southcoast68

Good news indeed, although the prices on these movements will continue to rise faster than they would have already. I am sure ETA will use the "limited availability" as a reason for hiking prices. Cost on all of this is stedily going up anyways, and anyone wanting an ETA for a project will be well advised to get in before the cutoff if they want to save a few bucks. Cheers

Of course you do

One of the reasons this is all possible is that many manufacturers outsource the production of parts and materials to China based companies, this has been the case for a long time and is no secret. While companies like Rolex now produce most of thier parts and supplies in-house with no out sourcing (dials and other items used to be out sourced), other higher end manufacturers do still outsource. This business practice has afforded the Chinese better facilities, machining, and a better ability to produce luxury grade items for the legitimate market as well as the rep market. Now I do not know how many other watch manufacturers out source some of thier production, but in todays global economy, you gotta know its happening on a regular basis. Seems to me that if someone were to spend 5 figures on a "Swiss Made" watch, the buyer should be getting just that, a 100% Swiss Made watch, not a watch that may contain parts originated somewhere else. I beleive there are rumors of the Swiss eventually cracking down on the definition of "Swiss Made", and if they do, guess what? Gen prices will go up again making the purchase of REPS an even more attractive proposition to more folks. Earlier this year I bought a new car and on its sticker was full disclosure of the origin of its major components (engine from Germany, transmission from France) as well as its final assembly place. I wonder if the makers of luxury items were required to legally list the same information on thier price tags, what would it say, hmmmm. BTW, the car I bought was a Ford Mustang, an american icon created with components made in a global economy, and while you can't compare a Ford to a BMW or Mercedes in quality or price, it does proove that just becase something appears as being made in a certain place with certain parts, you never can truly know the whole story. Are GEN watches overpriced? Yes. Are they the coolest? Yes. Will I continue to collect watches? Yes, some GEN some REP, and that has nothing to do with whether I can afford a GEN, but it has everything to do with whether I can justify the price. Since I see the GEN values going only up from here, my collecting will eventually shift to other cool brands who's cost is more reasonable.

While I do agree with most of the discussion here, I do have a slightly different point of view, see if you agree. It would, at this time, be prudent for the GEN industry to do nothing against the REP industry. Why? Well consider this, the broad availability of reps through internet sales have made it dangerous to buy any high end brand through such channels. This, IMO, have given the following sales tactict to the GEN makers; "In todays market, the only way to ensure that what you are buying is genuine, is to buy it from a certified AD only". This would certainly put uncertainty into anyone considering purchasing any high end model on the 'Bay, and I think the GEN industry would prefer this. After all, Rolex et. al. would prefer to keep selling new watches to thier clients since they would make nothing in selling used pieces, and this uncertainty in internet sales would bring any would-be high end owners back to them. This would mostly apply to ROlex, Breitling, Panerai, Hublot, Patek, etc. Tag and Omega can be had through many discount outlets (Overstock.com, Costco, Shop at Home network, etc.) and even though their products are world-class, thier availability is a little more common through channels other than an AD. Considering this, do we still think that dealers offering grand websites offering credit card sales and instant shipping are a good idea for the hobby? As the quality and reliability of rep continue to go up, and they become more and more 1:1 super rep quality, the GEN industry will take more notice. For us to say that 0.1% of the rep buying public are most into Canal St. junk and that is what the GEN makers are paying attention to is a mistake from where I stand. We have already seen the story surrounding the Hublot Big Bang. Make no mistake about it, this is a world-wide community and we may very well have folks in the GEN industry reading these very posts. As was said above, a simple Google search can make rep finding easy these days and I am sure the GEN makers are well aware. Whether they can and/or will do anything about it is purely a guess on our part. Will the value of gens go down? No. As was stated by many here, as long as their are folks in the world who have the money and can justify the price of a gen, they will maintain thier value. However, anyone buying a GEN today would be well advised to keep ALL of the boxes and paperwork with the watch as this will be comming more and more of a necessity in authenticating a watch in the future. Just my slant on the subject at hand (and I have a pretty slanted mind ) Cheers

Congrats on your GMT, its a beauty. I hear what your saying about the bracelet too. My GMT had the same folded linker on it when I got it, most folks forget that back in the day Rolex bracelets were not anything fancy and were folded link in a lot of cases. I enquired at an AD on a replacement oyster, and they quoted me $850 for a new one . So I ordered an aftermarket jubillee for $50 and installed it myself. Before anyone asks, yes I still have the original oyster and no, its not for sale .

