Misleading ad or I'm just blind?

[Guest alan_sony]

Hi all, my apologies if this is the wrong place to post this up but I wanted to know what have to say about my experience buying a watch from fellow member SliverG.

I bought a Rolex Daytona from him about 2 weeks back from this thread: http://www.rwgforum.com/topic/106767-sold-ss-daytona-with-a7750-secs-6/page__p__742493__fromsearch__1&#entry742493, In the post, it was stated that the chronograph cannot be continued after stopping once and that it can be fixed for it to work properly. Since I do not use the chronograph much on my watches, I decided not to fix it.

I gotten the watch last week and tested the watch. Indeed the chronograph did not work well but that was what I paid for. However, when I wore it for the first time, I realised the watch had a power reserve of less than a few hours, stopping on me endlessly. On further inspection, I can see the serial number of the watch from the gaps of the endlinks.

Now, when I asked sliverG about the power reserve of the watch, I got this reply:

"I clearly stated to you previously AND in the original sales post that the watch needs to be serviced. Why else do you think I would sell this $300 watch to you for $140? Take a look at the original sales post. You knew that when buying it that it had issues."

However, I did ask about the faults one last time before buying the watch.

From me:

"The chronograph is dead right?

If US$130 is fine with you, will pay by paypal as soon as possible.

Thanks "

Reply from sliverG:

"Hi,

I am going to politely decline $130. I will accept the $130 if you can pay for shipping too, otherwise I can do $150 and I will pay for your shipping.

The chronograph is NOT dead. It works fine. The only issue is that you cannot resume the chronograph once it has paused. For example, you can start the chronograph by pressing the top button. If you press the top button again, it will pause the chrono. Normally, you have to press the button again to resume the chrono, but it does not resume. This is a VERY easy fix. The pusher just needs to be re-aligned again (standard procedure). I do not know how to do this, because I am scared to work on the 7750 movement - I don't know much about it."

So, after we agreed at $140, I promptly paid and in about 2 weeks later, I got the watch and thats when I realised that something was not right with it apart of the chronograph.

Now, gentlemen, I ask for you help.

I have asked for a refund from SliverG as if I had known that the watch had a power reserve problem, I would not have bought it. SliverG asked me to post this issue on the forum and ask for opinions if he should proceed with a refund.

If you guys do agree that I should get a refund, thank you! If you guys do not agree that I should get a refund, guess I may have to fix this beauty up!

Thanks guys for your help!

[TeeJay]

If the power reserve was a known flaw at the time of sale, it should have been disclosed. Just to clarify, are you referring to the power reserve while the watch is off the wrist for observation, or is it stopping while it is actually being worn? I hope you manage to get an amicable resolution, best of luck

[Guest alan_sony]

Stopping while it was being worn over a day. Nope, power reserve was not disclosed then. Yupp, I have trust in SliverG, he has been a gentlemen all this while.

[TeeJay]

Stopping while it was being worn over a day. Nope, power reserve was not disclosed then. Yupp, I have trust in SliverG, he has been a gentlemen all this while.

If it was stopping while being worn, that could indicate that the movement needs a service. To be fair, I once sold a watch to a friend where the movement had been serviced (twice) only a month or so previously, yet for some reason, it just died about a month later. Let's hope things can be resolved

[RWG Technical]

Power reserve and stopping endlessly while being worn - have nothing in common.

An "Unserviced" watch is just that, unserviced and unknown. Unless it's serviced, cleaned, oiled, adjusted, etc, there are many things that could cause the watch to work intermittently, the original owner clearly stated that it wasn't serviced.

This is a seconds at 6 model, the most unreliable model ever produced, especially when not serviced and with all the gears in place. As far as I am concerned, the watch is behaving exactly as I would expect it to...

The original owner has also been a member for over a year, it is doubtful that he would intentionally sell the watch without disclosing all the defects, defects he was aware of.

I side with the seller, I don't think he did anything wrong or mislead you.

[kbh]

My question is why would anyone buy a seconds at 6 Daytona with a dodgy movement. I wouldn't buy one that works perfectly for $140. With only 8 posts I figure Alan_Sony hasn't done enough research before he bought it and didn't know what kind of problems he was facing.

As to this transaction, I kind of think there was not a totally full disclosure. But, on the other hand if you're having it serviced any way, it shouldn't make much difference. To tell the buyer that it's an easy fix is not really fair disclosure.

Next question is, where do you get that model serviced? Most people won't service it from what I've heard.

[slickdick]

I will add to that, during shipping anything can happen. I've had 2 occasions where the movement did not make it well through shipping, both from reliable sellers. One was a val 23 copy movement frowm DW, the other was a 7750 modified seconds @ 6 replacement movement from Homer. Things can go wrong during shipping. I think a lot of members don't calculate this factor.

