panerai153 Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I recently tried to find correct snowflake hands for my Tudor 9411. Apparently, several years ago the watch was sent to Rolex San Francisco, which is a privately owned Rolex Service center. At that time, they replaced the bezel insert and the hands.Unfortunately, they didn't have the correct Snowflake hands so they were replaced with Mercedes hands. I was able to find a source for the Snowflake hands from a member of the Rolex forum. He also had lots of other Rolex and Tudor parts and a watchmaker on staff. I sent my watch to him a little over two weeks ago. It's finished and he sent some photos. What was done: Full service Replace hands with genuine matching Snowflake hands genuine crystal genuine 93150 bracelet w/ Tudor clasp Here is the before and after And After Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Looks awesome A! The hands make all the difference!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Congrats Arthur.. It is truly a beautiful piece..!!! the blue is magnificent !! AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I don't think my love for the 9411 is any secret And this is a fine specimen, especially after the hand swap! A fine piece for a fine gent. Congrats, A! Cheers! //ubi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyberetta Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Very nice example! Not many this nice around...and you have to love the blue color! Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anguz Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 She is a sexy one pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 @ panerai 153, Arthur, I am interested in the sequence of events when the Rx Repair Centre changed the hands. Was this something pointed out prior to the service, or was a change notified during, to which you approved, or did the watch just come back fitted with new hands? I'm thinking here of the ramifications to the value of a piece where any modification from original, is just presented as a "Faite Accompli" I assume service centres would have their "I"'s dotted and "T"'s crossed, but in this litigious world, I am wondering how strong their case may be? Am interested in you view and interpretation. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Fantastic to see it restored to full appearance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Beautiful Arthur. To say I am envious would be an understatement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted January 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 @ panerai 153, Arthur, I am interested in the sequence of events when the Rx Repair Centre changed the hands. Was this something pointed out prior to the service, or was a change notified during, to which you approved, or did the watch just come back fitted with new hands? I'm thinking here of the ramifications to the value of a piece where any modification from original, is just presented as a "Faite Accompli" I assume service centres would have their "I"'s dotted and "T"'s crossed, but in this litigious world, I am wondering how strong their case may be? Am interested in you view and interpretation. Offshore Sorry I couldn't answer sooner, but here goes. First the watch was owned by someone else when the hands were changed. RSC San Francisco did the work. From the looks of the hands, it was a while back. My watch is being returned from service, and I don't know the dates, but the service person who is and independent watchmaker said there were two service dates inside the caseback.This is speculation on my part, but after several conversations with Tudor owners on the Rolex Forums, a similar pattern developed. In a couple of cases, their watch was sent to a RSC for service. Of the ones in question, one was in Canada and the other two were here in the USA. In all three cases, the owners were told that the Snowflake hands were not available, but the RSC would replace the hands with Tudor Mercedes hands. The owners had the choice and were informed beforehand. In two cases the owners refused and the snowflake hands were left on the watches. In the third case, the owner agreed and they were replaced with Tudor Mercedes hands. This was the case with my watch according to the previous owner. In quite a few cases, especially several years ago when the RSC's were routinely servicing 1680's 1665's and other vintage models, original dials and hands were routinely replaced with service dials and hands. In many cases, if the owner was not a collector, he didn't care, his Rolex was returned "As good as new".What happened was of course the collectible value of these watches was greatly diminished.As time went on and folks begin to realize that the vintage Rolex models had collectable value, more attention was paid to keeping the watch as original as possible. In order to do that, you had to specifically tell the RSC NOT to change the dial, hands bezel/insert. Rolex Service "rules" were different depending on who you talked to and which RSC you were using. One thing that actually happened to me, with a 1680 that I sent to RSC Dallas way back in the 1980's, was their refusal to service the watch unless they were allowed to change the Crown,tube and crystal. The crystal was pretty beat up with a lot of scratches and a few nicks and gouges, as the watch was my everyday watch. I was a farmer, so it got lots of abuse. I could see changing the crystal, but I didn't understand the reason for the Crown/tube change. I called the service center and questioned the need for those changes. Their reply was that they were concerned about the water resistance with the old crown/tube and crystal. They did not want the watch to be serviced and then not be water tight. They were adament about this to the point that they told me that they would not service the watch unless I agreed to the crown/tube, crystal replacement. I agreed, but I still to this day think that it was unnecressary and a way to charge for more parts. During the course of the conversation, they asked me about changing the hands and dial, which I said no, the old dial and hands were perfectly OK. Generally, I believe that each RSC acts as it's own little kingdom. Some will ask you what you want done or not done, others will just do it unless specifically instructed not to do it. Today most collectors send their Rolex watches to the RSC personally, however lots of folks take their Rolex to their local AD who forwards the watch to the nearest RSC. They specify a "Service". If RSC has a question, they may contact the jeweler about something. IF you aren't specific with the jeweler, like having in writing and signed by both you and the jeweler, what you want done, they are going to do what they think needs to be done. With most people this is absolutely OK, however most collectors want to specify what is done or not done.Personally, I would never, ever hand a watch over to an AD of any brand and let them "Send it off to be repaired". I don't want any surprises when it gets back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 That is a beautiful watch, Arthur. The hands and dial match perfectly and look fantastic. And with that new 93150, you're set to go. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Thanks for the clarification Arthur. It just appeared to me that a RSC could leave itself open to a claim, if it just reinstalled other items. I had experience with an Omega sent years ago to the Service centre, No quote, job done, $900 thanks. It was pay up or no watch, just about hostage taking IMO! Someone would sue in this day and age! O/S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Yet another reason why I like replicas! We have watchsmiths who do amazing work, stand behind it, and are straight up about the work they are going to do before they do the job! That's just highway robbery O/S! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 There was a big discussion on the Rolex Forum ,I believe, about a week or so ago about service prices and where to go.Incredible prices! It's nothing to spend over a grand on a service at one of the RSC's. If they change anything it's extra, and guess what else? Parts removed are considered "Trade in" on new parts, so you don't get your old crystal or crown/tube,insert, etc. I suppose if you insisted, they would return your parts, but you would pay full price for any parts they installed.Several independent watchmakers were discussed as well, some of their prices are as high as RSC's prices. The difference is they will work on the older vintage watches, usually the RSC's won't. Their (RSC) claim is parts are not available, which may be true, but most watches require a clean, oil and regulate to run fine for a few more years, not a complete overhaul.I suppose if I had a really nice Double Red SD worth 20+k, I would be looking for the best service available no matter what the price, but when you consider the vast majority of Rolex watches are not collectible quality, or vintage, some of the prices bandied about were ridiculous. Quite a lot of the forum participants thought so as well. Thanks for all the compliments. I really think this Tudor looks especially nice. I think this one will be around for a long time.I'll post more and better photos as soon as it gets home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the clarification Arthur. It just appeared to me that a RSC could leave itself open to a claim, if it just reinstalled other items. I had experience with an Omega sent years ago to the Service centre, No quote, job done, $900 thanks. It was pay up or no watch, just about hostage taking IMO! Someone would sue in this day and age! O/S 1) Put on a balaclava. 2) Pay him a visit at 3 am in the night and poo on his doormat. 3) Stick a match in his buzzer in ringing position while he is sleeping. 4) Ready some vintage rotten eggs and a lard loaf of remarkable size. He will still call the police, but he will have to explain to them what happened stinking of sulphur, with melted pork lard on his head and his slippers barked with crap. It sounds like a good plan. Edited January 26, 2010 by Crab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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