Accurate Newman Daytona opinions?

[gioarmani]

I just had a slew of RWG threads open in separate windows while out grabbing lunch, until (I'm guessing) my cat decided to step on the keyboard or something, and now I come back to find Firefox shut down.

Needless to say, I don't care to fish through which threads I was looking at, but I did come across this picture:

...and was wondering if this was from the seller "Honpo", and if so--forgive the noobness--how would I go about acquiring this piece?

Long and short of it: I'm just getting into the classic Daytonas--not sure if this piece is technically a "Newman"--and want a relatively good one with this cream dial, WITHOUT screw-down pushers and without dropping a small fortune (after having my third 116520 crap-out last week, due to a slipping cannon pin...and not the seconds transfer gear...) and would like to answers to a few questions:

1) Anyone know if this is the ubiquitous model # 6235? If not, which model number would this be?

2) How accurate to gen is this piece?

3) If it is relatively accurate (subdial spacing, dial print, case, etc.), how do I go about purchasing it?

4) Would it still look accurate to gen, on a Rolex riveted style bracelet, and more importantly, would it fit?

5) Would this be a 7750 movement or one of the supposed lemania copies, and how reliable is the movement?

I see the website watermaked on the pic, but my Hiragana reading is rusty and my Kanji is practically non-existent.

If the answer to most of the questions leads the experts to believe this specific rep to be a piece of garbage, can one of the true experts on older Daytonas point me in the direction of one with this dial that is good?

I know this seems a bit much for a tenured member, but from Ubi to Spin to others, I know there's a great wealth of knowledge on these boards and both need and appreciate their assistance.

Thanks guys,

Todd

Edited August 17, 2009 by gioarmani

[ubiquitous]

Looks like a replication of a 6239; nice non-Oyster dial and pump pushers. Details look decent- Nice thin crown, asymmetric pusher spacing. Dial is okay; that's always going to be the weak link in any vintage Cosmo. Probably a Venus manual wind inside looking at the subdial spacing.

It is a Honpo pic; unfortunately, he doesn't sell outside of Japan, so you'll need someone to help with a proxy buy or similar kind of transaction.

If you're after a nice vintage Daytona, hit up Spin for one of his 7760 DW's. That's a good way to go, methinks Not sure if he can do a non-Oyster, non-screw pusher model, but it's worth asking about.

[gplracer]

Here is Spin's 6239: Spinmaster 6239 I remember a thread where he had given a dial a vintage look with a cream dial. I think it was coolfire's watch but I am not sure.

[gioarmani]

Excellent Thank you all.

Edited August 17, 2009 by gioarmani

[Chronus]

Here is Spin's 6239: Spinmaster 6239 I remember a thread where he had given a dial a vintage look with a cream dial. I think it was coolfire's watch but I am not sure.

Coolfire's is the first and last of his vintagized dials... it's too expensive a process to be worthwhile!

And I recommend spinmeister as well... go for his 7760 version and you'll get a very close one.

And ask for that particular dial, I've seen that on one of his other watches I think

but if you really wanna go crazy, i can get a gen case for around 10-11k

[trailboss]

Ya, without going crazy on a J&W build Spin would be your best bet if he can/will do you one.

Of cause if you do have five or six grand to spend J&W would be the way to go. Either a case or a complete watch. Cant find a 6235 there ATM but here is their 6239.

Model 6239, S.S case

Genuine valjoux 72 conversion 722

Custom case, custom engraving

Genuine crown, Tube and crystal

36 mm bezel 300, Gununie pushers

after market dial Paul newman

Stainless steel grade 316

1 year warranty, $6.500

Case only $1650

Dial, pushers etc also available.

Nice hey?

Col.

[ubiquitous]

A very nice looking watch, save for that mangled center seconds hand...

Actualy, now that I look at it again, I take issue with all the subsidiary hands; they're way too fat!

[gioarmani]

Minus the hand fluke, that is a damn nice piece...

[MarkJ]

Todd, the Newman 6239, 6241, etc are extremely difficult to match to the real one. The one you picture is easy to spot as fake from 10 feet away. The one pictured by the other member is closer but costs a heck of a lot. I would shy away from Newman's if you're looking to wear in the presence of people who know the dial. They are a work of art and involve a lot of work in making them. But, that's my opinion.

[gioarmani]

Sounds wise though, albeit disappointing.

[gioarmani]

How believeable is this piece?"

It has the non-screw down pushers, but does how does the dial size up for accuracy in relation to the case and a riveted style bracelet?

[vlaletom]

i guess trusty's will have the usual flow of less quality vintage daytona.

wrong dial marking shoul not be a Rolex Oyester Chrnograph, (i guess factory deliver the same in 6239/41 than the one they make for 6263/65). and anyway it's sitting to high on the dial for the ROC (the bottom of "chronograph" usually align with the top of the subdial).

of course wrong subdial spacing.

The bold font for the red daytona, is a Mk2 black dial wich would even be wrong for a 6263/5 model with that crown & band, but anyway the 6239 was discontinued in 69

subdial don't have enough clearly visible concentric engraved circle.

center chrono hand looks too short.

case is probably too fat (or at least caseback) since it's not housing a V722

somtime wrong size (ex lug size for a 20mn band)

this crown doesn't look good to me.. it try to mimic the old style 24-700 (and not the new 24-703) but i don't find it convincing..

And stay away from rep riveted bracelet even if this one looks to have the correct enfgraving for a rivted 6239 (wich is 7205/71)

Reps are allway way to thick, gen are actually quite thin.

