharp long nose pliers then you have it. This is fairly standard practice when trying to get siezed or stuck car parts, such as bushes, out when experiencing the same problem. Repeated heating and colling with a good penetrating oil may also help. It also of course works on inserts which have to be heat fitted in to a tight hole in an engineering component. Component is heated up first, then the insert is press fitted into the now larger hole. When cool its a very tight fit. Good luck.

Thanks for that. Much appreciated. Do you have any views on the new ARF version of the Seadweller? It looks very good, but until you get one in your hands, it's difficult to tell.

Can anyone answer this for me. I see on Intime's website they have the Sea-dweller 2017 Baselworld 126600 by ARF which I quite fancy. However, their version has the A2824 movement. The other version of the same watch is by VRF with an A2836 movement. I'm very familiar with the A2836 and have had very good results in both my Deepsea's, one of which (after several months of tinkering) keeps better time than my genuine Sub. What's the principal difference between the A2836 and the A2824? As I have plenty of spares for the A2836, that would be preferable, but the ARF version looks like its a better quality version. Any useful tips would be much appreciated. Have been away for a while, so sorry if this is revisiting something already covered. Thanks. Richard

No, I havn't asked the seller yet, as I'm a genuine Speedy owner and not looking for another. It was an academic question for interest only. I thought it might be possible to swap both the bridges (the main with 18 jewel markings) and the one with the exra jewel, which is in the correct place for the 18 jewel version. However, I'm fairly sure that the 18 jewel version didn't come out until much later than the serial number of this watch, or so I believe according to Chuck Maddox' comments The possiblilty of a marriage of parts is always present, and also very common in antique clocks. However, why anyone would do that to an old pre-moon version of this watch, hence completely cocking up its value, is beyond me. I also hadn't seen this version of the movement cover before with the [censored] around the edge and cut out's to allow for the winder and pushers. I've seen hundreds of the other standard type on watches with both 321 and 861 movements (like mine) but never one like this. The usual type has no [censored] and is a straight tight fit to the edge of the movement, not covering the winder/pushers. However, happy to hear from anyone who has seen this before. Looking at the movement back to back against mine and blown up as much as I can, it looks to be a genuine Omega and genuine parts. However, that doesn't answer the question how or why. The only thing that didn't look quite right to me was that where the calibre 861 is stamped on the movement (just under the balance wheel) there is usually a very well defined and clear Omega logo to the left of it. I can't see that on this one. The other worrying aspect is that I would expect any pre-moon speedy in good condition to be about 3 times the price. However, having seen many of the examples on e-bay being passed off as "original" and with the nuts polished off them, and one that's currently described as "pre-moon" but dated 1970, am I surprised - probably not!!. Apollo 11 landed on 20th July 1969, so anything after that is post moon and able to carry the appropriate engraving on the back -"First watch etc etc" in straight writing style. Well, that's a surprise, how does the word F L A N G E get deleted as "censored?? How else do you describe a projection at right angles to the main cover??

Here's one for the dedicated Speedmaster moonwatch guru's As I'm currently selling my lovely 145022-69 Speedmaster moonwatch (just after Apollo 11) on e-bay I'm keeping a close eye on others and their selling prices. So, a couple below mine is another which has got me a bit confused. This is the link to it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Omega-Speedmaster-Professional-Chronograph-Pre-Moon-Watch-145022-69ST-/252661825785?hash=item3ad3d180f9:g:6oAAAOSwHMJYP36F According to the description, it's a 145022-69 (like mine) with a 27 million series serial number. However, it's marked as 18 Jewel as opposed to the usual 17 jewel on the correct 861 movement. Now, I know there were some 18 jewel versions made, but according to a post in 2001 by Chuck Maddox I thought this was much later on and more common on the 1861 movement. I've never seen one on an 861 of this period. The watch also sports a movement cover I've never seen before, either on one like mine or much earlier. My question therefore is :- is this a genuine article, or yet anothet e-bay "ringer" the like of which i've seen so many? The give away might be the price. It's on at $1,950. That's seriously cheap for one that's supposed to be "pre moon" and according to the Omega official serial number list I have should be from around 1967-1968. By way of example, I wouldn't take less than $6,000 for mine, but then mine has only 9 years use out of its 46 year life. I've included a photo of the movement on this watch and have marked the position of what I'm sure is the 18th jewel with an arrow. I've also included a photo of the movement in my watch, from which you can see that this jewel is not there, as mine is the normal 17 jewel version of the 861. Any comment would be welcome

I have two Seadweller Deepsea's, one Noob and one non Noob, using the same bracelet. During the re-regulation of both over a period of months I've had the bracelets apart so many times I've lost count. Never had an issue. Ditto on the use of the correct size screwdriver. Also a good thing to cover the adjacent bits with masking tape, just in case you slip. Don't want to scratch it.

I also can't tell you if it's genuine, but others here probably can. However, from the purely commercial point of view ( since you say it's a dealer) you have possibly either found a complete ringer or a dealer who just shouldn't be in business given the internet access we have today and I doubt that, because 5 minuites on the internet will show up all sorts of examples for sale or sold. This link will show you what similar watches have fetched recently. https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/watches/rolex/submariner/ref-rolex-6538/lpi There are many other examples, so Is it possible that any competent dealer wouldn't know that? So, it shows a cse number of 383843. Have you checked that out first? That's where I'd start, although it's still no guarantee, as numbers can be fake, just like anything else.

Thought this might be useful to those wondering where to get their reps fixed/serviced in the UK. His name is Chris Heal and he's in his 60's and seems to know a thing or two. Just sent another spare A2836 movement I picked up with a date change problem. He's just fixed that and installed a new ETA date wheel all for £25, including sending back to me in France. His web tag is :-http://www.chealwatch.com He works on virtually anything, so might be worth filing this away for later.

I have two SD Deepsea's and both have the full glidelock with the lift up centre section for adjustment on the wrist. I'm fairly sure if it's got the new style divers extension it should have. I think I'm correct in saying that it's a standard fitment on the genuine, so if it's a genuine copy it should be the same. If you also check on "Intimes" website (a TD) they may have the same, but with better pics of the bracelet with more detail. With the ones I bought, you could see quite clearly that the centre section lifts up. I have no experience with the 2813 movement as all 3 of my reps have the 2836. However, if it's any use, I can tell you that all mine have responded to re-regulation way beyond what I expected. In fact, the Noob V6s DSSD is currently keeping pace with my Gen Submariner. Nevertheless, if you read the posts on this site made by those who have a lot of experience, I think I've been lucky and haven't had to have any serviced yet.