Hell, $59,500 is a bargain on that one. I recently got a catalog in the mail from Mayors jewelers that had one similar in it for $99,000 , that is just a wee bit too much bling for me.

Looks fantastic, congrats. I also have been using AutoCAD to do some date wheel work. I just brought in a scanned image and traced around the numbers with polylines and printed them on label stock like you did. Its a little tricky applying them, but the result is cool. Now you got me thinking of tearing apart my 1655 for a similar makeover . Applying the lume with a technical pen is brilliant, I never would have thought of that one. Thanks for the inspiration!!! Cheers

That is wayyy cool!!! I always knew there was something I liked about John. I love to listen to his song "Gravity" when I want to mellow out some. Thanks for sharing that bit of info.

Sometimes its not quitting but rather realising that the battle you are trying to win is not necessarily worth the trouble. New ETA movements are still available throught a few sources currently, so just starting over with a new one and keeping the troubled one for future experimentation and learning would be more feasible. I've got a Daytona A7750, seconds at six that was dead as a dorenail, so I decided to have a little fun with some light demolition . Removing the rotor was easy, removing the next part resulted in various parts falling all over my table in front of me . I didn't care, I figured this one was not worth the repair cost since it was an older 7750 and with what I can get in a Daytona rep now (better dial printing, slightly improved 7750, etc.), its better for me to replace the whole thing and save the parts for future learning experiments. My modding, reparing and learning are for me and me only anyway. Since I started this hobby, I have gained a solid respect for the folks who do the hard core modding. This kind of fine work is not for the faint of heart!!

Corgi's are cute even when wearing duct tape!!

I would be the last to pick apart someone elses choice in watches, everyone is different, and as long as you like it, then you need no validation from anyone else. That being said, I really do not understand this years new designs from Rolex. I can't really describe it other than to say that their newest designs are too "in your face". I do like the "rolexrolexrolexrolex" engraving around the inner bezel, anymore than that is overkill IMO. Diamond tiger stripes for the Date Just and that rediculous looking Yacht Master II are too much for me to look at. Its hard to believe that the same folks also came out this year with the new GMT Master II (the Stainless Steel version), its a nice update on a classic, not too much or too little. Cheers

Its not as fantasy as you think, this pic was taken from the Rolex website. I just wonder why the "6" is not orange coated as the rest

Have you cycled through all of the date numbers? How's the date wheel font and do all the numbers line up good in the date window opening? Damn this. I promised myself no more Rolex's for a while, I may have to break and get this one while its available. Thank you elprimerozen for the picture review!!

No "Date" in the Oyster line on a GMT Master II, makes me scratch my head, never seen one like that before. BTW - if any of these ever needed a good home..... , lol, great stuff guys!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll say that if the member from Timezone is really not loving his new Daytona and misses his sub, I'll trade him my noob LV for his Daytona and put him out of his misery

I got a two tone DJ case from roling in hungary earlier this year and it is fantastic! Very clean case with what looks like a replacement crystal. It also came with a real clean genuine dial.

I was just reading through the August edition of International Watch magazine and read an article covering the eventual exit of ETA from the movement supply end of things. The article by Elizabeth Doerr spotlights the company Sellita and thier plans to pick up where ETA leaves off and reports on thier development of 4 movements of thier own. These would be a date model and two different day-date models (26 jewel) as well as a 25 jewel GMT model with 42 hours of power reserve. These movements are reported to be designed around the existing standard ETA sizes, no complications are reportedly planned. A quote from company president Miquel Garcia in the article; "we work to do our job, to continue doing our work" and "I'm not involved in watch politics and wars. I treat all customers equally". Its a nice article with some pictures and exploded diagrams, if you can get access to this magazine, its worth a read. I'm thinking that Sellita movements may be available through the same channels as ETA's are avaiable now. Don't know how or if Sellita will play in the rep market in the future, but its good to know that for us hobbiests, the supply of good quality swiss movements should continue. Cheers

Sweeeeeeeeetttttttt looking!!! Congrats Nanuq!!! I happen to be wearing mine right now.

In addition, I wonder how many out there do have perfect NOS double red dials they were going to sell for less. If this one sells for 5k, they are going to say "gee my dial just went double in price with out me doing anything" even though its probably not worth that. I guess if I want my gen Omega moon watch, I'd better hurry before the current market catches up to them as well .