And i think the gen 7205 like the 7835 are only 12mmn wide at the end, not 14mn like a classical 78350, anyway they where dicontinued in 67 ...

so i'll say not too good, of course all those flaw would only be seen by a rolex colector not the usual Jhon Do...

just my 2 cent...

[Toadtorrent]

Me being a usual John Do actually like this one:

I know it's the wrong size (40mm), symmetrical pusher, I THINK the subdial spacing is too wide because of the Seagull movement, the ROC is bit too heavy, some probably find the "tritium" dots too yellow (I don't mind that), and the crown is too large...but hey...how many people do you know of have come across a $50,000 vintage 6263?

I like the movement (solid and reliable). The Spinmaster one is nice...but 3x the price.

[vlaletom]

well i of course don't expect the watch to be perfect at that price but i think this one would be deceptive in the end knowing there is better floatting arround...

actually on trustys i like those 2 better :

http://www.tt88time.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_103&products_id=1526&zenid=663d1051f81cf7346803d5c2e8099bfb

http://www.tt88time.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_103&products_id=1530&zenid=663d1051f81cf7346803d5c2e8099bfb

at least the dial are non ROC.

If i was to buy a not so realistic rolex chrono, i would go for the very old model like those

http://www.jpc8118.com/rldv10015-daytona-chronograph-whiteblue-asia-7750-p-525.html

i like how they looks and finding a better option is olmost impossible anyway (i mean without buying a phong 5k$)

[TeeJay]

I just came across this one, and thought it looked quite nice (probably quite inaccurate though ) What do folks think?

[AllergyDoc]

Me being a usual John Do actually like this one:

I know it's the wrong size (40mm), symmetrical pusher, I THINK the subdial spacing is too wide because of the Seagull movement, the ROC is bit too heavy, some probably find the "tritium" dots too yellow (I don't mind that), and the crown is too large...but hey...how many people do you know of have come across a $50,000 vintage 6263?

I like the movement (solid and reliable). The Spinmaster one is nice...but 3x the price.

I bought this one from Silix a year or so ago. I asked for a Seagull model but got a 7750. The hour subdial should be tracking the hour hand. (Silix has never sold the one with the fixed hour subdial, to my knowledge.) It was a very nice watch and very accurate time-keeper, but too light for my tastes.

[hackR]

wearing my recently acquired "vintage" 6263 today (RWG member sale)...an a7750 - seconds at 9...

and yessssss - i know it's flawed, but IMO it looks good...and it works like a champ!...R

[MarkJ]

Good non-Newman dials, most of them shown. TeeJay, I would say the lettering and numbers are not white enough. The overall look is pretty good though.

[Demsey]

but hey...how many people do you know of have come across a $50,000 vintage 6263?

of course all those flaw would only be seen by a rolex colector not the usual Jhon Do...

Yup. I'm very fortunate to own a gen. vintage Cosmo., am very well aquainted with the watch, since I was able to tell time wanted one, and too with the flaw and drawbacks of the replicas having focused on them obsessively for years and years on RWG (do any of the old timers remember 'Halley' on the old RWG? The man knew his 6263's well and afore a lot of the heavy weights here ever Googled 'replica') . Yet and still, the real screaming flaw, even the symmetrical pusher models, is the pristine out-of-the-box state of the 'replica'. Those would indeed be Toady's 50K specimen. Mods there can be well achieved in great depth or casual external patina only. It can go by degrees. No one should deny the replica for minutia. Afterall, the WIS's obsessions have their place, but 'in the style of........' hommage should not be denied.

I would cast a vote going the 'Spinmaster' DW route. If money is an object, then demure the Valjoux and opt for the 7750. They are such a 'score' with respect to the hobby; 'replica', and despite my good fortune, still want one. If merely for 'paste'.

[hackR]

[TeeJay]

Good non-Newman dials, most of them shown. TeeJay, I would say the lettering and numbers are not white enough. The overall look is pretty good though.

I agree, a bit too grey, but then again, who's going to notice in everyday life

[MarkJ]

I would say I'm somewhat familar with these pieces. Here's one made to spec without print.

Edited August 19, 2009 by MarkJ

[gplracer]

Did you make that Mark? The spinmaster 7750 route is the best for the money. Second would be the spinmaster route with a V72 if he still does them. Then you would not have to put up with all of the headaches of assembling and having people tell you that the movement does not fit and on and on and on....... There are many posts here about people stressed while their 6263 is at the watchmaker. Some are in that situation right now.

[AllergyDoc]

Yup. I'm very fortunate to own a gen. vintage Cosmo., am very well aquainted with the watch, since I was able to tell time wanted one, and too with the flaw and drawbacks of the replicas having focused on them obsessively for years and years on RWG (do any of the old timers remember 'Halley' on the old RWG? The man knew his 6263's well and afore a lot of the heavy weights here ever Googled 'replica') . Yet and still, the real screaming flaw, even the symmetrical pusher models, is the pristine out-of-the-box state of the 'replica'. Those would indeed be Toady's 50K specimen. Mods there can be well achieved in great depth or casual external patina only. It can go by degrees. No one should deny the replica for minutia. Afterall, the WIS's obsessions have their place, but 'in the style of........' hommage should not be denied.

I would cast a vote going the 'Spinmaster' DW route. If money is an object, then demure the Valjoux and opt for the 7750. They are such a 'score' with respect to the hobby; 'replica', and despite my good fortune, still want one. If merely for 'paste'.

What a fabulous watch to have! I don't recall you posting about this Daytona before. Why would you want the modern one if you have this one?

[MarkJ]

I think you're right on. That would be my choice for the money too. And, if you're looking for the perfect copy, it's next to impossible to find unless you make it yourself. Remember the Texas dial Newman's? They were pretty good copies but lacked a few particulars.