For the price paid (140 shipped) you did pretty wel considering what dealers are asking these days, Eventhough the current state of the watch.

[Guest alan_sony]

Pardon my post count (not too active on this forum), I do know the about the weakness in the movement with the additional gears involved for the second hands at six. And the movement of this watch was supposedly the one with improvements.

However, the original owner did not tell me anything about the low power reserve at all and that is the main reason why I will like a refund from him.

However, the watch was packed really really well! Wrapped in tissue, then in bubble wrap, then in a box.

[maxman]

This sounds to me like a "leason learned". or If you like "Caveat Emptor" If the seller said that the watch needed to be serviced then he was for the most part honest. If the seller knew that the watch would stop after being worn for a short period of time, he should have said just that, full disclosure. Although mentioning the service does cover a lot of ground. I have been a member here for almost a year and Im still somewhat apprehensive about buying watches on the second hand market. Sometimes It can work out really well, sometimes not so much. The one thing that I do feel was on the buyers side was a lack of experence and knowledge. I always try to find out as much as I can about said watch before making a decision to purchase. I had to learn the hard way. When I arrived here all I knew was that I wanted a Omega Po chrono. (orange bezel) I did no research and I asked no questions, I purchased the quartz version. I also got the 42mm, I would have much perferd the 45mm. I wont even wear the watch anymore. How can I? the movement Is a poster child for a fake watch. So I made a $145.00 mistake, It could have been much worse. I have sense purchased ten more reps, I dont regret a single one of them. If I were the buyer I would have It serviced,thats If the buyer really likes the watch, good luck. Mike (ps) I see that you were aware of issues and that you do have some knowledge and experence, my mistake.

[kbh]

Pardon my post count (not too active on this forum), I do know the about the weakness in the movement with the additional gears involved for the second hands at six. And the movement of this watch was supposedly the one with improvements.

However, the original owner did not tell me anything about the low power reserve at all and that is the main reason why I will like a refund from him.

However, the watch was packed really really well! Wrapped in tissue, then in bubble wrap, then in a box.

I didn't mean to be derogatory with your post count. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Since you were fully aware of what you bought, I'd have to side with the seller. You knew it needed servicing when you bought it. Why not just get it serviced and move on? You can have a fully serviced watch for equal or less than the cost of new.

By the way, Francisco (or maybe The Zigmeister?) did a detailed write up about this "new improved movement". You need to check it out.

[jmarin.72]

By the way, Francisco (or maybe The Zigmeister?) did a detailed write up about this "new improved movement". You need to check it out.

[jchurch]

I read the original forsale post and see that he mentions it needing serviced "the movement needs to be serviced to work properly and make it more reliable"

If I were looking for one of those watches I would have passed up this ad the moment I read that line. Only because I don't know about working on movements and don't have a local guy to work on them. I am sure there are some people on here that would gladly service it for you. Perhaps one should start with that or maybe asking for recomendations on where to take the rep for service in your area.

[RWG Technical]

Pardon my post count (not too active on this forum), I do know the about the weakness in the movement with the additional gears involved for the second hands at six. And the movement of this watch was supposedly the one with improvements.

However, the original owner did not tell me anything about the low power reserve at all and that is the main reason why I will like a refund from him.

However, the watch was packed really really well! Wrapped in tissue, then in bubble wrap, then in a box.

I never look at post count, its meaningless as far as I am concerned.

It could be as simple as the original owner being more physically active while wearing the watch, or maybe he wound it a few turns each morning, there can be many reasons for it working fine for him and not for you. I am not trying to make excuses for the seller, simply state the facts as I see them (I don't have a clue who the original owner is, never spoke to him).

A friend of mine can't wear an automatic, it keeps stopping on him due to inactivity.

I have had watches show up for lume alone that were working fine for the owner, only to act up when I test them after I finish the work.

Unfortunately, unless it's been serviced and everything is adjusted perfectly, it's a hit and miss as far as running is concerned, especially this particular movement.

I was not aware of any improvements to the seconds at 6 model, I have not noted anything different in the design or success after servicing since they were introduced a number of years ago.

I hope you both work something out.

[lanikai]

I have 2 out of 5 of these Daytona's still working.. they are ticking time bombs ... these are truly "luck" of the draw.. with the good luck being slim to none.

that's just thought's on this particular modded movement..

good lesson to take from this is get to the reviews of the movements before deciding on another purchase. these seconds @6 movements are really non serviceable...so buyer beware of these.. it was outlined in full in past movement reviews..

hope you find a way to settle your issues..

AC/L

[panerai153]

I'm going to weigh in with my opinion which is worth just what you pay for it.

