jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 I finally had a little spare time so I decided it was time to install some proper spring bars, from ofrei.com, into my trevorwatch budget DRSD. The biggest problem with this seemingly simple "upgrade" was that the existing lug holes were too small, as it appears they always are. No problem, I had a fresh set of drill bits so it should be a piece of cake. I mounted my drilling fixture into my mill and opened up the lug holes to the proper size, drilled through the band and end-links so the new spring bars would fit through, re-assemble, and tweak the end-links. It seems like all reps come with these itty-bitty (actually .040" diameter) external lug holes instead of the proper size hole all the way through. I suppose it's so they can give the appearance of having thru lug holes while still utilizing the cheap skinnier spring bars. I suppose this looks better than no hole at all... When ripping this beastie apart I felt that trevor had been truthful when he said the a21j version of this watch was the same casework as the ETA version. I was skeptical (even though it felt like quality on the outside) but as soon as the cover was off I noticed a couple things not normally seen on a "bargain-basement" rep. These were a brass movement spacer/retaining ring and screws to secure the movement! The usual budget jobs I have disemboweled had plastic spacer/retainer rings so this was a definite step up. I stuck a .040" drill through the lug holes and found they were not really straight. This didn't really surprise me and each hole was crooked in a different way! Drilling these on the mill (a drill press would have probably worked just as good) seemed to true the holes up pretty good: After deburring the new holes I installed (after drilling them out) the band and end-links - which I would "tweak" later: While I was inside I investigated the He valve and determined it opened in the proper direction. I had planned on epoxying the valve but finding it operated in the correct direction, and the valve "plunger" had an O-ring, I decided to just grease it and reassemble. I also bent the retainer just a bit (to give a bit more spring pressure) before reinstalling it to the valve plunger. When reassembling the watch I found that it looked (and felt) like the brass spacer ring was actually contacting the end of the valve plunger which, in my opinion, would be slightly opening the valve - I'm glad I never wore this thing into the shower! The ring had a "flat" filed into it at the He valve location but it was not enough. I used a round file to put a "notch" into the ring so it would no longer contact the valve plunger. All should be water-tight now. The bezel had never turned as smoothly as I'd like and the insert did not look to be seated evenly so I decided there was no better time to remove it than the present. After removing the bezel I found some little "glue-balls" under it. After removing them it rotated very smoothly. I think the glue was from the bezel insert which had a "copious" amount of a glue that resembled weatherstrip adhesive securing it. The uneven glue "layer" was also the cause of the insert looking higher in some spots. Now that there is only a very thin even layer of glue between bezel and insert the insert is even and properly "recessed". After a good rinse and blow-dry it was just a matter of reassembling. I don't think it turned out too bad and when you add the $4 price of the proper spring bars to the cost of the watch I am still well under $100! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Good Job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks! It's amazing how such a little thing can make such a difference. Before I started "hanging out" in joints like this I would have never known the difference - maybe ignorance IS bliss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Another nice MOD from the TightWad King! LOL! Good one, J- F- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Very nicely done, my man [Edit to add] Out of curiosity, does anyone know if this is the way the HE valve operates on the modern SDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 T, on the DSSD reps (on he V5 anyway) it can be depressed from the outside, this one opens when pushed from the inside. The rep DSSD valve operation seems totally wrong to me unless it's supposed to be a manually operated release valve, which I doubt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 T, on the DSSD reps (on he V5 anyway) it can be depressed from the outside, this one opens when pushed from the inside. The rep DSSD valve operation seems totally wrong to me unless it's supposed to be a manually operated release valve, which I doubt... As far as I know, the valve should not be depressable from the outside, as that would allow water pressure to open the valve and flood the case, which wouldn't be the best idea I was thinking of the Sea-Dweller which is the same age as the 16610 Submariner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gplracer Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Real informative post Justin. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks, gpl. Hopefully people will see that an $85 watch can be built to the same quality as a $200 watch! I think the 2813 powered DSSD from ETZ illustrates this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Good work there, and that HE valve actually looks like the the gen design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Looks good JB. I have basically the same budget DRSD which I bought from Paul in 2005. It came with an eta and cost only $139! Things were cheaper back in those days. It has the same HE valve which is a pretty good copy of the gen, a silver datewheel and it came with a nice 93150 hollow mid link band w/ a 'one off fantasy' clasp w/ the Rolex logo on the side, rather than centered. You can pop out that little metal ringed pearl and glue in one of the small all acrylic pearls from someone like Nostalgia_2000 on ebay. I was thinking we could compare serial numbers, but mine doesn't have one- just says stainless steel at 6 o'clock. Mine has a nicer domed plastic crystal, but you can't change it out for a T-39 because this watch is just slightly smaller than a gen. Now days, I'm just hanging on to mine to recycle the 2836-2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinamm20 Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 hope that my little project will looks as nice :-) Need to take my HE valve apart to see if there is a seal. looking great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Nice j. The correct springbar mod is key to 'at a glance' on the wrist. $4 ? You cheap bastard. Love it! Definately kicks then rep up a notch. @ T'J Yes. The operation of the HEV is 'out' only "Operating HEV" as advertised by collectors is merely an acknowledgement that the valve is 'animated'. To assume any water resistance or actual H gas scavenging maintained in a so equipped rep is foolish. The 'epoxy' fix is the only way to go. An arbitrary excerpt from my archive: COMEX divers not only needed solutions for water resistance at extreme depth, they also faced the danger