Watchmeister

Yes, but I have always attributed the dial differences to the the fact that the lume sits in a metal "bathtub" on an 87 or La Bomba which for whatever reason darkens the markers. If you look at a gen 24A (the only one without metal tubs around the hour markers) the difference is almost non-existent. Whether it has to do with reflection, different base color (dial or tub underneath) or the tritium being impacted by the metal surrounds I don't know. I do believe that in the long run it all settles down into a browner color based on older t gens I have. That was how we decided on the coloring on the 27A.

Congrats, it is definitely gen (and looks nothing like the one in the link). Wear it well.

E- The 24A is definitely an acquired taste. It gives it an art deco feel and causes the watch to visually pop off the wrist. I prefer polished bezels on the gens too. B- The lume is a tad yellower than the 27A. Also the hands are purposely whitened and lightened just a little bit more than the dial as it is the appearance on gen subs. For whatever reason the tritium on the dial is always a little browner and darker than the hands - especially on the submersibles.

I think I would stick with Nanuq's gen dial for reference. I know that computer monitors mess everything up but I have seen two up for auction in the last 3 months at Christie's, they looked like Nanuq's and were priced as if untouched dials. Beautiful watch though.

Thanks gents for your kind words. Ziggy has done his usual stellar job. And all you followers can thank me later for being the guinea pig. :laugh:

Here is another 2 year project. As usual, big thanks to Ziggy for another wonderful outcome. Start with a first generation 24A, then add the following mods: - Polished bezel - Remove hour marker bezels and relume pearl, hands and "enlarged" hour markers - Lello datewheel - Improved crystal/cyclops from the 199 - And gen crown of course :smile:

In that case, best of luck and have fun.

Are any of the projects 42mm or bigger. I do not know my IWC's. Are any of the newer larger Inge's?

Chieftang- If you love the anthracite dial try the 170. It is a submersible on bracelet with tritium on anthracite dial with polished ss and titanium. Total of 600 were made and so it is fairly unique.

Pug- Nice review as always. On the inner bezel, do you line it up by leaving the ratchet in between clicks on the rotator? If you do, do all the minute markers line up and the hours are properly centered. Lastly how does the spread between the digits on the "10" and "15" on the inner rotating bezel compare with the gen. On the Cousteau they "cheated" by widening the numbers. These were all flaws on the Cousteau so I am curious.

On the handwinds, the tritium based older watches seem to be getting $1,000-2,000 premium versus later watches with L swiss L. This is based on empirical study not data analysis though. On the submersibles it is way too early to tell but I have noticed that a couple of models have switched over to L Swiss L and so on say the 24 and the 25 that means there will be a finite number (albeit large one) of t swiss t with L's being produced going forward. I do think it is more relevant to the handwinds as it is way too early to tell if this will happen to the subs. If they stopped making 24 and 25 subs in the next 2-3 years there would be more t swiss t than l swiss l watches.

88 and 161 are two different animals so try them on before you buy them. 161 with the mix of polished steel and titanium as well as bracelet is much blingier. I have a similar one and I wear it less than my traditional strap watches. I use it as my dress not-gold dress watch. Between the mixed materials and tapered bracelet it is less "reppable" per se. The 88 is a traditional strap based PAM. So the question is whether you want a uniquer but inflexible bracelet based watch or do you want to play around with straps. In my case I elected to mod an older 2893-based GMT to close to perfection and use that as my traditional strap based GMT. The other thing you might want to think about when talking about your first gen is whether you want to go with an older tritium based model. You will save money and as the subs are converting to L swiss L I would guess they will ultimately hold their value better. Last point, on the bracelet PAM's, if you go that route, shop carefully as you can find some real price differences. The standard prices range from $7500-$8,000 for brand new from AD to $6300-$6,750 in the secondary market. But you can occasionally find them for substantially less. Watch the risti sites and Ebay items from people that do not sell and send them messages. You can often find folks who are dying to buy the new model but need the liquidity. After all PAM fans are PAManiacs.