I'm sticking to my original point of view on this as well, like docblackrock, I think this is just stupidity. Again, why do people collect anything? It SHOULD be for the love and interest for the watch, although some do collect purely for investment gain, and those who do collect as investment would collect on complete watches that are in good condition already. Remember how the WIS faithful always say that original paperwork, boxes, tags and the like really hike up value? Where will this dial end up? In a SD put together from parts and sold for a kings ransom without any papers proving authenticity? Take a good look at this dials condition, notice the wear pattern at the center? Looks like it came out of a watch whose hands were rubbing the dial which to me says that the watch wasn't right for a long time. If this dial was perfect or NOS, I still would not agree with the price, but I would be able to at least accept it could sell for as much. Remeber folks, like a classic car auction, all you neeed is two getting into a bidding war, two that just have to have it, and when it sells for a ridiculous price, the presedence is set. Taking about the "Steve MqQueen" explorer (which nobody can prove that he had anything to do with), that watch when new was never a great seller for Rolex, maybe because the dial is confusing to read for some. Yet now, original pristine examples with boxes and paper work are seen on the 'Bay for aroung 30k. Used ones showing some wear I have seen with buy it now prices of 8k. This is a stainless steel watch, no gold or precious stones here. Much like its transitional model with the cream colored dial (model number escapes me), not a very good seller when new, now collectors pay a premium for. Many Daytonas from the sixties and seventies supposedly had thier dials and bezels switched if the customer wanted, just so jewelers could move them out, now they are on the 'Bay for between 50 to 60k. Are all these really worth that much!! Lets also remember that a lot of these vintage dials have many inconsistencies within the same model, and that a dial in bad shape would IMO be even harder to authenticate. I also think that for such a vintage peice, we deserve a picture of the back so we could even see if it were a SINGER dial. From that angle, can anyone really say that the coronet logo is centered perfectly over the L in Rolex like they say it should be. I won't question it if the seller has a good reputation, but then again I don't have to, I'm not buying it, and for whoever does, I really hope they get what they pay for!! I certainly understand the rising price of the world, thats nothing new. I remember being pleased to be making $5.50 an hour at my job, and complaining to be paying $1.40 per gallon for gas, that was a while ago. I also realize there is a difference between what something "costs" and what it is "worth" and IMO this dial is overpriced in both categories.

Ok, I wasn't going to post this in concern for the folks who read this forum who may have the funds to be in this level of watch collecting, but screw it. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS OUT THERE WHO HAVE MORE MONEY THAN SENSE!! Five grand for a metal disc with a hole in the middle! Oh well, like a freind of mine once said "there is an ass for every seat", again, sorry for any hurt feelings out there. For that kind of cash, I could have a lot of fun hunting for parts and biulding my own Daytona, submariner, vintage Explorer, etc. As far as someone passing on parts in like new condition for old worn looking parts for that "patina look", com'on. Folks seem to forget, patina in all collectibles, (antuque furniture, paintings, watches, etc.) is best when it is genuine from a lifetime of use and proper care. Purposely paying through the nose to make something look old and worn out, just doesn't make sense to me. I like the way alot of us here do our vintage watches, get good quality rep parts and make them look aged yourself, a lot cheaper and fun as well. Ok, rant over, carry on.

@docblackrock Yeah, Rolex has seemed to forget over the years just what made their brand so famous. Sure 'ol Wilsdorf and Davis are reponsible for the wristwatch as we know it today, and were the pioneers in perpetual movements, waterproof cases and the like, but today.... They made their mark with tough, well built and dependable watches like the GMT and Submariner. The new offerings they had at this years Basil (sp) watch festival were pretty dismal IMO. Instead of taking some of their sport watch line and making new updates (larger heavier sizes, AR coatings, etc.), they come up with the Yach Master II WTF!! The only thing they got out new right now that is worth a look is the new Milgauss, and thats only because it pays homage to the original with some nice design cues. I really don't think the world really needs a diamond tiger strip DateJust with a rubber band either, oh well. A freind of mine is on a waiting list for a SS Daytona black dial and is willing to pay the $$ for it. Myself, I aspire to what Ubi has done, build my own project watch, although I think my knowledge and budget are a little far from that level at this point.

These kins of threads make this hobby fun! I will be watching Sabbin's thread on his GMT project with great interest as well. IMO, the GMT Master never really gets the attention it desreves from the rep world, at least not the vintage ones.