of explosive decompression caused by helium penetrating the interior of the watch (divers breathed the mixture of oxygen and helium within their hyperbaric chamber after lengthy deep sea dives). To maintain a pressure identical to that underwater, the mixture in the hyperbaric chambers remained the same during the different phases of work and rest periods. This system was designed to eliminate the need to depressurize the chamber after each phase of work. Before returning to free air, and depending on the depth attained, a period of depressurization was necessary to equalize the internal and external tension of the human organism. Though the process of depressurization is slow, the gas that accumulated inside the watch, having no means to escape fast enough, exploded the crystal off the watch, thereby risking injury to those inside the chamber and severely damaging an expensive watch. To make more lay sense out of the above know that helium, an extremely small atomic mass. diffuses through solids at three times the rate of 02. Where H20 and 02 cannot, H e can surpass the trip-loc system easy peasy lemon squeezy and certainly will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 goat, I have ordered the "pearl" and would like to find a more correct crystal. Problem being most of the crystal listings don't have any dimension information so even if I measure the current crystal it's not much help! marina, I'm sure your's will look every bit as good, probably better since you have a more correct looking crystal to work with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Info on original Rolex Hev patent here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 freddy, interesting link, thanks! The one in this rep is constructed the same other than the shape of the head of the "plunger" or "plug". I have ordered the Clark's pearl and now just need to decide which crystal to get. The current crystal has an OD of 30.30 mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Great project and very informative! Thanks guys! @Freddy - great write up on the He Valve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the info on the HE valve construction/operation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 JB, you've got to measure OD and ID for the crystal. Like I say, this is a chinese watch, so Rolex Tropics may or may not fit. I couldn't fit a T-19 or a T-39, ordered both from Ofrei. Couldn't fit a gen bezel insert either- finally got lucky and popped out the pearl and fit the all acrylic pearl from Hong Kong in there- maybe from watchesandparts on ebay. This watch here -from Paul is another of the CN reps- same smaller case, I got it w/ an ETA for $150. Waterproofed it, great beater also. I think it and the DRSD are basically the same cases- just slightly wrong on the dimensions, but same construction as the gens w/ the retaining ring holding the crystal in place. They're just a little too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 As I've never had a plexi crystal off let me make some assumptions and y'all tell me if I'm wrong. The crystal is place over a lip on the top of the case and then the ring that the bezel snaps into is pressed over the crystal and this "squeezes" the crystal the crystal between the ring and and "lip" providing the seal. It would be an easy matter to measure the case, ring, and crystal and compare them to the dimensions of an original but apparently these dimensions do not exist "in the wild" as I've never had any response despite numerous requests for these values. I guess I'll just have to be content with popping in the Clark's pearl when it gets here and call it fini! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 You've got it. Pop the bezel off and then there is a tension ring that holds the crystal down on the case. The crystal fits down over the inside ring of the case, then you press the tension ring on over the crystal and snap the bezel back on. The bezel has a little 8 sided paper clip like spring that holds the bezel on the tension ring lip. Finding a matching crystal is tough- like you say, the dimensions don't just exist in the wild. I guess that's why everyone likes the MBK's so much- you can fit a T-19, T-39 or a T127 to all of those vintage cases fairly easily. I've got some pages at work of the G&S crystals, CousinsUK has some stuff in their online catalog, but a matching crystal is tough to find. The chinese just build these watches from scratch- at least that's my theory- and they don't follow original dimensions, they just make their own from what I can figure. they've probably sold 5-10,000 of the DRSD, maybe. I read one time long ago that Rolex makes 750,000 watches a year. China makes 7,500,000! Lord knows how many are reps! Edit: OK, I popped the crystal on my DRSD- ID 28.17mm, OD 30.51 Bezel insert OD 36.52, ID 30.63 The insert is close to a 315-5513, which is 36.5 and 30.5 as I recall, I tried an aftermarket 5513 insert on my DRSD, but the ID was too tight- would have to file the inside to make it fit the CN DRSD. Also did a quick check on my CN 5513- OD of the crystal was 30.43, didn't pop it off to check ID. ID of the bezel insert was 30.64- basically the same as the DRSD- like I said earlier, I think the two watches are the same cases essentially. Here's a link to Ofrei's Rolex crystals- Sternkreuz makes a T-19- 30.5 OD, ID 27.9 But the actual ID was just a tad too big- I tried one on my DRSD- it measured 28.3 w/ my calipers, just a little too big on the ID- floats around. But maybe one of these T-19 or T-39 would work for you- they do vary some. http://www.ofrei.com/page419.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thanks, that'll give me a starting point. I guess I need to make me a retaining ring puller and do some measuring on this one to make sure. Maybe that'll be next weekend's project as I need to "whittle" the CGs on this one a bit anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 All you need is a razor blade, or a utility knife blade- tap it under the ring against the case- move it around, you'll probably pop off the crystal too. Try not to touch the inside of the crystal. You can pop the crystal out of the ring w/ your thumbs. Maybe you'll have better luck w/ an aftermarket crystal. They do vary. Or you'll end up w/ a bunch of leftover crystals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gplracer Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 It would be nice to have a vintage sub! It makes me want to sell my extra DW 6263 (7750). Heck I should only need one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Mr. Goat, I'm thinking that even if a crystal has a bit too small of an ID I could possibly turn a spacer ring to "shim" out the existing case so that a more standard crystal would fit, all other things being equal. gpl, I'm starting to like the vintage look more and more. In fact, the last 4 of the last 5 watches I've bought have been "vintage" models. Don't tell anybody, but Silix has a budget COMEX Vintage Sub on special right now for an unbelievably low price. I've just ordered a couple... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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