Hey guys- Omni, Ryya- Great to hear from you guys. I guess Jetmid brings out the best in all of us.

I actually have a shirt from the Cali GTG with Jetmid's name on the back. I don't know if they are still around but there were a couple of older members who actually did the research on Jetmid. I hope they notice this thread.

M- I have to agree.

3717 is not the one to buy a gen of. I agree with the dial comment. What I instantly look for when looking at a 3717 as to whether it is a rep is the 12,3, 6, and 9 markers. On the rep they are way to pronounced (read as fat). If you have one out of the box with reasonable day/date wheel alignment it could be the best out of the box rep.

The crown guard may fit well against the case but the crown guard itself needs work. The vertical gap between the lever and the body of the CG is way too large. The lever is also not sitting properly in the crownguard when it is shut. That may be a function of how it is contacting the crown. Finally interior finish of the cg hole is not great either.

Well, if you were the CEO of a company with one popular watch model and you were participating on the rep forums and came upon perfect replicas of your top watch for 1/10th the price wouldn't you be aggressive. :laugh: On the lack of ceramics someone had posted that the original ceramic bezels were coming from the OEM supplier and they were caught by HBB when the CEO saw them here. I didn't know they were completely gone though. I thought dealers had simply taken the opportunity to mark up the reps.

So far he has about $1500 in bids on a $3400"ish" watch. But I am sure he will reduce the ridiculous prices on the crownguard, case and movement. $1,400 for the movement? If he had thought it thru he would have parted a watch with an E series movement. The only rep you would consider putting a gen movement at anywhere near that price is a fiddy and that has the E series bridges. $1000 for case with crownguard? You can buy a PAM power reserve movement for $900 so I figure the movement is worth $600 or so. Case and crownguard maybe $500. Crown maybe $180. So add my aggressive guess of $1,300 for the pieces with no bids plus the $1,500 for those pieces with bids on them and I am guessing he will not get out whole unless he bought it very well. But you never know.

I am of no help except to say the screws do not do anything on the chrono avenger. There have been a few members who have replaced the rep bezel with a gen so at least you know it is possible. I do remember the bezel is press fit so you are going to have to risk "pulling it off". I have a super avenger gen bezel waiting for the day when I find an old school super avenger. Try pm'ing Discovery110 I think he did it on either an Avenger or Super Avenger.

And if you want to spend money you can buy reps of the two pin pushers made by IWC from a dealer. As fitmic says, two toothpicks will suffice.

Yours is the 3rd generation which is generation 2 with the 250/196 dial added. As always one step forward and one step back. The first gen had the best case (correct bezel height and spread on the case) but its dial faults were an extra tick mark or two around 12 and the lumed hour marker at 6 extending too high. Second generation came from a different factory. The dial on the second generation fixed the tick mark but the date window ended up being slightly out of place relative to the 4 and 5 markers. Finally the third generation has the same 2nd gen case and the dial you see above. I guess when it came time to make a new batch of dials they went with the 2 for 1 in making one batch of recessed subdials for 250 and 196 as mentioned above and of course did not bother brushing the bezel as it should be for the 250. Here is first gen rep as point of reference:

I agree with Archibald. I looked again at the picture and the face of the crown (where the cg lever contacts the crown) is showing a "starburst" finish. The gen's I am familiar with have no finish other than polished on polished crowns.

I would guess it is either 40mm or fake. The lip looks to shallow relative to gen 44mm crowns. If you are interested ask him what the width of the lip is. On the ti crowns they are 1.2 and so they do fit the hand winds. but you will likely have to open up the case tube.

Posting this post without working directly with the dealer to see if they will equitably solve it is unfair to everyone. You are not going to embarras a dealer into doing the right thing because you have not given him the chance to do the right thing. If he does not fix the situation criticize away in the public forum.