Nanuq, seeing the photos of your GMT is what prompted me to take some better photos of mine to share. I have looked at a lot of photos of vintage GMT's and always noticed that mine had a different dial. Now for those of you who don't know what we are talking about, take a look at the hour markers on our GMT's and notice the following; 1. the dot hour markers are smaller than what we normally see, 2. even though it has a date function, the dial says "oyster perpetual" not "oyster perpetual date" (which was common on a few of Rolex sport watches of this period) and the "oyster perpetual" wording is much closer to the center of the dial than normal, 3. the hour markers are all a little farther away from the edge of the dial than what we see normally. I wish I had some comparison photos handy, but I don't. The numbers on my case are very faint to read without a loupe, but I can date mine to around mid to late '60's. Does anyone have info on just when the pointed crown guard case was produced? In John Brozek's book on Rollie replicas there is a picture of a 1675 that is a dead ringer for mine, crown guards and all, but I do think this watch had some parts replaced before I got it since the hands and bezel always did look brand new. Since I got it from an old school Rolex dealer in New England, I have got to think that if they serviced it, they may have had a supply of older NOS parts. The only thing on mine that is off is that the date does not center in the window , but its not important enough to me to screw with and I hesitate to send it in for service nowadays fearing that Rolex would replace parts in an attempt to "make it new again". Also, mine has the silver date wheel on it which is another driiference I have noticed on some others. Anyway, good stuff 'eh. Good luck with yours Nanuq and post some more pics when you get a bracelet for it.

Hi all Nanuq's thread showing his new acquisition of that wonderful GMT has inspired me to share some pictures of mine. It has an about a 11 year history with me now and it was the one I thought would get away. For those of you who are also at RWI, you may have seen this story before, for those who have'nt, enjoy. Its been 11 years now, and I am still glad I made the investment. Well, were talking about a Rolex GMT MASTER 1675 pointed crown guards model, who wouldn't be glad with that, but at the time, I almost didn't go through with the purchase. It was about March 1996 when I strolled into a Rhode Island Rolex dealer to see if they had anything used. I asked about a Tudor prince, and was shown a beautiful stainless and white gold model, used but still with its inner and outer boxes. In about an hour and $700, I was on my way home with my new Tudor feeling pretty darn spiffy about it. However, all the way home and for the next 6 months or so, I was feeling another strong pull. For I had also asked about any used Rolex possibilites in the house and was shown the watch pictured here. A 1968/69 GMT MASTER with blue/red bezel, and a real looker at that. You see, the hour in the shop was not spent on the Tudor, I had money to spend and the Tudor is just what I wanted. No, about 45 minutes of that hour was spent looking into the face of that GMT, and thinking madly of how I could get it for my own. Asking price was $1800 and that was too much for me right now, so I had to leave it behind and all the way home I thought of anything in the house I did not need any longer that I could sell to add to my new "Get the GMT fund". Fast forward to that following spring. I was busy, the weather was good and construction and building was going good (I worked for a surveying / civil engineering firm at the time). A couple of good sized subdivisions as well as many individual projects kept me in overtime that summer, so the fund was building slowly but surely. Around September or so, I decided it was time to re-visit the AD to see if anything was available as far as used Rolex was concerned. I was banking on that GMT no longer being there and would have to look at other models since I was sure it had sold already and if it hadn't, I would be pleasently suprised. However there was one sticking point, my fund had only grown to just shy of $1500, a few hundred short of the asking price for that GMT. The AD was about a half hour drive away, and on the way I thought to myself that if the GMT was still there, I would be strong and make an offer of $1400 and see if that would do it. I walked into the store and started browsing when the same salesman who sold me the Tudor approaches me to offer help. I told him that back in March he showed me a stainless steel GMT, and I was wondering if it was still available. Off to the safe he goes and comes back with the GMT!! it was still there!! He had told me that this was the only used GMT they had and that it was in stock for a little while. Then the most extrodinary thing happened, before I could even negotiate, he looked at the price sticker on the back and said something to the effect of "we have it marked at $1800, but I can let it go for $1400"!! I don't actually remeber saying "I'll take it", but I must have, because I soon found myself driving home on a wonderful sunny September afternoon wearing it. That was 11 years ago, back when a good rep was hard to come by and the only way to truly enjoy a watch named Rolex was to have a real one. Since then I have had many offers to buy it right off my wrist which I always turn down. I plan on having it put in my last will and testiment to be put to rest wearing it! Its the granddaddy of my watch collection, and always will be, my first Rolex. They come and go you know, many watches bought and sold. A gen Air-King, a gen DateJust and even that Tudor I spoke of earlier have all been sent to new homes, but the GMT stays, period. Thanks for letting me bore you with my story, and without further a-du (sp.), I present the pics, enjoy everyone and have a good week. Cheers Robert The jubillee it currently wears is an aftermarket replacement, the folded like oyster that it came with is in safe keeping.