1. If the seller knew the watch movement was problematic, and he stated that it needed to be serviced to work properly,because of the problem, but didn't disclose a problem which he was aware of then, he should work something out.

2. If you had done your homework, knowing that the A7750 movement in a seconds @6 chronometer is an accident waiting to happen, and this one already had problems with the chronometer pushers not resetting properly, then you are partially at fault. You should have passed on this one, or at least asked the seller for a more detailed explanation of why he felt the watch needed a service. You could have PM'ed any number of folks and asked about this problem. By-Tor wrote a comprehensive report on the seconds@6 Daytona, and I know The Zigmeister has written about this movement as well.

Possibly you guys could split the cost of the watch. If he agreed to refund half of your payment, that should be more than satisfactory. As far as repairs, I would forget that. In the first place a complete service of that movement, if you can get someone to do it, plus postage both ways is gonig to be way more than the watch is worth. Also, even with a service, there is no guarantee that the watch will survive the trip home, or run for any extended period of time.That's the real problem with movements that have been "Bastardized" to try to make them do somethig they were never intended to do. ETA 7750's used correctly are pretty good movements, but they are by design a seconds@9 movement. Another is the 2836-2 that's set up as a GMT with the Correct hand stack for Rolex GMTII's. I realize there is a big market for some of these watches like Seconds@6 Daytonas, and CHS GMT Masters, but realistically, if the watch is going to become a paperweight in 2 days -6 months, is it worth it?

Just my Dos Centavos

Arthur

[TeeJay]

I have had watches show up for lume alone that were working fine for the owner, only to act up when I test them after I finish the work.

It's funny you should say that, as when I installed a new dial in my vintage sub, the movement suddenly began to run at -10 minutes per day I'm not too fussed, as I'll just transplant in a new movement from a donor purchase, but it was really wierd that the movement suddenly develop the miss-timing Oh well

[vintagerolex]

Now, gentlemen, I ask for you help.

I have asked for a refund from SliverG as if I had known that the watch had a power reserve problem, I would not have bought it. SliverG asked me to post this issue on the forum and ask for opinions if he should proceed with a refund.

If you guys do agree that I should get a refund, thank you! If you guys do not agree that I should get a refund, guess I may have to fix this beauty up!

Thanks guys for your help!

I think that you are owed a refund.

[Guest alan_sony]

I have to thank SliverG for giving me a partial refund. We have met with a resolution that both of us felt reasonable.

Edited December 4, 2009 by alan_sony

[maxman]

I have to thank SliverG for giving me a partial refund. We have met with a resolution that both of us felt reasonable.

I dont think that SliverG finds this reasonable. Sounds like his hand was forced, I hope that was not the case. Going through PP Is a huge no no around here. PP disputes are only exceptable (maybe) after every avenue has been exhausted and even then not always.

[SilverG]

I have to thank SliverG for giving me a partial refund. We have met with a resolution that both of us felt reasonable.

Why did you edit your original post? You were affraid that everyone saw that you threatened to Paypal dispute me? Well he DID guys! He threatened to dispute through paypal. I have the screenshots of our PM's to prove it. Never do business with this noob again. He haggles on the price, lowballs till no extent, then complains and wastes time. I have been a trusted member over here, Repgeek and RWI and I have never ever mislead anyone and have only trouble-free transactions. You should ask ANYONE who has ever bought from me. Ask over on Repgeek too.

I dont think that SliverG finds this reasonable. Sounds like his hand was forced, I hope that was not the case. Going through PP Is a huge no no around here. PP disputes are only exceptable (maybe) after every avenue has been exhausted and even then not always.

I don't find this reasonable. I WAS forced. Threatening me with Paypal is a big no-no, but this guy seems to think he is above that. I hope everyone will reconsider their options before doing business with this guy again.

[maxman]

Sorry to see something like this happen. I thought OP was trying to handle this In the proper manor. Going to PP was not the right thing to do. Should have tried to work something out at all cost, to bad really

[RWG Technical]

So the truth comes out.

Threats, especially PP ones are not tolerated around here, totally unaceptable behaviour.

Information noted.

[SilverG]

So the truth comes out.

Threats, especially PP ones are not tolerated around here, totally unaceptable behaviour.

Information noted.

You know what? Here are the screenshots from my PM's. Can we get a mod to ban this guy? I hope NOBODY does any transaction again with him in the future, as it seems he WILL be coming back. I hope he proved his cowardice and idiocracy for everyone to know what an idiot he really is.

[RWG Technical]

You did not lie during the transaction, as I already explained, Power Reserve is meaningless, but I guess my original comments which rebuffed all of his claims were ignored.

Hopefully the Mods will do the right thing.